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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
A bit OT, sorry.


After lurking and posting a bit in this forum, I've learned quite a bit about what makes good video and what makes bad video. I've learned about film vs. video, 3:2 and its inverse, etc... As a consequence of this, I've progressed from an interlaced player to an IScan Pro, to an HTPC, and lately to an NRS.


One lesson learned from this is "garbage in, garbage out."


That said, I'm now looking around to get a camcorder (my wife and I are starting a family!). I'm interrested in being able to create DVDs which look good when presented on the big screen (i.e. an FP setup).


I'm curious whether it's possible to capture in film mode, so that the player can do 3:2 and resolve full detail during playback. After dealing with video sources (and finally getting DCDi to help), I'm quite keen on avoiding it due to combing, loss of detail, etc...


Are there any consumer packages/methods/recommendations which people may have? I'm open to all suggestions.


Moderator: I'm not quite sure where to post this, so feel free to move it.


-Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
In the end, I'd like to present it on DVD, but I've no objections to storing it on either DVD, disc, or MiniDV.


I have seen a few cameras which are supposedly progressive scan. IDK whether that's 480p/60 or 480p/24, and if it is 480p/24 are there any mastering systems which will spit out 480i for encoding to DVD?


-Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
That does look kinda neat. I'll check that out.


I'm still interrested in anything that actually exists - if I wait too long, we'll have kids by the time some of these products come to market :D.


-Jon
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hmmm... unfortunately, that camera looks to be a bit of vaporware right now.


I guess what I'm looking for is something which can record in 480p/24, and an NLE or such which will do 3:2 when it enocdes for DVD.


-Jon
 

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again,


It depends on how you do it. If you get a camera that's already creating a mini DVD disk, then that's that.


If you transfer the data through firewire to a computer, and then burn it onto DVD+RW, then there's also a question of how you're playing it (is it a specific player, or should it work on any player)?


I don't currently know of any way to take a recording, transfer it to a computer, use Faroudja deinterlacing and burn the 480p/24 to DVD.


The only way to do it today is to transfer the video as is. If your recorder has firewire + Faroudja chip (e.g., Philips standalone recorder), then it should do it all by itself. i.e., get a Philips 985 recorder, and have it convert the source to progressive internally (video mode DCDi) and it'll cut the DVD+RW progressively. Then, people with a good progressive player will also gain PQ from this.


That's probably the best way to do it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
oferlaor,


Interresting idea re: the philips 985. I would need to, however, edit the footage before I throw it onto DVD, so I'm looking for a solution which involves my PCs. Although, I guess I could send the edited stream from my PC to the philips via firewire, although I've never heard of anyone doing that.


I think the key thing I'm looking for is 1) the ability to capture in 480p/24, and 2) to edit/cut/etc in 480p/24, and 3) to burn it to disc in any format which works (i.e. have the encoder convert 480p/24 to 480i via 3:2, or just burn the progressive frames).


I like the idea of using "film mode" (even though the source is video, it makes no difference if I can capture in 480p/24) due to the clarity it produces. Watching deinterlaced video just doesn't cut the mustard if you compare it to a good film source.


-Jon
 

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Maybe this will help your decision. Check out our FireStore product at www.firestore.com


Firestore with our DTE technology allows you to record to a firewire hard disk from any DV video camera in any NLE format (Avid express, Premier, Final cut Pro to name a few) the advantage to this is that you eliminate the capture time required when capturing and renduring via a computer capture card. Plus you don't need tape so the only recording limit is the size of your hard drive. You simply plug the HD into your computer Firewire port and presto all of your video is stored in edit ready file format that you chose. You can edit immediately and record to DVD or you can play it back from the Hard disk using the FireStore. Check it out.
 

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Shaun,


First, how much does this product cost? It looks like a very professional product, which I don't think Jon will fork up the cash for.


Also, you'd need to carry a bulky box with you, which is not really what I think Jon had in mind.


What Jon basically needs is a video capture card (or software) capable of deinterlacing and converting to [email protected] and then feed it back to a DVD recorder.


The closest thing to what you're looking for is the Holo3DGraph.


Two major problems to overcome:


1. The unit doesn't allow recording. I know it's supposed to be possible using a Dgraph implementation, but you might need someone to talk you through how to do it. It's not a "press this button" type of solution.


2. It accepts SDI, but camcorders don't have that. You can use a firewire to SDI converter, but it'll cost ya... Otherwise, you can use SVideo output (albeit without a fully digital solution).


If you can get around these two problems (mostly the first one), you have a clear winner.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I'm actually looking for a video camera which will capture in 480p/24.


The reason I want this is:


1) 480p/24 is "film mode" regardless of whether the source is a video camera or a true film reel.


2) If I can convert from 480p/24 to 480i during the authoring process by introducing 3:2 pulldown, then I can burn in in 480i. Note that edits, etc... were all done in 480p/24 - only before it is burned to disc do I apply 3:2 to produce a 480i disc.


3) All consumer players which output progressive do a reasonable (if not fantastic) job of recognizing the 3:2 cadence in a 480i source, reconstructing the 24fps, and outputting that as 480p/60. Thus, I can preserve the full detail in each frame from my capture (on a camcorder) all the way to the end display (a TV or FP setup at my parents and friends).


What I'm looking to AVOID is CAPTURING in 480i/60 (in "video mode"), as this introduces interlaced frames which can not be _perfectly_ reconstructed.


e.g. Watch football on your big screen. Even with DCDi, you'll see combing during periods of motion due to the inability to use the interlaced fields to reconstruct an original, complete frame. Since different frames are sampled for each field, it is _impossible_ to reconstruct a fully detailed frame. This is why I want to _capture_ in 480p/24, and convert to 480i just before burning the disc. That way, when it is played in a consumer progressive DVD player, the deinterlacers will reconstruct the original detailed frames almost flawlessly.


See what I mean? Or am I crazy? Or do you see what I mean, but I'm crazy anyway?


-Jon
 

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The FireStore has an SRP of $995.00 it also has a field kit which comes with a case (bag with belt loop) and battery with charger. I suggest that you check out this camera from Panasonic. I think it is what you are looking for.

http://www.panasonic.com/PBDS/subcat...ag-dvx100.html
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
FE,


That's the kind of camera I am looking for. I'm also interrested in a full editing solution, but I don't want a $$$ professional system - that's another catch. I have no problem investing in good hardware, but software changes too often. I've never seen any "prosumer" software which indicated it would allow mastering in 480p/24, and would perform telecine before burning to disc.


It's kinda a mixed blessing being on this forum. If only I could go back to the days of my 20" CRT via composite!


Thanks all,


-Jon
 

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I think you can do this with Final Cut Pro. Maybe you could contact the local Final Cut Pro user group in NYC, I think there is a listing on Apples website.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
FE,


Thanks - I'll definitely check it out. Is what I'm thinking of logical? Does it make sense? Video sources for me have always been a source of artifacts, and are generally much less enjoyable when compared to film based sources. I'm hoping to avoid mastering/authoring in video mode.


-Jon
 

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This does make sense to me that you would want to acquire video in a progressive format. I am actually quite surprised that there aren't more cameras on the market like this at the consumer level. I bet there will be many more in the near future and hopefully the price will come down so I can buy one for myself before I start having kids. :)
 
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