OT, need rec for best solid state camcorder

tzucc, the Red isn't shipping - not even a working prototype so for the next year plus it will be officially vaporware. There are plenty of cameras that easily surpass $20K but it isn't the camera that kills you - it is the accessories. You certainly wouldn't want to put a $6K camera on a $30 photo tripod from WalMart.


FYI, the Panasonic AG-HVX200 that wjchan mentioned is one you have seen - I brought it over to the meet. I just got my hard drive for it but I haven't been able to shoot some righteous footage since I got the hard drive. My wife is dialated and that means I cannot take off for the coast or Yosemite or anything.


What kind of budget are you looking at? HD or SD? There are also lots of miniDV cameras that can shoot to an external hard drive like the Focus Enhancements Firestore series.


Beware of a few things on these little HD camera popping up now - they have displays that are 0.2 megapixel, which means it will be impossible to focus them manually and autofocus isn't perfect - especially at HD resolutions. Now, for the real back breaker - the HD1 in that link will record 21 minutes of HD on a 1GB SD card - sounds really impressive vs. the 60 seconds of HD I can get on a 1GB card with my HVX200. That translates to a 6.35 mbit data rate. For standard definition, that camera records at 640x480, not the full NTSC resolution of 720x480 and based on the 2 hrs per GB claim, that puts SD onto the drive at 1.11 mbit! Even with MPEG4 that sounds pretty low and I seriously doubt they have top notch encoders since it has to be done in real time.

The 8GB cards are tough to find, but I hear a 16GB card will be coming soon and that might make me switch back to P2 vs. the Firestore for much of the work I plan on doing with it. Still, to get those record times, you need to shoot in 720p24N, not 720p24.


The short recording time from the HVX200 is because it records in 4:2:2 color space at 100mbit in DVCPro HD format. The HDV cameras record onto a miniDV tape, which is much cheaper to use but is limited to 25mbit data rate and when you recompress that the quality suffers quite a bit.


The Qualia 002 is a great camera in the prosumer class - a group of cameras that are consumer oriented but good enough that low budget filmmakers use them for professional use. As they are still in the consumer marketing category, they are bound by the rules for that market - low cost to operate, ability to shoot long periods of time (for videographers and such) and simple to operate. Cameras that are completely pro grade are typically aimed at people who used to shoot with film and a 16 minute cap on recording time is actually a step up from shooting 35mm film. The workflow with P2 is pretty damn nice.


Unfortunately, the HVX200 is a complex camera - sort of like a Canon SLR. You can pick one up and start shooting without knowing a lot but if you want to make the thing really shine you are going to need to know what the hell you are doing. The prosumer units are the same way, but they don't have the options of the HVX200 so they aren't quite as complex. This one has been referred to as a swiss army video camera since it can pretty much do everything. I don't recall the exact number, but I remember reading that with all the frame rate options, progressive vs. interlaced, anamorphic or not, HD or NTSC, etc it has 72 different combinations it could shoot in.


At any rate, if you wanted one, you should be able to record for 40 minutes in 720p24N with the current P2 cards and 80 with the next ones coming out soon. While they are expensive, flash prices are continuing to plummet while speed and capacity keeps going up. When they get fast enough to record the data without a RAID system you should see a major drop in price - figure a couple of years for that, though. The firestore FS-100 hard drive option is about the size of a 3.5" hard drive and will record 100 minutes at any resolution and frame rate you want. They can be daisy chained for uninterrupted recording. One added benefit of P2 cards is the ability to shoot with a pre-record memory. Say you are watching for whales or filming a guy standing on a bridge. You can put it on a tripod and wait until the splat then hit record and not only catch everything from there on, but the previous 7 seconds before you hit the record button (I think it is 7 seconds, but I am not sure). This means you don't burn tape and have the chance of a prime moment pass by while you swap tapes.


The HVX200 is the best camera at its price point and below and in some instances above it as well. It is a swiss army knife and can do pretty much everything, but it isn't for everyone - nothing is.