OT: Will the PS3 kill Bluray or save it?

Ahh, but you're forgetting something, though. The $1000 players that are on the street now (or will be soon) are the high-end machines for early adopters. By Christmas, there will almost certainly be several Blu-Ray players close to $500, if not less. Now, your instinct is to say, "OK, but why would anyone NOT buy a PS3, then? It's like getting a free game machine!!!". But, this whole thing has already happened with DVD and the PS2!


When the PS2 hit the market at $299, it was also price-subsidized by Sony and priced quite cheaply compared to a lot of DVD players at the time. Yet, people still bought DVD players and the other manufacturers didn't stop making them because of the pricing pressure. Why? Because not everybody WANTS a PlayStation!


As a DVD player, the PS2 wasn't really that elegant. You had to buy a remote (a crappy one at that - at least compared to most dedicated players' remotes), it didn't have a display, and it didn't look nice sitting on the shelf (compared to a shiny black DVD player, anyway). That, and it was a game machine - some people just don't want them no matter how great the "deal" is. The PS3 will probably have some of the same disadvantages compared to nice dedicated-purpose BD players.


To be fair, there are other issues that make this whole deal a bit more of a crap-shoot than I'm making it out to be. Blu-Ray has competitive market forces (DVD and HD-DVD) that the original DVD didn't have. When DVD came out, the only way most people could watch movies was on VHS, and it was easy to show people how superior DVD looked and sounded. Without a rigged demo, it's not as easy with HD-DVD and Blu-Ray to show superiority over DVD. Most digital displays (720p) won't even show that much difference! Probably the worst thing is that DVD looks awesome to average Joe.


So, who knows how it will play out? I don't have much disposable income right now so I won't be buying either before Christmas. But, I would bet that the PS3 will definitely help Blu-Ray. The questions are:

1. "How much?" and

2. "Will it be enough?"


SC

Well, I was wrong, the price was announced today, $500 for the budget version $600 for the high end version of the PS3, and it is coming Nov 17, whether that is just Japan or worldwide who knows?


Info here:
http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/05/09/ps...nch_on_17_nov/

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/05/09/so...ys_up_ps2_psp/


I'd hate to be a Blu-Ray manufacturer trying to sell their $1500 players right now, sony is pushing that their player will do 1080P.


Some info on the Gran Turismo demo.

http://www.tgdaily.com/2006/05/09/so...an_turismo_hd/

Yes, unlike the previous rumors, both units WILL have the BD drive - dunno if I'd pop a hundred bucks for an extra 40 gig of HD, but there will probably turn out to be more extras included in the price of the "good" one. And I don't think they'll have any trouble selling all they can ship - at least not until next summer.


ecrabb beat me to the punch, tho I'd disagree with some others - as I remember, the PS2 was pretty close to the same price of dvd players, and you got a pretty nice gaming system with it, for free if you want to look at it that way. But go to the Secrets site, if the review is still there, the PS2 was actually a fairly crappy dvd player. Would expect the same level of functionality of the included BD player.


Think of Sony as being more like your local heroin dealer - you buy the PS3, then when a compelling title or two come out as sell-thru, you get them, pretty soon you will be sick of what will likely be a very mediocre user interface for playing and watching your new discs, and then, VIOLA, the standalone makers will sell you another BD device.


If HD was shipping with the 360s, that would be something different. At this price point, Sony will be ok.


Marc - didn't follow? if Sony does it right, this will kill Blu-Ray? If it works on my crt, I'll be buying it. If the authentication remains as draconian as early rumors - that will kill it - is that what you're hoping?

Whether we like it or not if you want HD-DVD (BR and HD-DVD) you're probably going to end up with one of each or a combo player. If one format does fail it may take several years and to have access to all the content you may want then having a player for each format will be the only way to go. If Toshiba gets China involved and HD-DVD players start selling for $149.00 then everyone with a HD display is going to be tempted.


Sony turned the front projection market upside down with the Ruby! They even hung the Qualia owners out to dry (their own customers), so significantly undercutting their Blue Ray allies shouldn't surprise anyone including Panasonic, Samsung and Pioneer!


The problem with the PS3 is that it will be fairly late to the game (no pun intended). By November there may be HD-DVD players for $299.00. All this competition should be good for the end user with the only wrinkle being that we'll probably need two players, but who cares since many of us already own multiple DVD players!


Cheers,


Grant

Quote:
I look at how Sony has been doing business in the past. The PS2 had a junk laser in it. The failure rate was astronomical, to say the least. Just google for PS2 laser repair. This is typical for Sony's optical pickups. Sony will sell you DVD and CD burners plus media only to turn around and make this same content un-playable on their own stand-alone players. The PS2 fiasco was so bad that Sony was forced to honor an extended warranty. This is NOT their policy. Usually they'll deny that a problem exists, even if they have an in-house service bulletin on said problem. I have been hung up on when quoting bulletin numbers.


The PSP was released with many desirable features. Then Sony sat back to see what people did with it. Finally, through "firmware upgrades" those features were disbled so you could go to Sony and PAY them for the same "Feature" as an add-on.


So what makes anyone think that the PS3 and BlueRay will suddenly be any different? I suspect the same old BS. Short laser lifespans, hidden "firmware" upgrades, and horrible warranty battles to get that expensive laser replaced.

I wouldn't even waste my money on the hard drive either. See the PS2 for why.


ONE game. It took some creative hackers to make use of the HD to actually store games you own on the drive. I did this just to prolong that POS laser in my PS2.

Yes, I legally own all 4 titles for it. I actually got one just for Gran Tourismo 4.

Awesome game.


Sony's answer to the HD hack was to release a PS2 "Slim" version that could not accept a HD. Gee..... many, many people had optical drive failure within hours to days. Several hardware modifications were/are sold on the web NOT by Sony to fix the design flaw and save the Laser.

Yes, you can take it to Sony, but they won't fix the flaw. Only replace the bad chip again.


So yeah, I'll blow $500 or more on a PS3 Blu-Ray box that will very likely die 3 days past warranty. No thanks, I'll wait it out at least a year, probably 2. Someone else can pay big $$ to be Sony's R&D department.


But it's ok... Sony continues to thrive on their name, and the fact that people will buy anything. Sony used to make incredibly good products. What happened????

Nowadays I'll buy Samsung instead. I miss my legendary Sony quality. It's all gone.


Do I seem bitter or biased? Well, yes. I loved early Sony stuff. I have worked with Sony professional since 84. But things changed for the worse. I have no respect left for this company. (and some others) But I do hope they will eventually pull their heads out of their posteriors and make Sony famous gain. ( And no.... not in court. See the CD fiasco. )


Take it as you will. Most will rush right out and buy anyway, as long as it's shiny and promises something new. Only time will tell for sure.


Marc

Like Marc, I'm really annoyed with Sony as a company - especially their cheap consumer stuff.


By November, I'm hearing there should be an HD-DVD player for $300 street. The $400 X-Box 360 may also be $300 by then. So, for the same price as the PS 3, I can get two devices that are likely superior to the single Sony device. I think I'd rather do that.


Alas, it will depend on how many movies are available and what the prices are, though for each system's content, and most important to me, which one is most practical and useable with a CRT.


For some reason, I think this war is going to play out in months, not years. I'm not saying one or the other won't still be around, but the war will be over by next year this time. I guess I'm making a prediction.


SC

I'm pretty sure Marc and others are primarily referring to products in the CE space. There really have been some glaring examples of horrible quality control, poor product design, intentionally crippled products, and non-compliance with industry standards (how long did it take Sony to acknowledge MP3?, MemoryStick?).


On the other hand, there are other divisions of Sony which are doing excellent work - pro video for one. The CineAlta digital cinema cameras have really jump-started digital cinema acquisition. Even in the CE segment, some Sony products are best-in-class - many of the DV and HDV cameras are excellent cameras for the money and very competitive.


Overall, though - in the consumer market, the company's name and products do not have the prestige they once had. The reasons for that are simple: quality and price-point - they're simply not a "premium" brand as they once were. Then, combine that with the crippling relationship Sony Entertainment inflicts on Sony Electronics.


You can debate the reasons (internal/external) for the decline in overall quality and brand prestige, because the same forces have negatively impacted other CE companies. But, the reality is that Sony, as a consumer brand, is not what it once was - which just might have something to do with its presently abysmal financial situation.


SC