AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Has anyone heard / bought the Outlaw LCR's?

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/lcr.html


I like using three speakers across with the ability to turn one horizontally.


Only found one review of them and it was positive

http://www.hometheatermag.com/compactspeakers/708out/


I am considering the Outlaw's and then match them up with some other brands in-ceiling (don't think that should be a big issue if I match)....


Alternatively I am thinking about the Aperion 6Ts with the 6C and four of their in-ceilings for the rears. That will run me around $2,600 MSRP


The other two brands that have been recommended are Dynaudio and Atlantic, but they are running a little more expensive.


Setup -- Room is 12W X 24L, SC-07, 90% movies in designated HT room


So I know this is very subjective, but what would you guys do? Get one of the above or something different. As I have told a few of you I live in Alaska and shipping back and forth will not be an option. I will also not be able to listen to these speakers since there isn't a store around. So as much as I hate it I have to buy these based on input from others. Exception to this is Paradigm and B&W that is carried locally, but at a price - quite a high one...


Thanks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #2 ·
38 Views but no thoughts



If anyone reading this has heard the Axiom set specifically the M80's feel free to chime in as well. The Aperion is just a tad over my budget with shipping ($500 up here) and the Axiom comes with that included....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab /forum/post/0


If anyone reading this has heard the Axiom set specifically the M80's feel free to chime in as well. The Aperion is just a tad over my budget with shipping ($500 up here) and the Axiom comes with that included....

I think the world of Axiom's M80s but then I'm biased because I own 3 of them L/C/R. However, I can't know if you will like them or not. If you liked the B&Ws and the Paradigm Studio 100s then the Axiom M80s might be for you. Have you checked the Hearing Things subforum over at the Axiom forum to see if anyone in your area is offering a demo. At least that would give you a chance of hearing them even if not in your own room.


Mixing another brand surrounds should you go with your first choice shouldn't be any problem in that large of a room especially if your mostly watching movies. Personally I don't care for in ceiling surround speakers. Just to high up for directional queues for me but that's just me.


Also if you are partial to speakers that can be turned on their side to use as a center you might want to check out Emotiva. I've not heard them but some people really seem to like them and they have a couple speakers that can be used as mains or centers. Also I think you would get much better surround sound by going with there surround speakers.


Good luck,

Dean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks Grunt and Shady. I will go back and listen to the B&W and Paradigm and then see about the Axiom.


Considering the limited feedback on Outlaw I am probably going to leave those alone.


That leaves the speakers below as very recommended by multiple different people


Axiom -- 80's / 60's, VP150v2 Center

Aperion 6Ts, 630C -- high-end option considering the price

Emotiva ERM 6.3 (same speaker for L/R/C)

Energy RC-70, RC-LCR ( decent price right now)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts
A couple more things to consider.


I believe Aperion will pay return shipping (not sure if that applies to AK) if you are within the 30 day window so once you've narrowed the choices down you might want to try them anyway since it might only cost you a little time. Also Axiom's return shipping rates are reasonable about $30 each for towers (again not sure if that applies to AK).


Don't discount Outlaw just because no one in this forum responded. Every forum has it's favorite brands plus some brand's owners just don't frequent AVS as some of the fanboyism from other brands can get pretty bad around here some times. I think outlaw has it's own forum which you might want to check out.


Of the choices you posted I would go with the Emotiva system especially if you can use their ERD-1 surround speakers. Despite being a happy Axiom owner my preference for 3 identical speakers up front would lean me toward the 3 x ERM-6.3 fronts vs the 2 x M80/M60 + 1 x VP150 fronts. Plus my preference for multi-polar surrounds.


If you haven't already listened to a setup that uses a different horizontal center from the L/R mains and see if you can demo that against a setup using 3 identical speakers across the front when you go back and listen to the B&W and Paradigms. Some people aren't as susceptible to noticing the tonal differences between different designs which would leave more possibilities open if you could use a horizontal center different than the mains.


One last thingI didn't notice you mention a subwoofer. With 90% HT you are going to want a subwoofer for sure. With a good subwoofer you might also consider trying some good bookshelf speakers for up front. I've compared the M80s + EP500 against the M22s + EP500 in my 21 x 13 x 10 room and found that the M22s + sub are about 95% as effective as the M80s + sub. OTOH I much prefer the M80s alone for 2 channel music but at 90% HT it might not be an issue for you. Adding bookshelf speakers to the mix might open up a lot more speaker choices and still be able to have 3 identical bookshelf speakers across the front.


An advantage to using bookshelf speakers + subwoofer is that it allows you to place the L/C/R speakers for best imaging while placing the subwoofer for best bass response. Often with towers placement is a compromise between imaging and bass not to mention getting in the way of the screen.


Sorry to be giving you more choices rather than helping you narrow them down but in the long run time spent now selecting the speakers that are right for you will pay off in the long run.


Cheers,

Dean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Dean - I take any advice so no reason to apologize. I don't "need" the speakers right away, but it does kind of alter how I build things so really trying to settle this.......


In regards to sub - I am not mentioning it since I have a sub for right now. It is 12inch but only 150W so it will have to be upgraded, but I have yet to use it fully so going to set everything up with it and test it out. Then I am going to borrow a good sub from a local store and see how much of a difference there is. If I really feel / hear the difference (which I think I will) then it is an easy sell with both me and the wife and I will order a top-notch sub. If no difference then hey I just keep the one I have



So with that said I am definitely going to have a full 7.1


Your room size is almost the same as mine hmmm I had kind of discarded bookshelves not sure now if I should put them back in the mix.


The outlaws are on the upper end of what I can afford so might be better off anyways...



Thanks!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
8,744 Posts
One thing about the Emotivas: they are all four ohm speakers, so make sure your receiver can handle that load. Just a reminder.


One more thing: if you went with the ERM 8.3's, I wouldn't want to get a center that is less than the 6.3. A lot of programming get sent to the center nowadays, it's crucial that it can hang with the rest of your system, especially since so much center material is dialogue. You don't want to strain to hear what people are saying, and you also don't want to limit the rest of your system's potential because of the center's shortcomings. It might not matter though if the system is properly configured and you never really crank it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab /forum/post/0


Grunt one more question -- so you think it is better to go with 3 - 6.3's than 2 8.3's with a different Center?

3 x 6.3 would be my personal preference for 90% HT based on my experience. I am very aware of even small tonal differences between speakers but not everyone is. More theoreticallysince so much of the front soundstage is shared and/or pans back and forth between the three speakers it makes since to want all of them to be the same for the same reason you don't see people using different L/R speakers for stereo listening.


Horizontal center speakers are a design compromise to allow them to fit more easily below or above the screen. That doesn't mean most don't come close enough to matching the mains that many people don't notice, but if you end up buying speakers w/o being able to demo them first I would hedge my bets and try to eliminate the possibility that you will be bothered by tonal differences between different horizontal and vertical speakers. However, based on the feedback I've gotten from most people they aren't bothered by the tonal differences so it's really a personal preference.


The reason that matching surrounds to your mains isn't as important is because they don't share as much audio between them as the L/C/R do and because the further apart speakers are the harder it becomes to detect tonal differences. However, if you're into 5.1 music the general recommendation is 5 identical speakers all the way around, but most people including myself don't do that. Me, because I prefer the dispersion of multi-polar surround speakers more.


If your local dealer will let you or you have some friends who have them try borrowing a couple towers and a couple bookshelf speakers pair them up with your subwoofer and have a listen for yourself since listening in your own room with your own equipment is the best test. If not have the dealer demo some matching towers and bookshelf speakers in there showroom both crossed over at 80Hz and see if you think the tower will be worth the extra money.


Personally I think tower speakers, except when rooms start getting real big, are a waste of money for HT. Since most people cross over their HT speakers at 80Hz they are really just turning there full range tower into a big expensive bookshelf speaker. Ok that's not total true but in small to medium rooms the advantage of using towers + sub over bookshelves + sub isn't worth the extra money IMO. For the same money as towers + a sub you could get better quality bookshelves + a better quality sub.


Most internet direct companies and some local dealers will allow in home demos. If wondering what your missing by not having towers for mains is going to eat at you then you owe it to yourself to find a way to demo each so you'll be sure your really getting what you want. If you went with the Emotivas, for example, you could order 3 x 6.3s and 2 x 8.3s and try them out for yourself. Then ship back the pair that offer the least value (check their trial period and return shipping cost to see if this option is viable) For peace of mind I would try to find a way to do a comparison.


Cheers,

Dean
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
The Outlaw LCR's are made by Snell Acoustics and are based on the Snell LCR7. They are very high quality and cheaper then the LCR7 (dont have the snell name). You can find more info on the Snell website. The emo brand scares me a little and if it were my money I would buy a more proven design. But hey that is just IMO so get what you feel would work best for you.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thanks Grunt -- funny thing is that I think I am narrowing down the list and then Atlantic Technology gets added to the list through emails / PM's



It might be that I am not getting as much bang for the buck, but I am pretty set on the floorstanders. Maybe it is pure ignorance, but I really like how it looks and the once I have heard I liked...... I also do believe that I might start out with 90% HT right now, but if I get a really nice setup I will start spending a lot more time in there just listening to music. Maybe that is wrong maybe it is not...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
You should also check out Triad - made for HT and very well respected.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Any other thoughts?


Down to


Axiom -- 80's / 60's, VP150v2 Center

Aperion 6Ts, 630C -- high-end option considering the price

Emotiva ERM 6.3 (same speaker for L/R/C)


I am also considering the Salk SongTowers with Center would really push the budget with an RT upgrade...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
Of the 4 that you mentioned I would pick Salk. I love the little rating thing that Aperion has every product they sell has a 5 out of 5 rating. The Salks outclass everything else you have on your list. Get the very best speakers you can they are more important than anything else IMO dont skimp and dont buy an unproven design. And dont listen to people who have owned few speakers in there life and only push one or two names. In your price range you should also check into paradigm and psb and just for fun (and they sound great) take a look at JBL PRO Lsr series http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/Genera...px?FId=6&MId=5
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,505 Posts
Discussion Starter · #18 ·
audio -- I do agree (especially with teh 5 star rating thing
)


The one issue with Salk is that I don't doubt that they are a great speaker, but I wonder if they aren't more music oriented vs Home Theaters. It is hard to say without listening to them, but it seems that they go for a more refined sound vs the HT sound if that makes sense
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
553 Posts
remember you will have 7 speakers in your room i'm sure the song towers would work great for HT if crossed to a good sub. Salk also makes a less expensive LCR. if good ht is what you are looking for you will need a powerfull sub even large floorstanders in the price range you are shopping in will not have the impact that only a good sub can bring to the ht party. i think you would be suprised just how loud a well made bookshelf setup can go if it does not have to reproduce bass I have a pair of revel m22 monitors and an svs sub crossed at 100hz in my office and together they can play clean to ear bleed levels.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
333 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhdiab /forum/post/0


It might be that I am not getting as much bang for the buck, but I am pretty set on the floorstanders. Maybe it is pure ignorance, but I really like how it looks and the once I have heard I liked...... I also do believe that I might start out with 90% HT right now, but if I get a really nice setup I will start spending a lot more time in there just listening to music. Maybe that is wrong maybe it is not...

If you have your heart set on towers then don’t let me talk you out of them or you will always be left wondering if you should have gotten them. Psychology plays a very important role in how we perceive things which is why blind testing is so critical.


I was in the same situation as you thinking my system would be mostly used for HT and gaming…now it’s about 80% music so in the end I am glad I bought the towers.

Quote:
Any other thoughts?


Down to


Axiom -- 80's / 60's, VP150v2 Center

Aperion 6Ts, 630C -- high-end option considering the price

Emotiva ERM 6.3 (same speaker for L/R/C)


I am also considering the Salk SongTowers with Center would really push the budget with an RT upgrade...

I can’t tell you which of these choices is best for you. Most owners will tell you that the speaker they bought is best for you. Following that people will likely tell you that what ever brand is a forum favorite is best. I will say that of your choices my preference for reason explained above (matching center, multi-polar surrounds) would be the Emotiva system.


I have compared the Axiom to B&W and Paradigm speakers and ranked them B&W, Axiom and Paradigm, however I bought the Axioms because I didn’t think that the B&W were better enough to justify the price. If you go back and listen to the B&W and Paradigm give them a listen for a while at a fairly high volume with something that has a lot of highs in it. If you find they are to bright or forward sounding then scratch Axiom off your list.

Quote:
The one issue with Salk is that I don't doubt that they are a great speaker, but I wonder if they aren't more music oriented vs Home Theaters. It is hard to say without listening to them, but it seems that they go for a more refined sound vs the HT sound if that makes sense

A good speaker for music will almost always be a good speaker for HT with some exceptions. For example I really liked a pair of Focal bookshelf speakers for music but preferred the Axiom M80s for HT because they had more impact. Also not all speakers are “good” for all types of music. Though I haven’t heard them the Salks are reputed to be excellent for most musical listening but not doing loud very well. Whereas the Axiom M80s play very loud with an excellent bass punch, which might be more important I you want loud techno music for parties. .


So which will work best for you depends on lot’s of variables including but not limited to personal preferences, intended use (including types of music and movies), room characteristics (size, construction, seating etc…) and budget.


I just spotted this link to an Emotiva GTG in the Axiom forum:

http://emotivalounge.proboards.com/i...ad=5370&page=8


Might be worth reading as there are some comments about both Axiom and Emotiva


Cheers,

Dean
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top