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Discussion Starter #1
This is butchered from the recent Outlaw Audio newsletter:

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LFM-2 News


... the LFM-2 subwoofer. This "little brother" to our LFM-1 was first previewed at the Home Entertainment Show last April, and it was a big hit. Like its elder sibling, the LFM-2 is a joint development of the Outlaws and Dr. Po Hsu, widely recognized as one of the world's leading designers of high performance subwoofers. Everyone who heard the LFM-2 demonstrated with our upcoming Model 2150 in New York was astounded by the "big sound" performance from this compact unit. In fact, some of the listeners were so impressed we even thought about changing the product name to "LFM Jr." Fortunately, cooler heads prevailed.


For the ultimate in subwoofer performance in large rooms, the LFM-1 remains a benchmark standard. However, for those with smaller rooms and modest budgets, the LFM-2 is a superb blend of high-power output and remarkably deep bass in a compact size. This is the perfect subwoofer for most dens, smaller living rooms, apartments, dorm rooms and bedrooms.


For you spec hungry bass hounds, here are the details:


- Driver Type: Down Firing, 8" Long-throw Woofer

- Single port design

- Amplifier Power Rating: 150WRMS; 800W peak

- Frequency Response: 28Hz. -180Hz. +/- 2 dB

- Crossover Type: Linkwitz-Reilly 4th Order Low Pass Network

- Crossover Frequency: 30Hz to 90Hz and Bypass

- Phase: 0 to 180 Degrees

- SPL: 110dB (subject to placement and room gain)

- Dimensions: (HxWxD) 17" x 11.25" x 16.5"

- Weight: 37 lbs


The price, you ask? How about an amazingly low $299! ...


Anticipating high demand for the LFM-2, we have loaded in a large initial supply, and it is due to arrive [about Aug. 8]. For that reason, we do not need to create a reservation list for the LFM-2. Place your order now, and we'll keep everyone in a queue with shipments beginning as soon as the container reaches the warehouse dock.


If your home theater is short on space, but you want to go long on bass, experience the LFM-2. We know that you'll agree with us that this small wonder is one of the biggest improvements you can make in your system for less than $300.
 

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Discussion Starter #2

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Does the HSU STF-1 come to mind for anyone here?


Ian :D
 

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Or buy two of 'em for $549! It is interesting that the LFM-2 is spec'd to 28 Hz +/-2db, while the STF-1 is 32 Hz +/-2dB. I wonder if that's just a difference in the testing methodology, or maybe a slightly improved port. According to the specs, the LFM-2 also has slightly different outer dimensions.


I really wish I had caught the LFM-1 b-stock offer - that was a pretty sweet deal.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
LFM-1 is similar to the STF-3 and the LFM-2 to the STF-1. No mystery there since Dr. Hsu worked on both and they have similar targets, both performance and $$. But there are subtle and important differences, one of which is the tune frequency. Also configuration, finish, amp, driver (I think).


I'm really impressed with the specs of the LFM-2. Wonder how it sounds.
 

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Having rep't a lot lot of different lines in this business I wouldn't be surprized if the driver and the amp were from the STF-1. I agree with DMF in that the tuning is slightly different but it is so subtle I dought you would really notice. It's like comparing the new Chevy Colbalt SS and Saturn Ion Red Line.


Ian :)
 

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Quote:
It is interesting that the LFM-2 is spec'd to 28 Hz +/-2db, while the STF-1 is 32 Hz +/-2dB. I wonder if that's just a difference in the testing methodology, or maybe a slightly improved port.
The LFM-2 has slightly more internal volume and a slightly deeper Fb. Otherwise the two designs are very similar.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
It may be good, but who could tell from the "specs"? Some of the weaseliest wording and non-specifications I've seen with a serious(?) product.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
It may be good, but who could tell from the "specs"? Some of the weaseliest wording and non-specifications I've seen with a serious(?) product.
Sorry to rain on your parade. But this is an open, public forum free of advertising.

So lets try to stay objective.

Are you connected to the industry?:)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by reincarnate
Sorry to rain on your parade. But this is an open, public forum free of advertising.

So lets try to stay objective.

Are you connected to the industry?:)
Sorry, but I'm with DMF on this one - the description of the Behringer sub on their website contains no useful information. I looked in the pdf manual, and it is better, it shows the FR as 32-80Hz +/- 3dB, and 28-100Hz +/-10dB. The amp rating was done in a weird way - "max. 360 watts (63 Hz/0.3% THD)" The max SPL spec is also fairly useless - "max. 117 dB SPL @ 1m" - but no indication of the THD at that SPL.


You want objective? Those specs are really not very impressive, especially when compared to very good subs like the STF-1. Have you heard the Behringer sub?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv
Sorry, but I'm with DMF on this one - the description of the Behringer sub on their website contains no useful information. I looked in the pdf manual, and it is better, it shows the FR as 32-80Hz +/- 3dB, and 28-100Hz +/-10dB. The amp rating was done in a weird way - "max. 360 watts (63 Hz/0.3% THD)" The max SPL spec is also fairly useless - "max. 117 dB SPL @ 1m" - but no indication of the THD at that SPL.


You want objective? Those specs are really not very impressive, especially when compared to very good subs like the STF-1. Have you heard the Behringer sub?
If I were a manufacture I would be just as fearful of a new generation of products like these from the Chinese.


I will repeat myself to answer your question:

" ... I've got the new Behringer on order". They web sites state they will be here in the states in 3-4 weeks.


I find the level of detail for such an inexpensive product to be excellent. Just look at the charts imprinted on the backside of the unit. (View the rear picture on Behringer's web site). Look at the connection flexibility. Impressive to say the least!
 

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I'm not trying to give you a hard time - but I'm having difficulty understanding how showing 4 charts labeled as "Possible Effects For Phase Differences" next to a 4 position (0, 90, 180, 270 deg) phase switch is particularly extraordinary. The "Input Trim" control is very small, and appears to be recessed - there is no conventional sub level control knob, so quickly changing the sub volume for movies vs music isn't going to be easy. The input/output connectors are clearly intended to be used in a studio environment, not the typical home theater - the use of balanced XLR connectors and the lack of RCA connectors are proof of that. The 3 position room EQ switch is a nice touch - but it can apply only a cut, no boost is possible. Studio monitors are intended for near field listening - and they are usually known for having very low noise & distortion - but they are a tool designed for the specific requirements of the studio. They can certainly be used in a HT - but I still think there are better choices. Good luck - and if you are able to show that my analysis is completely wrong once you get a chance to take measurements - I will be the first to cry "Mea Culpa" and fall on my sword. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv
I'm not trying to give you a hard time - but I'm having difficulty understanding how showing 4 charts labeled as "Possible Effects For Phase Differences" next to a 4 position (0, 90, 180, 270 deg) phase switch is particularly extraordinary. The "Input Trim" control is very small, and appears to be recessed - there is no conventional sub level control knob, so quickly changing the sub volume for movies vs music isn't going to be easy. The input/output connectors are clearly intended to be used in a studio environment, not the typical home theater - the use of balanced XLR connectors and the lack of RCA connectors are proof of that. The 3 position room EQ switch is a nice touch - but it can apply only a cut, no boost is possible. :)
Well, thanks for going over the numerous inputs and connections. Each Behringer contains two long throw 8" woofers.


Now ask yourself: who started their thread?

Answer: Outlaw


Now ask yourself: Did Outlaw recently introduce the first reasonable priced pre-amp/processor with balanced outputs?

Yes the model 990


Does the model 990 have a balanced subwoofer output?

Yes!


Now I hope that everyone can see the logic. Since the Behringer has a balanced thru output, one can connect one or two balanced Behringer subs for peanuts.


What does this buy you?

No ground loop hum. (Ground loop hum is the biggest problem going to separate UNbalanced components.) Just silence. Man those studio guys are smart!
 

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Discussion Starter #16
No, I'm not in the industry. What makes you think I am?


My comment was strictly objective. But let me be subjective. What was it that induced you to order the Behringer unit? Was it solely the XLR input?



Further, since you're posting the Behringer hype in the LFM-2 thread, you are strongly implying that it is a superior alternative to the LFM-2. But the specs (such as they are) don't support that. Nor do reviews nor listening tests.


So what's your point?
 

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Quote:
Now ask yourself: who started their thread?

Answer: Outlaw
reincarnate: Are you implying DMF is from Outlaw?
 

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Originally Posted by DMF
No, I'm not in the industry. What makes you think I am?


My comment was strictly objective. But let me be subjective.


So what's your point?
The first post and the second is nothing but pure advertising hype straight from the "horses mouth". This direct kind of information belongs on Outlaws own sponsored site and forums, not AVS. Do you want me to quote the policy?


Whats your next post, the manual? What does free advertising have to do with being subjective? What would happen if everyone started posting monthly newsletters from every manufacture and retailer? Think man (its called junk mail).:)


Even right now, AVS forum is full of manufactures/fans who spin posts with ulterior motives. What is unique about this thread is that the sales pitch is soo blatantly obvious.


I find allowing for no product loyalty allows for greater objectivity. The fact is that most (90%?) speakers built today come from China. Where are the Outlaw products built?


Also, the Behringer weighs 73lbs. What does the Outlaw weigh?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMF
No, I'm not in the industry. What makes you think I am?


My comment was strictly objective. But let me be subjective.
The first post and the second is nothing but pure advertising hype straight from the "horses mouth". This direct kind of information belongs on Outlaws own sponsored site and forums, not AVS. Do you want me to quote the policy?


Whats your next post, the manual? What does free advertising have to do with being subjective? What would happen if everyone started posting monthly newsletters from every manufacture and retailer? Think man (its called junk mail).:)


Even right now, AVS forum is full of manufactures/fans who spin posts with ulterior motives. What is unique about this thread is that the sales pitch is soo blatantly obvious.


I find allowing for no product loyalty allows for greater objectivity. The fact is that most (90%?) speakers built today come from China. Where are the Outlaw products manufactured?


Also, the Behringer weighs 73lbs. Since subwoofer weight is usually proportional to cabinet bracing and quality, what does the Outlaw weigh?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by billybob_jcv
Sorry, but I'm with DMF on this one - the description of the Behringer sub on their website contains no useful information. I looked in the pdf manual, and it is better, it shows the FR as 32-80Hz +/- 3dB, and 28-100Hz +/-10dB. The amp rating was done in a weird way - "max. 360 watts (63 Hz/0.3% THD)" The max SPL spec is also fairly useless - "max. 117 dB SPL @ 1m" - but no indication of the THD at that SPL.
I believe that's at 600,000% THD :D


Since when is an 8" driver a subwoofer? We have to draw the line somewhere.
 
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