[acannon]

Quoted from today's newsletter from Outlaw Audio :

Quote:

The Outlaw Video Projector Again, rapid technology movement in this area is changing the face of the market. We were very close to beginning production of a unit based on an 1024x768 resolution chip. However, it now appears that in exchange for a few months delay in this project we will be able to deliver a high-quality, DLPâ„¢ based projector based on a 1280x720 native resolution light engine. Just to be on the safe side, the Outlaws will be visiting both Infocomm and the Society for Information Display conventions in June to evaluate alternatives to DLP such as LCoS, D-ILAâ„¢ and other fixed array imaging technologies. Based on what we see, final specs will be frozen with a goal of shipping the projector before the end of the year. A note of caution is in order here. We've read the many comments and suggestions offered by fellow Outlaws both in the Internet groups and in our own Saloon. As you can tell by the delay that will enable us to offer full native HD resolution, we listen closely and carefully to your comments, and we'll implement many of them in the final product. However, to eliminate any possible confusion later on, we want to go on record with an estimated price about $10,000 for the projector. As much as we'd love to sell it at some of the prices we've seen suggested, reality does not permit that kind of pricing in today's market. Could we offer a $5,000 projector? Sure, if you are willing to accept low light output and scaled, rather than native HD imaging. We're NOT going to do that. What we WILL do is offer a video projector with image quality, brightness, resolution and control that will rival units selling for $20,000 or more. If there is one thing the Outlaws won't compromise on it is quality and value. With the cost of fixed array imaging engines today, that is simply not possible in a unit selling from any manufacturer under $10,000.

 

[PhilB]

Well,


It looks like it's up to InFocus to save all of us who want a HT projector in the $4k - $5k range.


-phil

 

[RicardoD]

Phil,


I agree, this is the price point I am looking for as well. Even at $4-5k one may still need a panamorph and outboard scaler or HTPC to complete the video chain.




------------------

All the best,

Ricardo
Sony KP-xxHS10 Zone

 

[David James]

I agree as well. I still think there is very very large market for projectors in the 3-5k range. I think the 10k market is significantly smaller, maybe by 10x, 100x?

 

[Jonmx]

What does a $20K projector have over a Sanyo PLC-XP21N, which can be picked up for $6?

 

[Larry Davis]

Quote:

What does a $20K projector have over a Sanyo PLC-XP21N, which can be picked up for $6?

6 bucks? Count me in on this one! http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

[rlsmith]

I find it strange that a company that has made its name by making fine audio gear in the $500 range would think that it is consistent to have a projector for $10,000. There are not very many buyers in that range (no one I know anyway, and I live in Palo Alto CA).


The crazy thing remains that a few well-considered adjustments to the Infocus 350 or NEC LT150 would make a fine machine under $5k.


Will someone step up to the plate here?

 

[Wireless]

I agree with rlsmith, this flies in the face of good product strategy. Their target market has been the value oriented consumer. To bring to market their first video offering at $10,000 is not consistent. Maybe they think that $10,000 for a projector is the same as $500 for a receiver. I'm afraid if they put too much of an investment into this, we could see troubled times ahead for Outlaw.


------------------

John
My HT Picts


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 06-01-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 06-01-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 06-01-2001).]

 

[Rgb]

If the Outlaws want to make HT history, all they need to do is make a $5000 retail (maybe even $6000 retail, less than $5000 street) 1410x600 square pixel panel digital projector.


1410x600 = 846000 pixels (2.35 AR)


1024x768 = 786432 pixels (1.33 AR)


1366x768 = 1049088 pixels (1.78 AR)


Couldn't a 1410x600 pixel projector be made for less than a 1366x768 pixel projector (10HT, 11HT, Sanyo), assuming cost scales with pixel count, all else being equal?

 

[PhilB]

Quote:

Maybe they think that $10,000 grand for a projector is the same as $500 for a receiver.

$10,000 grand? Count me OUT of this one. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif


But seriously folks, what this tells me is that:


a) Outlaw has finally decided that big profit margins are nice


or


b) Whoever is OEMing this projector for Outlaw is getting some good margins,


or


c) It is manufactured in Europe and simply rebadged for Outlaw, thus they have to pay import taxes and shipping. See previous discussions about Seleco pricing in Europe vs USA for more on this.


-phil


[This message has been edited by PhilB (edited 06-01-2001).]

 

[Cameron]

Wow, that sounds like it is going to cost way too much. I would really doubt that it would beat a G20 with a really good Scaler (which will still be a very good bit less than $20k.)


Then there is a Sony G90. Given the right deal, you could maybe pick one up for $20k. It wouldn't have a scaler though, but that is a dang tough one to beat.


Now if they could come up with something that used a G20 optical engine with a good outboard scaler for $10k. That would be great. Heck even a G15 with a good integrated Scaler.


Cameron




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-- Well I have really blown my budget now. --

 

[PhilB]

Below is another quote from the Outlaw audio website about their projector plans. It looks like they are listening to potential customers. Unless they are working on a miracle, I have a feeling that by the time they get around to releasing the projector, it may be a who cares.


Here's the link to their web site.

http://www.outlawaudio.com/news/july_projector.html

-phil



----------------------------------------------------

The Outlaw Video Projector


Since the last edition of this newsletter the Outlaws and their video projection engineers have attended Infocomm and the annual meeting of the Society for Information Display (SID). We listened to the technical papers, walked the floors of the trade shows, talked to the key component suppliers and gauged the probable competition from the leading brands. At the same time, we've read all of the comments and suggestions in the Saloon about video projectors. Information overload? You bet!


In terms of technology, it's still likely that our first offering will use a single chip light engine based on DLP™ technology, though at this point no decision has been made about a 1280x720 chip that will deliver "native HD" resolution, an SXGA chip that can display 720P images with proper scaling, or an XGA chip that is less expensive but not true HD compatible. Beyond that, there are design decisions that need to be made based on evaluating the benefits of certain new technologies such as "SCR" color wheels with spiral, rather than block-segmented color patterning and the new DLP chips with 12°, rather than 10° deflection. Some of our discussions with vendors on these matters are covered by non-disclosure agreements, so we really can't say much more at this time. What we can say is that we're trying to get a fix on the true cost of these improvements, their actual benefit when put into working chassis and system, and the realistic schedule for production quantity availability.


When all of that is digested we'll have more to say on our plans for a projector. We have taken to heart the many comments in the Saloon that we need to be very careful about where we position our projector in the field of available brands, models and prices. That's exactly what we are doing, and it is the reason why there seems to be little movement on this product. As with the DVD player, we're taking our time so that we can do it right.


One side note on technology: We have been looking very closely at the new LCoS imaging technology which some amongst the Outlaws (and elsewhere) think may eventually surpass DLP as the most cost efficient light engine for a given resolution. LCoS, which you see now in JVC's D-ILA projectors, and which RCA will use in their 50" rear projector this fall, is a reflective LCD as opposed to the micro-mechanical mirrors in DLP. We'll continue to look at LCoS chips from all of the various suppliers, but for the moment we'll more likely to go with a DLP solution for our first projection offering.

 

[dhanson]

Could someone explain to me why one of these companies doesn't just take two 800 x 600 cheap DLP panels, put them side-by-side, and make a 1600 x 600 panel? Then just mask the width back down to 1410, and you'd have a native 2:35:1 panel.


Given that I've seen 800 x 600 DLP's for under 2K, they should be able to bring a projector like this to market for maybe 5K-6K, and it'd fly off the shelves.


There must be something I'm missing about DLP panels. Perhaps no two behave exactly the same way, so that the image would always look split down the middle?

 

[PhilB]

Maybe the manufacturers don't believe there's a market for this projector, or they just haven't thought of it. Personally, I'm not interested if it can't do native HDTV. Take two 1024x768 panels and now we're talking.


I've seen video walls made from 4 DLP panels (2x2 array) which looked pretty good. I believe they are made from four seperate projectors, so that may be a bit easier than a single projector with multiple DMDs.

 

[DanHouck]

I'd put my Boxlight 38T(Sanyo XP21N clone) with Grayhawk up against any of these high-priced, low lumen DLPs any day of the week. IMO, far too much emphasis is made on absolute black level and not near enough on how close a setup comes to giving you that movie theater, film-like experience.


As far as Outlaw, sounds to me like they've become one of the high privced in-laws. You don't have to spend $10K to get a great HT experience--I know this from first-hand experience.


Dan

 

[Steve Dodds]

Whatever (and if ever) they release will be OEMed as the money to develop their is way more than Outlaw could afford.


The cost difference over whoever they OEM from will simply be margin, like Yamaha, Runco etc.


Best of luck to them.


Steve


------------------
Steve's Photos

Today's Equipment List

 

[dhanson]

How much of the cost of a projector is the light engine, and how much goes into the scaler, software, etc?


I'm thinking that one way someone could come out with a cheap HT projector would be to simply assume that it will be used with an HTPC or exterior scaler. Break all the electronics out of the light engine box. The projector itself would simply have an RGB port and no scaler whatsoever. All signals would have to be fed in at the panel resolution.


I think Runco takes this approach with at least one of their projectors, but being Runco they sell the outboard scaler with the projector and it's a lot of money. How about just concentrating on making the best light engine you can, and make that available?


How much would an LT-150 retail for without all the bells and whistles? No compactflash slot, no software for powerpoint presentations, no scaler, etc. Now take the money you save, and use it to upgrade the light engine to maybe 1300 lumens and use a 16:9 DLP panel. THAT could be the killer home theater projector, other than the rainbow effect.

 

[dhanson]

Oh, and since it's aimed at home theater you don't have to cram everything into a 3 lb package. That means cheaper construction methods, and the ability to get rid of the high velocity, noisy fan and replace it with a large, high volume low-speed fan that is much quieter.

 

[Mark Hunter]

Quote:

The Outlaws wrote:We have been looking very closely at the new LCoS imaging technology which some amongst the Outlaws (and elsewhere) think may eventually surpass DLP

"Eventually"???

http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/biggrin.gif

 

[Jon_B]

I have to agree with you all. When I think of outlaw, the phrase "best bang for the buck" comes to my head. On the other hand, a 10,000 lcd projector does not. I have a lot of respect for what outlaw has been able to do with their amp and receiver. This doesn't seem like a good move on their part.


Jon