[smakovits]

In looking at the overall layout of my room, I have completely changed my layout from the original plan. The space is a bit smaller than I would like, but after some thinking I have come up with a plan that looks pretty good on paper, but now I want to bring it to the experts for advice and constructive criticism.


Being a colonial home, results in the steps coming right down in the middle of the basement causing some issues, but I have accepted it and came up with a solution that i feel will work.


Depending on how I handle my stairs will determine the overall width of my room. I can have the angle of the stairs be visible in the room, or I can block them out completely, depending on what the presence of part of the steps can have on the acoustics of my room.

My current design puts the wall without the step in the room...here is an image to show what my current thinking is:

the piece that hangs out there would potentially be my component rack built into the wall.


Then because I want to also have a man room area with kitchen and table for cards, I had to open the wall to connect the two rooms, and then I would place a counter where the support beams are to allow for people to sit or stand there and still watch the television or movie that is showing. I got this idea from frorule, http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=948258


here is a rendering that illustrates what I am thinking here:

The next image I have is a view from the front to illustrate how things line up from the front of the room where the screen is hung.

The problem I have is that currently I have a couch and a love seat, there are no plans for theater seats at the current moment...that would be somewhere in the long future. Therefore I must work with what I have for the time being. The couches have recliners built in so the will work sort of. Because I am stuck with only one row means that the love set couch will go on the side wall, I know I know, this is not ideal, but considering that I wont have 10 people down there all the time, it will work for the few times that I do. So with that said, I will not that until last night I was thinking the small couch will be on the right wall (looking from the front) but now I think it will go on the left wall. Where you can see the cavities on the left, I can gain at least 1 foot of space. The problem I noticed last night was that when I recline the couches the foot thing that comes up would hit each other, so I have to move to the other side to gain the little more room. Then instead of centering the big couch on the back wall like originally planned, I will shift it a bit so the the reclining section on the end in in the center of the screen (the large couch has 3 sections and only the 2 ends recline and I figure instead of a non-reclining section in the middle of the screen, I should have a reclining section because we all know that is more ideal).


again looking from the front, the left opening in the back will turn into a complete opening/doorway to get to each side of the theater (kitchen/bar/standing side to the theater side) I hope that makes sense. I will then have the door into the theater side be on the right wall in the back and another door would be outside of that leading into the other side of the theater, without having to enter the theater.



Now with all that said, I will mention some hardware I am thinking about and what I already have.


I have an onkyo 805 and Klipsch RF-82s for the front and RF-62s for the sides and rears. I would plan to buy an rc-62 to match as a center....I am thinking about a 1 foot high stage and then the rest of the towers will also sit on 1 foot stands.


what I would plan for...Panasonic AT2000 projector and then a carada brilliant white screen. because I would not plan to hide the the speakers behind the screen I dont think I need an SMX.

I figure screen throw distance to roughly 13 feet give or take. and then screen size to be like 110" wide, although that may be too much for my distance, where I have to cut back to 96" wide I think...


So this is my starting point, where I actually have rough plans made up, now, going forward I have to think about actual screen size to avoid screen door effect, acoustic treatments if needed, where the best spot for the rear speakers is, and what can be done with the stairs and their possible presence in the room. So feel free, ask away, any questions you may have, criticize if you would like, or even suggest things that could possibly be better in improving my design. I am open to everything people have to say. Thanks in advance.

 

[smakovits]

bump

 

[smakovits]

I hate to sound crazy, but is this design so unique that nobody has any input? Or am I unclear in my questions, and nobody knows how to respond...? If nobody has anything to say, maybe that is a good thing, and I will proceed with what I have. My biggest concern would have to be acoustics with this type of setup. With the wider setup I would also be contending with what the stairs can do to the acoustics as opposed to just the length of the room...


But like I said, nobody saying anything negative could be good, and alls I will have to worry about moving forward is possible acoustic treatments. But even there, i would have to try working them into my plans before everything gets finished.

 

[Tedd]

I have to wonder if the bar wall is a good thing? Leaving out that wall, and keeping the 3'8" wide opening as a walk through, but still keeping the bar counter (supported by the posts) would keep the space more open and might even be superior sonically.


Frorule has a much larger space then yours, and I think a larger volume, more open concept would produce a more desirable multipurpose room. I also don't think I'd be worried about letting some of the stair case angle creep into the room, by widening the theater space a bit more, maybe a foot or so. The bit of extra width might help with the reclining issue.

 

[NaTeDoGG]

I don't see any doors to the second room?


I also wouldn't worry about the stairs jutting into the room ruining acoustics. As long as you have clear view of the screen, maximize the size of the room in every dimension.


Painting the ceiling and front wall black will make the room feel bigger. I used the blackest black ever, called Speed Hide by Pittsburgh Paints. The only downside is it is so flat that touching it can leave marks. Nothing is blacker however. Paint the other walls a different color, not black.


Not sure on the bar. I think the 1'7" window would be too small and may look strange. I also think your room may not be big enough to pull it off.


You need ~12' to throw a 100"x56.25" screen. The ideal sitting distance from this is about 13-14'. That is what I'd do in the room I think. You aren't limited to either 96" or 110" width, you should be able to have them make a screen of any size. You can but the screen last though, so install the PJ and determine the size first. No need to rush things, do it right!


Don't worry about SDE. Any 1080p PJ won't have an issue. I'd say get the RS1 if you have the budget.


I also went with couches rather than theater seats. My room is 18'x10.5' though, so I managed two rows. If you kept the space open between rooms and you'd have some 6' behind the last row. Good place to put equipment, maybe in a corner back there.


My theater:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=883876

 

[smakovits]



Quote:
Not sure on the bar. I think the 1'7" window would be too small and may look strange. I also think your room may not be big enough to pull it off.


You need ~12' to throw a 100"x56.25" screen. The ideal sitting distance from this is about 13-14'. That is what I'd do in the room I think. You aren't limited to either 96" or 110" width, you should be able to have them make a screen of any size. You can but the screen last though, so install the PJ and determine the size first. No need to rush things, do it right!


Don't worry about SDE. Any 1080p PJ won't have an issue. I'd say get the RS1 if you have the budget.

Yeah, the 1'7" window would look pretty out of place, but if I do like ted said and widen the room by 1 foot, then I will have 2'7" which would be more normal. Also I was thinking, if you feel the stairs wont effect acoustics too much then I will let them creep into the room, to the point where I can stand under them I am 6'4", this will let me move at least a foot, if not a little more. I was just under the impression that the stairs could cause issues with the sound, so I wanted to take them out of the picture completely.



I havent locked into the screen size yet, but the 110 diagonal seems pretty common, or so it seems. With the numbers you throw out there, I would be throwing from ~12 feet and would sit about 13 feet, so as long as I can accomplish this I think I should be pretty happy. I picked that projector because the cost

erformance seems optimal, I dont want to shell out double the cash at this point unless absolutely necessary.


At this point the most important thing that needs to happen is that I decide on the size and get building, I can get the projector, put it in the most likely spot, and do some test before ultimately deciding on a screen size.


I just need to finalize my room design so I can start thinking about things like lighting, switches, wiring and all the other crazy stuff that is sure to follow once I have a rough idea of how my room will be laid out.

 

[smakovits]

so yesterday I did something fun. While I have no walls other than the existing ones, I hooked up all my speakers and connected a dvd player so i can at least sit and hear things for once. Since buying all the equipment back in october, this was the first time I had all the speakers hooked up at once to my receiver. Because I planned to move, I only hooked up two speakers prior just to tease myself a little. With initial testing, about 15 minutes, due to the fact that it was 1230 when I finished, things sounded pretty good, but I am sure to listen some more tonight.


One thing I will note, is that once you get all those speakers unboxed, there is a lot of speaker, not that I am complaining though, I love it. It just means I will need to consider some things when doing the constructing so to work their size into the project. With that, I have a question. Because the one speaker is barely visible behind the one couch, I will need to raise them for sure, so initial thoughts are about a foot. but also, I will want to get them flush with the wall, so the couch isnt sitting out a foor from the wall because of a speaker behind it. With that said though, I am not talking to build the towers into the wall, instead, I want to build kind of a channel or cove that is open, for the speaker to sit in.


The fronts, I will leave open completely, but the side and rears will require this, therefore, my question is, roughly how much space should I plan for at the sides and rear of the speakers (Klipsch RF-62's). I would figure just to let the channel go all the way to the ceiling, but I dont know what kind of space around the speaker I should leave as to not effect the overall sound/performance of the speakers.

 

[craig john]

Would it be possible for you to "place" your proposed speaker locations, screen position and seating in your renders? It would be much easier to understand exactly what you're describing. Thanks.


Craig

 

[smakovits]

OK, this is pretty rough speaker placement but because of my lacking skills with sketchup, hopefully it will do. I did remove the side bars and they will now simply be walkthrough areas, so there will be an 8 foot bar counter only between the two support beams. Due to my lacking skills with sketchup I have not put any couches into the images because I cant...


So this will hopefully just give you a rough idea. Also keep in mind that the one wall will also move 3'9" over under the steps there. I am hoping the steps hanging into the room wont effect the accoustics too much. Also the screen is in a rough position, it will end up being centered based on the opening on the back wall as this seems to be the best way to do it. So here they are some rough images with some tall block things that are supposed to be speakers...

From the front:

From the back:

 

[craig john]

Just some general thoughts:


1. Make the 18'4" x 11'7" room the HT. Completely enclose it with just one doorway into it. The dimensions work much better for HT, acoustics and seating. You could use 2 rows of seats and build a riser in the back for the second row. You could encase the support posts into the wall.


2. Then use the other 14'4" x 14' room as the "man room". If you want TV in that room, add a flat panel in there. You could have a bar area and a "gaming" area with a pool table or the like in that space.


3. Another idea is to open the whole space up into one large area, partially divided by walls that extend out to the support posts.


Just throwing things out there for consideration...


Craig

 

[smakovits]

OK, those are definitely good ideas, and I love ideas, but sometimes they make my head spin a bit, because more ideas means more decisions and more decisions makes it harder for me to figure out what I want to do exactly. One thing I will note, is I have decided to drag the wall out to the stairs in the 14x14'4" room so I will gain roughly almost 4 feet, so the room would then be 18'x14'4", so I dont know if that makes a difference there.


second the thought of separating the two rooms by a door and having the theater closed in is good, but then if the guys are over you are stuck in the theater to watch forcing you into specific seats. By having a bar/media room area, you are more free to move around and sit wherever and talk but you still get to see the "BIG" screen, although I would never rule this idea out because it does make sense to just throw a plasma on the wall, although that does add 1k immediately to the cost, but sometimes you do what you have to do.


Third, one giant area could be cool too, but then there is the question of how to position couches and such.


Lastly, going back to your first idea, I have a hard time doing the 2 row seating with a riser because of my ceiling height. While 7 feet is plenty when standing on the floor, being 6'4" I would be limited to less than an 8" riser before smashing my head. I mean i could stay off the riser myself, but that isnt the best solution either.


Again, I totally appreciate the ideas because it helps me think more, so keep them coming. I just wanted to give a response to your ideas so you get an idea of what I am thinking too, to try and make some more sense of things, as to what is available and possible.

 

[smakovits]

well, in the past week I have started ripping down the crappy walls that existed in the basement, and now the space is much more open, I have a space that is 20x26 and then on the 26ft portion at about the 14 ft mark there are the support beams 8 feet across cutting the room in half into two portions a 14x20 and a 12x20, although there is no wall now, just the beams...I figure they will be what separates the media/man room portion from the theater/man room portion...

 

[smakovits]

As I have been working on the demo portion of my build I figured I would post some real photos, both pre and post demo. The best part about all this is while I still have no idea what I want completely, seeing it torn apart allows me to visualize a bit more easily...

this one is looking back at the other side of the basement...the photo above is from the other side of the wall which is now removed

The hardest part is systematically tearing things apart, I figure I will be able to salvage some of the lumber if I dont tear the boards apart...The part that sucks is that I have removed about all the nails I have come across so that slows things a bit. In a few of the images you can see the paneling that is ripped down, it is a pain, there are a ton of tiny nails in each piece and because each piece is so big it is hard to drap up the stairs right now...so I figure during the rebuild, I may chop these into smaller pieces to make it easier to haul it all to the curb, or the dumpster if I decide to order one. Otherwise while I am still thinking about what all will go into this, I like the transformation as the old room is torn down.


Things I have thought about but have no clue at all...:

1. remote control, which one and then IR with relay or RF

2. lighting and lighting control

3. actual screen size, I have an idea, but is it better to buy the projector, project an image, and see what actually works?

4. future-proof wiring, I am going to go 7.1 for audio and hdmi to the projector, do I really need to worry about anything else? maybe some cat-5 runs, but since I dont have any to the basement at this point, it may not even matter...


OK thats all I have for now, let me know if you guys have any thoughts...Things have been pretty quiet till now, but I am hoping it will pick up a little to help get some ideas flowing.


Thanks!

 

[smakovits]

While this thread has been far too popular, 900+ views and like 3 replies that aren't mine...I figure I will continue to post updates with my progress with hopes that someone will finally actually chime in. I don't quite know why I have gotten no responses, but I know it isnt because my build is too complex, at least I hope not...I do realize it is in the wrong forum as it should be in the media room/theater thread but that shouldnt be that big of a deal...who knows.


Well, this weekend I finished the demo process, I removed all the carpet and am down to the bare concrete. the only part that still has to be ripped down is at the bottom of the steps, but that will be dealt with once the rest of the room starts being built and I can move some stuff around. So any way, I have completely changed the design/layout to be more appealing.


The best way to describe it is to rotate the room with the theater 90 degrees, the screen will go on the wall where the 2 closets were (now just the water meter remains. the portion of the stairs will be fully in the room to maximize length the wall will go straight across there, with the bigger of the two couches being along this back wall and out a little to allow room for my rear speakers. the love seat will then be along the left wall and the counter will remain between the same two beams so you can peer through at the screen. this will make the room about 20x15. the entrance will be on the one side of the stairs, while the equipment rack will be built into the wall on the other.


A few things that I realized after the carpet was removed but dont know the best solution...The first is that the floor is not completely level, there was one spot I knew was bad because I always felt it, but with the carpet out I see lots of spots where the floor dips and such, is this normal and is there any easy way to fix it other than resurfacing the entire floor.


The second thing I noticed was on the floor by what would be the screen wall. The concrete is very cool and almost seems damp. the nails holding the furring strips were rusty. there is about a quarter to half inch gap (i didnt measure) between the floor and the wall in this same area. Is this something I should be concerned with? Is there any real way to fix this? I do not have a sump pump so it is nothing like that, it really just seems like moisture from the ground. obviously i will need to use treated would here so it doesn't rot, but should I also do something else to avoid trouble in the future?


Other than this, I plan to try and get my true layout for the room, since I am aweful at drawing as well as Google sketch-up, I think the easiest thing will be to tape the floor marking the layout to make things more visual. Anyone have any better ideas for this?


Thanks guys, and off to the real planning phase...(this will also allow me to tape an area of what would be the screen so I can see how that will look too size wise, it is impossible to visualize a screen on a cinder block wall as I quickly came to learn.)

 

[Tedd]

Time to get out the masking tape then.

Many of us have.


Come full circle in the design have we? That sometimes happens.


The uneven floor could be levelled by self levelling cement. It mixes up as a watery mix that self levels. Works great and is a simple DIY project. You'll want to clean the floor where the low spot is, for good adhesion.


Tape down a 2 foot square piece of plastic to the concrete, and seal on all edges. Give it several days and you'll know if you have moisture issues.

 

[dc_pilgrim]



Quote:
Originally Posted by smakovits /forum/post/13106309


Things I have thought about but have no clue at all...:

1. remote control, which one and then IR with relay or RF

2. lighting and lighting control

3. actual screen size, I have an idea, but is it better to buy the projector, project an image, and see what actually works?

4. future-proof wiring, I am going to go 7.1 for audio and hdmi to the projector, do I really need to worry about anything else? maybe some cat-5 runs, but since I dont have any to the basement at this point, it may not even matter...

1.Can be an end of project decision - run conduit to your screenwall and you can add an $80 extender late in the game. If you don't run conduit, you need to determine the wire the extender will need (cat 5e I think, but not sure) and get that in, or decide to commit to RF.

2. What is your budget? for control systems, spendy but nice, Lutron Grafik eye, the other options frequently used are insteon, z-wave, lutron spacer system, or x-10. For the lights, budget can be a factor, but sound isolation needs come first - recessed cans can be a flanking path (unless boxed or in an isolated soffit) sconces, track lighting are less of an issue.

3. Try to buy the PJ last, as they only get better & cheaper. Maybe time for the blue tape and some visualization? Another test is to consider where you sit in the commercial theater (front, back, middle) - and then compare to this chart (happens to be 2.39 aspect ratio or scope):

You can then crib in with the calculator at this link:
http://myhometheater.homestead.com/v...alculator.html

These ratio's are NOT gospel - but can give you a yardstick to start from.

4. I ran 2" conduit to the PJ and the screenwall. Then ran my surrounds as in-wall wires, after debating running narrower conduit to them. I some what regretted not running conduit to one surround in the event that I wanted to go with buttkickers, or the like. Now I am selling the house, so I don't really care.


I am sure you can see why people spend so much time reading here before they start projects

 

[smakovits]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Tedd /forum/post/13213244


Time to get out the masking tape then.

Many of us have.


Come full circle in the design have we? That sometimes happens.


The uneven floor could be levelled by self levelling cement. It mixes up as a watery mix that self levels. Works great and is a simple DIY project. You'll want to clean the floor where the low spot is, for good adhesion.


Tape down a 2 foot square piece of plastic to the concrete, and seal on all edges. Give it several days and you'll know if you have moisture issues.

And if I figure the moisture would collect under the plastic, and if it does, what happens then?

 

[smakovits]

This evening I began taping the floor to get a rough design plan in the works. With that, i started with what any wise man would...I taped the screen onto the wall. While there will be a stage and stage wall, this really give one and excellent idea of how it will look. Right now, my screen wall is 178x90. with this, I went with a 114" diag. 1.78:1 screen, so the screen is 99x56. I measured it to be 24" off the floor and plan for a 8" stage (I think), so 16" off the stage. I also would have roughly 40" on each side of the screen. this also gives me about 3-4" above the screen and frame. ... well that might be a little tight, maybe I should go to the 110" screen and gain what could be an important 2" height wise. What do you guys think? Do these numbers sound OK? Is that a good height for the bottom of the screen, should it go up or down?


I am thinking my center Channel will be on the floor, it will be a Klipsch RC-62 when I buy it, I figure this thing is big enough that it will be OK on the floor, any thoughts there?


And lastly for my current thoughts, should the sub sit on the stage, or can it go on the floor in front of the stage, without any major issues.

 

[smakovits]

Because everyone says to build a stage that is not touching the walls, does that mean you should try not to touch the ceiling when building the screen wall...? This might be hard though

 

[djn312]

Tear it all out and go with the loft/industral style. That is what I did.


http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=999923