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I've heard the fourth gen should be out early to mid next year. Biggest change seems to be HDMI 2.1 and more future proof. I'm not planning on moving to 8K anyyyyytime soon, so thought I'd take advantage of a great price on solid 4K gear.

This time next year is perfect timing for me...heck, I’m not even 4K yet since the Panny is running strong and I’ve been updating 2 channel audio the past 2 years.


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Sweet....:)



If you have the proper space, not a bad idea - but I'd consider a second subwoofer as well. Probably before the 7.x.x part....




Unfortunately, D-Sonic's lower power/more channel amps are not yet available. :( But, others; possibly Monolith or Emotiva. No 4s or 6x, but Emotiva for example offers a 5 and 7 BasX series, for $499 and $599 respectively.



With no subs, 95F. With subs 85F is claimed to be the sweet spot in the Prestige lineup. And 55C is awesome. You don't absolutely have to get the surrounds that match these, but if you can, it's not a bad idea. You could save a bit with the Premiers as surrounds. If you went Paradigm in-walls, the Elite series is the technical match to Prestige, but you could save a few bucks and go Pro line, and still be good. There are advantages to either approach.

In-walls are out of the way, and clean, and have some other advantages, but leaves little to no experimentation with placement, obviously! Conventional speakers, might be in the way depending on your space, typically lower WAF for some reason, but have advantages for placement and experimentation reasons.

One potential issue with in-walls in inaccurate calibration. Gene Delasalla from Audioholics mentions this in his latest YouTube video on room correction.


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Hi All.

I am an owner of an Anthem MRX 1120 and wanted to get some feedback about possibly adding a power amplifier for my Front Left/Center/Right. My current configuration in my dedicated media room is a 7.2.2.

Mains - Martin Logan Motion 40i + 50XT center.
Surround L/R - Martin Logan EM IW in walls
Surround Back L/R - Martin Logan Motion 4i.
Atmos - Martin Logan EM IC in ceiling

My media room is about 12 by 12 so i've had to make some compromises with my surrounds. The ML speakers are 4 ohm and the MRX 1120 does a good job but i'm looking for ways to improve my overall setup. My understanding is that with two channels driven, the MRX produces 140w for channels 1 - 5 into 8 ohms and 60W into 8 ohms for the remaining channels

What would be the benefit of adding a 3 or 5 channel amp to the overall configuration?

Has anyone done something similar that can share any feedback?

Any feedback would be appreciated.
 

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Hi All.

I am an owner of an Anthem MRX 1120 and wanted to get some feedback about possibly adding a power amplifier for my Front Left/Center/Right. My current configuration in my dedicated media room is a 7.2.2.

Mains - Martin Logan Motion 40i + 50XT center.
Surround L/R - Martin Logan EM IW in walls
Surround Back L/R - Martin Logan Motion 4i.
Atmos - Martin Logan EM IC in ceiling

My media room is about 12 by 12 so i've had to make some compromises with my surrounds. The ML speakers are 4 ohm and the MRX 1120 does a good job but i'm looking for ways to improve my overall setup. My understanding is that with two channels driven, the MRX produces 140w for channels 1 - 5 into 8 ohms and 60W into 8 ohms for the remaining channels

What would be the benefit of adding a 3 or 5 channel amp to the overall configuration?

Has anyone done something similar that can share any feedback?

Any feedback would be appreciated.
I think it would be helpful to define exactly what you mean by "improving my overall setup" as it relates to adding an external amplifier. What aspects of the sound do you not like about the current setup using the 1120? In a room the size of yours, I can't imagine you're getting near the limits of output for the 1120.

Your media room is only 12x12 so I'm guessing this isn't a matter of needing additional output, but rather wanting to change the character of the sound from your L/C/R?
 

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One potential issue with in-walls in inaccurate calibration. Gene Delasalla from Audioholics mentions this in his latest YouTube video on room correction.


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Is this with in-walls overall or regards to Anthem ARC? Do you have a link? I have a full set of GoldenEar in-walls sitting in boxes ready to be installed. This would be a bummer.
 

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I think it would be helpful to define exactly what you mean by "improving my overall setup" as it relates to adding an external amplifier. What aspects of the sound do you not like about the current setup using the 1120? In a room the size of yours, I can't imagine you're getting near the limits of output for the 1120.

Your media room is only 12x12 so I'm guessing this isn't a matter of needing additional output, but rather wanting to change the character of the sound from your L/C/R?
Thanks for the response. I'm hoping to add additional clarity to my speakers especially the fronts and surrounds. Dialog from the center is good but not exceptional. To use an example, my wife will sometimes ask to have the captions turned on. Maybe i'm nitpicking but looking for ways to improve the overall quality of the sound.
 

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Thanks for the response. I'm hoping to add additional clarity to my speakers especially the fronts and surrounds. Dialog from the center is good but not exceptional. To use an example, my wife will sometimes ask to have the captions turned on. Maybe i'm nitpicking but looking for ways to improve the overall quality of the sound.
A new amp won't fix that.
 

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For this type of improvement you’d be better off investigating some different room treatments, or even basic speaker placement.

I think it would be helpful to define exactly what you mean by "improving my overall setup" as it relates to adding an external amplifier. What aspects of the sound do you not like about the current setup using the 1120? In a room the size of yours, I can't imagine you're getting near the limits of output for the 1120.

Your media room is only 12x12 so I'm guessing this isn't a matter of needing additional output, but rather wanting to change the character of the sound from your L/C/R?
Thanks for the response. I'm hoping to add additional clarity to my speakers especially the fronts and surrounds. Dialog from the center is good but not exceptional. To use an example, my wife will sometimes ask to have the captions turned on. Maybe i'm nitpicking but looking for ways to improve the overall quality of the sound.
 

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Thanks for the response. I'm hoping to add additional clarity to my speakers especially the fronts and surrounds. Dialog from the center is good but not exceptional. To use an example, my wife will sometimes ask to have the captions turned on. Maybe i'm nitpicking but looking for ways to improve the overall quality of the sound.

Is it just your wife, or do you feel the same way about the center channel clarity? What is the placement like, is it inside an A/V cabinet, or....?
 

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Is it just your wife, or do you feel the same way about the center channel clarity? What is the placement like, is it inside an A/V cabinet, or....?
My center channel is on a stand below the projector screen. Overall it sounds good to me but there are occasions when i may miss something that was said.

Would it help to maybe play around with the center channel DB in the setup for the speakers? Am i better off doing this and if i decide to invest anymore money look into perhaps a better 4k player.

I have some acoustic panels in the room, but maybe i need to add some more. :):) Unfortunately based on the dimensions and layout of the room i dont have a lot of room to mess with speaker placement.
 

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If you have a stand-alone level meter, test levels from the MLP, most specifically the LCR, and then test them again from where your wife sits and see if there’s a large discrepancy. This would identify a leveling issue, or too narrow of a sweet spot defined by ARC.

I’ve also seen people improve upon your situation by lowering the Center channel crossover from 80 to 70, just to prevent voices from being split as often. This could identify a basic EQ issue that may or may not be solvable with ARC, or room treatments.

One other thing to try, just for fun, is to identify a problem scene, find a way to raise your center channel to ear height, and rewatch the scene to see if that makes an improvement. This would identify a placement issue if you hear a big improvement in dialog clarity.

Just some free things to try to narrow down your focus.

Is it just your wife, or do you feel the same way about the center channel clarity? What is the placement like, is it inside an A/V cabinet, or....?
My center channel is on a stand below the projector screen. Overall it sounds good to me but there are occasions when i may miss something that was said.

Would it help to maybe play around with the center channel DB in the setup for the speakers? Am i better off doing this and if i decide to invest anymore money look into perhaps a better 4k player.

I have some acoustic panels in the room, but maybe i need to add some more. /forum/images/smilies/smile.gif/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif Unfortunately based on the dimensions and layout of the room i dont have a lot of room to mess with speaker placement.
 

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My center channel is on a stand below the projector screen. Overall it sounds good to me but there are occasions when i may miss something that was said.

Would it help to maybe play around with the center channel DB in the setup for the speakers? Am i better off doing this and if i decide to invest anymore money look into perhaps a better 4k player.

I have some acoustic panels in the room, but maybe i need to add some more. :):) Unfortunately based on the dimensions and layout of the room i dont have a lot of room to mess with speaker placement.
Don’t discount the possibility that a lot of newer films and TV shows have really poor dialog mixing. The dynamic range for dialog is excessive....lots of very soft spoken passages....whispers even, and they get buried in music and sound effects.

No question you should investigate all manner of setup adjustments that are available. Your Anthem also had Dolby EQ and Volume....try experimenting with that.

FWIW, in my household, I am the one that struggles with dialog...my wife seems to hear everything perfectly...or so she says. :)
 

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Is this with in-walls overall or regards to Anthem ARC? Do you have a link? I have a full set of GoldenEar in-walls sitting in boxes ready to be installed. This would be a bummer.

I’m not sure how to post a link, but just search in YouTube for Audioholics. Actually, the video questions the value of room correction in general, showing how many people couldn’t tell the difference between corrected and uncorrected rooms, and that on some cases (particularly in bad spaces and with inferior equipment) actually made the sound worse. Gene specifically mentioned how room correction mishandles bass response in in walls. I’m sure ARC is a great RC solution, but I wouldn’t use any RC until I had first optimally positioned my speakers, have a good room to work with, and good quality speakers. I would also not correct high frequencies.
Watch the video and see what you think. Gene is interviewing an expert on RC, who has experience with both Audyssey and Dirac.


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Hi All.

I am an owner of an Anthem MRX 1120 and wanted to get some feedback about possibly adding a power amplifier for my Front Left/Center/Right. My current configuration in my dedicated media room is a 7.2.2.

Mains - Martin Logan Motion 40i + 50XT center.
Surround L/R - Martin Logan EM IW in walls
Surround Back L/R - Martin Logan Motion 4i.
Atmos - Martin Logan EM IC in ceiling

My media room is about 12 by 12 so i've had to make some compromises with my surrounds. The ML speakers are 4 ohm and the MRX 1120 does a good job but i'm looking for ways to improve my overall setup. My understanding is that with two channels driven, the MRX produces 140w for channels 1 - 5 into 8 ohms and 60W into 8 ohms for the remaining channels

What would be the benefit of adding a 3 or 5 channel amp to the overall configuration?

Has anyone done something similar that can share any feedback?

Any feedback would be appreciated.
I'm really a novice when it comes to this, but I'm wondering if one of the benefits of external amplification would to take some "heat" off of the receiver's main amp, and preserve the life of it. However, you're room isn't demanding a lot of output power, especially if you have efficient speakers, the internal amp should work great. In a 12' x 12' room, I would think with proper ventilation and maybe even two smaller AC Infinity type fans, you'd keep the amp running in the mid 70s to low 80s with the five main channels running. I use a two-fan system on the sides exporting the hot air out, and my top main fan stays silent and the receiver runs 75-80 degrees.

(EDIT) I missed that your front speakers are 4 Ohms. The 1120 will handle that, but I'm wondering if that makes it run hotter and is using more power. Again, 12'x12' is a much smaller area to fill will with sound than most of us with larger rooms that open up to other spaces.

I also wonder it the square room is hurting the overall sound. I have read that square rooms can be bass killers, so I'm wondering if it does the same to overall front stage as well.

The reason I say preserve the life is that I have seen some really great deals on Audiogon that my audio dealer's salesman says to be careful with because of the power supplies workload over the years.

I bought the MRX1120 because I didn't have the money at the time to buy the AVM-60 and an external amp. It was essentially $500 more with an excellent onboard Amplifier. I would love to upgrade to the MCA325 (I've been waiting 2-years for this deal as they either didn't offer it last year, or I just didn't look at the right time), but it's not an ideal time financially for me to do so at this time.

If there are any forum members that would respond my first few paragraphs with their experience and knowledge, please do so. I would like to see if what I wrote is accurate. If not I would appreciate it if you would educate me on this. I am always learning by reading others or what I've gleamed from in conversations at audio stores.
 

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Hi All.

I am an owner of an Anthem MRX 1120 and wanted to get some feedback about possibly adding a power amplifier for my Front Left/Center/Right. My current configuration in my dedicated media room is a 7.2.2.

Mains - Martin Logan Motion 40i + 50XT center.
Surround L/R - Martin Logan EM IW in walls
Surround Back L/R - Martin Logan Motion 4i.
Atmos - Martin Logan EM IC in ceiling

My media room is about 12 by 12 so i've had to make some compromises with my surrounds. The ML speakers are 4 ohm and the MRX 1120 does a good job but i'm looking for ways to improve my overall setup. My understanding is that with two channels driven, the MRX produces 140w for channels 1 - 5 into 8 ohms and 60W into 8 ohms for the remaining channels

What would be the benefit of adding a 3 or 5 channel amp to the overall configuration?

Has anyone done something similar that can share any feedback?

Any feedback would be appreciated.
I'm really a novice when it comes to this, but I'm wondering if one of the benefits of external amplification would to take some "heat" off of the receiver's main amp, and preserve the life of it. However, you're room isn't demanding a lot of output power, especially if you have efficient speakers. In a 12' x 12' room, I would think with proper ventilation and maybe even two smaller AC Infinity type fans, you'd keep the amp running in the mid 70s to low 80s with the five main channels running. I use a two-fan system on the sides exporting the hot air out, and my top main fan stays silent and the receiver runs 75-80 degrees.

The reason I say preserve the life is that I have seen some really great deals on Audiogon that my audio dealer's salesman says to be careful with because of the power supplies workload over the years.

I bought the MRX1120 because I didn't have the money at the time to buy the AVM-60 and an external amp. It was essentially $500 more with an excellent onboard Amplifier. I would love to upgrade to the MCA325 (I've been waiting 2-years for this deal as they either didn't offer it last year, or I just didn't look at the right time), but it's not an ideal time financially for me to do so at this time.

If there are any forum members that would respond my first paragraph with their experience and knowledge, please do so. I would like to see if what I wrote is accurate. If not I would appreciate it if you would educate me on this. I am always learning by reading others or what I've gleamed from in conversations at audio stores.
Don’t confuse power supplies with the power amp section.

For me, the benefits to running separate power amplifiers vs an AVR is that separate amps tend to be rated more accurately, while AVRs are exaggerated, and reported power is often with only 2ch driven, and that power capability decreases with each additional channel that you ask it to drive.

Also, when you invest in a good power amp, it should last a very long time, vs the processing features that are continuously being updated and advanced.

I still would not say I have great power amps, but they are good, and will suffice until I can upgrade them.

My last AVR before going separates sounded great at medium volume, but when I tried to push it to movie levels, you could hear it hitting the wall. As I increased the volume, the dynamic range disappeared and the muscle deteriorated. It wasn’t powerful enough for my room.

I’ve not had any such problems at any volume since going separates. The Anthem is the 3rd pre-pro I have used with the same amp, and I recently added a second amp of the same line for my height channels.

There’s nothing wrong with the Anthem amps in their AVRs, they’re certainly going to be better equipped than a Sony or Yamaha AVR. It’s just been my experience that you get more useable power across the entire volume range with separate amps.

YMMV.
 

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Don’t confuse power supplies with the power amp section.

For me, the benefits to running separate power amplifiers vs an AVR is that separate amps tend to be rated more accurately, while AVRs are exaggerated, and reported power is often with only 2ch driven, and that power capability decreases with each additional channel that you ask it to drive.

Also, when you invest in a good power amp, it should last a very long time, vs the processing features that are continuously being updated and advanced.

I still would not say I have great power amps, but they are good, and will suffice until I can upgrade them.

My last AVR before going separates sounded great at medium volume, but when I tried to push it to movie levels, you could hear it hitting the wall. As I increased the volume, the dynamic range disappeared and the muscle deteriorated. It wasn’t powerful enough for my room.

I’ve not had any such problems at any volume since going separates. The Anthem is the 3rd pre-pro I have used with the same amp, and I recently added a second amp of the same line for my height channels.

There’s nothing wrong with the Anthem amps in their AVRs, they’re certainly going to be better equipped than a Sony or Yamaha AVR. It’s just been my experience that you get more useable power across the entire volume range with separate amps.

YMMV.
Thank you for clarifying the power supply section vs. the power amp section. From what remember it was more about the power supply section as heat and usage over the time can damage/drain the capacitors, and they would need to be replaced.

I agree with you on the external amp for the dedicated power that can be drawn on for HT watching. The extra Head-room is there when needed. I also agree with you about the specs between a receiver and external amp. I hate that companies exaggerate the power. Most are with 2-channels running at .1% or even 1% THD. Sometimes it's at 4ohms. Why won't they just tell us the overall power (450w max) with a reserve (stored wattage for peak) the amp can generate?

I was referring more to @swifteddie1's 12'x12' room, especially if the MLP is within the 8'-10' range. My reasoning comes from the info below. I believe it's most likely an oversimplification and there are other factors (more math/physics) involved. I agree that YMMV though since we all listen at different levels and have different room sizes.

Sound and Vision's "Test Bench" measured the left channel at 69 watts with 7 channels driven. 69 watts provide ample amount of volume to smaller rooms with efficient speakers. You would be reaching the upper limits of power needed for explosions and louder music scenes (John Wick 1 and 2) for instance.

Home Theater Gurus have a video "How much power do you need for your home theater" (episode 17). It gives some insight on how the seating distance from your speaker affects the volume you need to play your speakers at in order to have the same level from a distance closer or further away. In the video, at 3' Away drops 4dB. Doubling it to 6' drops another 4dB. So if the MLP for this 12'x12' room is at say 9', it's down about 6dB (estimated).

I have no idea what the specs are for @swifteddie1's speakers, but if I were to use my Kef R700s and my MLP, here's the wattage I'm realistically using from my receiver. My room is 14' x 17'. The speakers are on the 17' wall. We are 13' from the speakers giving us about 13-14dB drop-off. This takes my speakers down to about 79dB with 1-watt. To get to 100dB, 64-watts is needed. I will need to use REW to calculate what my actual levels are to see how close to 100dB I'm getting. My L/C/R speakers are set at +8/+10/+8 by Genesis, and stay between -30 and -40 when watching TV and movies. I understand this is not reference, so an external amp would definitely be nice. One of either MCA 225 or 325 would be the ticket for me.

Chances are in the 12'x12' room he only needs the 64 watts.

Again, I'm learning as I go, and this might only be partially accurate. The videos I watch could be grossly oversimplified to help people like me who are newer to really thinking more in depth about how sound, equipment, and listening area all relate.
 

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You are correct on all points here.

Which is why my original post on this matter was that he should investigate room treatment or speaker placement to address his issues, rather than a separate power amp. :)

Don’️t confuse power supplies with the power amp section.

For me, the benefits to running separate power amplifiers vs an AVR is that separate amps tend to be rated more accurately, while AVRs are exaggerated, and reported power is often with only 2ch driven, and that power capability decreases with each additional channel that you ask it to drive.

Also, when you invest in a good power amp, it should last a very long time, vs the processing features that are continuously being updated and advanced.

I still would not say I have great power amps, but they are good, and will suffice until I can upgrade them.

My last AVR before going separates sounded great at medium volume, but when I tried to push it to movie levels, you could hear it hitting the wall. As I increased the volume, the dynamic range disappeared and the muscle deteriorated. It wasn’️t powerful enough for my room.

I’️ve not had any such problems at any volume since going separates. The Anthem is the 3rd pre-pro I have used with the same amp, and I recently added a second amp of the same line for my height channels.

There’️s nothing wrong with the Anthem amps in their AVRs, they’️re certainly going to be better equipped than a Sony or Yamaha AVR. It’️s just been my experience that you get more useable power across the entire volume range with separate amps.

YMMV.
Thank you for clarifying the power supply section vs. the power amp section. From what remember it was more about the power supply section as heat and usage over the time can damage/drain the capacitors, and they would need to be replaced.

I agree with you on the external amp for the dedicated power that can be drawn on for HT watching. The extra Head-room is there when needed. I also agree with you about the specs between a receiver and external amp. I hate that companies exaggerate the power. Most are with 2-channels running at .1% or even 1% THD. Sometimes it's at 4ohms. Why won't they just tell us the overall power (450w max) with a reserve (stored wattage for peak) the amp can generate?

I was referring more to @swifteddie1's 12'x12' room, especially if the MLP is within the 8'-10' range. My reasoning comes from the info below. I believe it's most likely an oversimplification and there are other factors (more math/physics) involved. I agree that YMMV though since we all listen at different levels and have different room sizes.

Sound and Vision's "Test Bench" measured the left channel at 69 watts with 7 channels driven. 69 watts provide ample amount of volume to smaller rooms with efficient speakers. You would be reaching the upper limits of power needed for explosions and louder music scenes (John Wick 1 and 2) for instance.

Home Theater Gurus have a video "How much power do you need for your home theater" (episode 17). It gives some insight on how the seating distance from your speaker affects the volume you need to play your speakers at in order to have the same level from a distance closer or further away. In the video, at 3' Away drops 4dB. Doubling it to 6' drops another 4dB. So if the MLP for this 12'x12' room is at say 9', it's down about 6dB (estimated).

I have no idea what the specs are for @swifteddie1's speakers, but if I were to use my Kef R700s and my MLP, here's the wattage I'm realistically using from my receiver. My room is 14' x 17'. The speakers are on the 17' wall. We are 13' from the speakers giving us about 13-14dB drop-off. This takes my speakers down to about 79dB with 1-watt. To get to 100dB, 64-watts is needed. I will need to use REW to calculate what my actual levels are to see how close to 100dB I'm getting. My L/C/R speakers are set at +8/+10/+8 by Genesis, and stay between -30 and -40 when watching TV and movies. I understand this is not reference, so an external amp would definitely be nice. One of either MCA 225 or 325 would be the ticket for me.

Chances are in the 12'x12' room he only needs the 64 watts.

Again, I'm learning as I go, and this might only be partially accurate. The videos I watch could be grossly oversimplified to help people like me who are newer to really thinking more in depth about how sound, equipment, and listening area all relate.
 

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I’m not sure how to post a link, but just search in YouTube for Audioholics. Actually, the video questions the value of room correction in general, showing how many people couldn’t tell the difference between corrected and uncorrected rooms, and that on some cases (particularly in bad spaces and with inferior equipment) actually made the sound worse. Gene specifically mentioned how room correction mishandles bass response in in walls. I’m sure ARC is a great RC solution, but I wouldn’t use any RC until I had first optimally positioned my speakers, have a good room to work with, and good quality speakers. I would also not correct high frequencies.
Watch the video and see what you think. Gene is interviewing an expert on RC, who has experience with both Audyssey and Dirac.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Thanks for the reply. I will find the YouTube video and watch it. I spent $8k on my Goldenear speakers (3 Invisa SPS & 8 HTR 7000's), I hope I'm not disappointed. I'm replacing Speakercraft in-walls (5.1) that I could never get tuned to my satisfaction.
 

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If you have a stand-alone level meter, test levels from the MLP, most specifically the LCR, and then test them again from where your wife sits and see if there’s a large discrepancy. This would identify a leveling issue, or too narrow of a sweet spot defined by ARC.

I’ve also seen people improve upon your situation by lowering the Center channel crossover from 80 to 70, just to prevent voices from being split as often. This could identify a basic EQ issue that may or may not be solvable with ARC, or room treatments.

One other thing to try, just for fun, is to identify a problem scene, find a way to raise your center channel to ear height, and rewatch the scene to see if that makes an improvement. This would identify a placement issue if you hear a big improvement in dialog clarity.

Just some free things to try to narrow down your focus.
Thanks for the suggestion - ill try tinkering with the crossover on the center channel to see if that improves things.
 

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I have no idea what the specs are for @swifteddie1's speakers, but if I were to use my Kef R700s and my MLP, here's the wattage I'm realistically using from my receiver. My room is 14' x 17'. The speakers are on the 17' wall. We are 13' from the speakers giving us about 13-14dB drop-off. This takes my speakers down to about 79dB with 1-watt. To get to 100dB, 64-watts is needed. I will need to use REW to calculate what my actual levels are to see how close to 100dB I'm getting. My L/C/R speakers are set at +8/+10/+8 by Genesis, and stay between -30 and -40 when watching TV and movies. I understand this is not reference, so an external amp would definitely be nice. One of either MCA 225 or 325 would be the ticket for me.
The Martin Logan sensitivity specs are below

Motion 40i specs - 92db/2.83 (Front L/R)
Motion 50xt - 94db (Center)
EM IW - 90db (Surround L/R)
Motion 4i - 90db (Surround Back L/R)

All of these have an impedance of 4 ohms but are compatible with 4, 6 or 8 ohm rated amplifiers.

My MLP is about 10ft from them the fronts.

I'm curious to know with those specs what wattage i'm actually using from the 1120.
 
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