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How can one confirm x900h has better qc since it is just released, and some people already has that motion setting bug is not good qc in sony's part.

QC near ubiquitously, in this context, applies to the physical aspect of the product I.e banding, vignetting, DSE, stuck/dead pixels.

If you want to talk about software issues then I’ve got a lot to say about Vizio and Samsung.


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Well, after further review, I don't think I can pull the trigger on this Sony. I really really wanted to get the 85 incher. But coming from the Q9FN, it seems like I'd be downgrading too much, especially after the Rtings review. The HDR performance, overall brightness, and reflection handling are the main concerns holding me back. Knowing me, I just wouldn't be able to enjoy the Sony, knowing that the picture isn't as punchy or bright, especially in my room. The differences seem significant to me. I think I just need to get to a Costco or Best Buy to see it in person to confirm everything before I give up my 85 inch dream. I haven't watched Vincent's review yet, so maybe he'll change my mind. :D
Don't let numbers and such influence your decision. I have the Costco XBR85X90CH for about 2 weeks and just out the box this TV is fantastic. I know lots of guys on this forum are complaining, but I think that the material you look at will determine how it shows. For HD and UHD the picture is stunning. YouTube 4k videos is the same. The brightness is more than you'll ever need. I currently have some of my settings turned down as the set is very bright.
I don't know if anyone has tried the rtings settings on their set. Yesterday, I set mine on custom and used the settings 10p. However, I made some adjustments differently on the other functional settings etc. I am currently reviewing these changes and will let you know what happens.
Note: rtings reported some wrong information. eg, they indicated that the Netflix configuration allows you to adjust brightness, however, all these options becomes disabled once the Netflix mode is selected. I forget the others that were inconsistent. This is a large TV and it may not be perfect, but it is damn close if you happen to get a good unit.

good luck,
 

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Long time lurker guys. Great banter.

May I ask, if/when Sony release the updates for HDMI 2.1 etc.. - do the improvements in theory only help improve picture quality etc. for video games or would such an update improve essentially the entire TV (internal Apps picture quality, Apple TV picture quality etc.)?

I currently have an LG OLED B6 (55") I believe it is. Had it for a while. Thinking of going to a 65".
 

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Long time lurker guys. Great banter.

May I ask, if/when Sony release the updates for HDMI 2.1 etc.. - do the improvements in theory only help improve picture quality etc. for video games or would such an update improve essentially the entire TV (internal Apps picture quality, Apple TV picture quality etc.)?

I currently have an LG OLED B6 (55") I believe it is. Had it for a while. Thinking of going to a 65".
The HDMI 2.1 feature addition is not about PQ, it's about additional features.

The added eARC will be useful for those with an ATMOS setup and VRR/ALLM will be useful for gamers.

Any tuning they do to dimming algorithms, OS tweaks or anything like that would be aside from the HDMI 2.1 features being added.
 

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The HDMI 2.1 feature addition is not about PQ, it's about additional features.

The added eARC will be useful for those with an ATMOS setup and VRR/ALLM will be useful for gamers.

Any tuning they do to dimming algorithms, OS tweaks or anything like that would be aside from the HDMI 2.1 features being added.

Thank you!
 

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How can one confirm x900h has better qc since it is just released, and some people already has that motion setting bug is not good qc in sony's part.
For me, the X900H is essentially perfect, though I am not as hardcore as many of the people in these forums, but this darn Motion bug is driving me insane! I have had four Sony TV's in my history, while two of them were absolutely perfect (KDL-40W600B and XBR-43X800D), two of them have major bugs (the Motionflow bug mentioned with this X900H, and a similar bug where my 43X830C would show the wrong color space when switching to HDR, which was eventually fixed in a software update).
 

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If I had waited for reviews, I may have been in the same boat... But, after owning this TV, I am very happy and a bit surprised at the "issues" these reviewers find. I'm not even sure what microblocking & fluctuations are, but I get no posterization and I can't say I've seen any blooming issues outside of a game load screen. And, before I bought the 65" X900H, I bought a 55" B9 and just wasn't impressed for the price (so I returned ). X90 really is a best value all-arounder tv. If you're constantly analyzing picture quality instead of engaging in the content, maybe you'll need to settle paying $600+ more for a TV.

For me it was:
65" X900h - $1200
Q80T - $1800
B9/X - $1800-2100

I am still holding out for the new Vizio lines but they don't seem like they'll even actually come out in the near future to see review comparison's before my Costco 90-day return is up.
Micro blocking are the Motionflow artifacts around edges in fast moving scens. You need more processing power in order to minimize them.

Fluctuations I think is when the backlight dimming algorithm is late or overcompensating for drastic scene changes, like going from a dark to bright to dark scene very quickly, eg flickering broken lights in a move.
 
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But don't the 2020 Samsungs crush some black details unnecessarily to achieve their lack of blooming? This was my understanding. I'm torn between a Q90T and the X900H - they seem like the only decent options this year, especially if you're looking to future-proof and plan on playing games. I don't upgrade very often (my current TV is now 12 yrs old, the still great 52" Samsung A650, if that tells you anything).

This is where I am:

  • OLED is a no-go because I game a good bit and don't want to have to stress out about burn-in.
  • Vizio is a no-go because I'm in a small room and sit too close for a 65" (I'd actually prefer a 49", but you can't get the features I want on a 49").
  • LG LED is a no-go due to bad blacks on IPS panels.
  • Sony X950H would be perfect if it had HDMI 2.1 support, but...
  • I hear horror stories about reliability in the Hisense TVs.
So that just leaves the Samsung Q90T and the Sony X900H, as I agree the Q80T doesn't seem like enough of a step up from the X900H for the price.

However there are still issues with both:

Q90T:
  • Lots of reports of dust stuck inside panels and dead pixels.
  • Inverse ghosting with VRR was fixed but regular ghosting still exists.
  • Crushes black details (or so I understand).
  • Nearly twice the price of the X900H.
  • eARC dropout with Atomos.
X900H:
  • Interpolation settings bug.
  • Lots of reports of DSE / bars.
  • Far lower contrast and peak brightness than the Q90T.
  • HDMI 2.1 is still an unknown (when will it come? Will it work well when it does? - no way to know)
Of course I could wait until next year, but the drive towards 8K deeply worries me, as it will up the price of TVs with the features I want with no discernable gain, and a lot of very real downsides. (I want HDMI 2.1 not so much for the 4K / 120hz, but more for VRR, lip sync, eARC and the other nice HDMI 2.1 features). 8K is functionally useless as a consumer format unless you plan on sitting closer than 3 feet from your TV, which, well, good luck with that. It's also nonsensical because the pixel density means you need a brighter backlight than you would on a 4K TV.

So I've got no idea what to do.
Sounds like decision paralysis due to too much information. How about picking the 1-2 most critical factors only and deciding from that. Or if you see them as equal but different, pick something like price or value as the deciding factor.

If you can’t decide, then just wait. At some point you’ll either get impatient and decide what actually matters, something new might become available and tip the scales, or just look at other TVs and forget these since they don’t seem to be pulling you towards a purchase.

Good luck. There’s not really a perfect TV. If there was, we’d all have it.
 

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Micro blocking are the Motionflow artifacts around edges in fast moving scens. You need more processing power in order to minimize them.

Fluctuations I think is when the backlight dimming algorithm is late or overcompensating for drastic scene changes, like going from a dark to bright to dark scene very quickly, eg flickering broken lights in a move.
Think it’s funny that Vincent buried the lead....900H is a great value TV with some issues that may bother perfectionists or those bothered by specific issues common to many TVs.

Had he said that, people would take his information as what better than this can I get for the $.

I would also like these reviews to shift to being mostly “TVs in this price range” as the tech and directions companies are taking deliberately make them less effectively comparable by pure measurements testing. Kind of like people test cars in their price range and then only compare them to direct competitors. Can’t even compare old generations of cars to new ones from the same brand very well because of the generational changes. But it’s very easy to make the decision when it comes to what drives the way I want and has the features I want for the price I want to pay. You stop worrying about what the other brands do when that core mindset is finalized. Same thing with TVs. It’s just that people don’t see the YT car reviewers as “experts” even though they do as much or more detailed breakdowns.
 

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I have the 65", May date, from Amazon.



I do not have the black bars. There is some DSE; it is not bad, and I have not noticed it in regular content. Otherwise, the picture is gorgeous.



I do not know why people doubt that Sony will upgrade the HDMI ports on this one. They have delivered in the past. I have the 55" X850A and it came out with promised HDMI 2.0. It only supported 1.4 off the factory floor. They delivered on their promise of a firmware update to enable 2.0 specs by the end of 2013.
 

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But don't the 2020 Samsungs crush some black details unnecessarily to achieve their lack of blooming? This was my understanding.
...
So that just leaves the Samsung Q90T and the Sony X900H, as I agree the Q80T doesn't seem like enough of a step up from the X900H for the price.

However there are still issues with both:

Q90T:
  • Lots of reports of dust stuck inside panels and dead pixels.
  • Inverse ghosting with VRR was fixed but regular ghosting still exists.
  • Crushes black details (or so I understand).
  • Nearly twice the price of the X900H.
  • eARC dropout with Atomos.
X900H:
  • Interpolation settings bug.
  • Lots of reports of DSE / bars.
  • Far lower contrast and peak brightness than the Q90T.
  • HDMI 2.1 is still an unknown (when will it come? Will it work well when it does? - no way to know)
...
Unfortunately I think that based on the evidence from the RTINGS review and Vincent's video it is clear that Sony has implemented a Samsung-like backlight algorithm on the X900H. This is proven in the fact that the HDR nit level is lower for a 2% and 10% window than a 25% window. You also see this in the RTINGS local dimming test where the leading edge of the shapes is dimmed and smaller items such as the swirling dot are dimmed to point of turning the white cirlce grey. At 6:12 in his review Vincent also witnessed similar Samsung-like behavior with the Gravity test footage where the X900H demonstrated backlight fluctuations very much like the Samsung Q80 and Q90 series. This behavior was not present on the X950H and can can be viewed at 6:10 in Vincent's review video for that TV.
 

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Think it’s funny that Vincent buried the lead....900H is a great value TV with some issues that may bother perfectionists or those bothered by specific issues common to many TVs.

Had he said that, people would take his information as what better than this can I get for the $.

I would also like these reviews to shift to being mostly “TVs in this price range” as the tech and directions companies are taking deliberately make them less effectively comparable by pure measurements testing. Kind of like people test cars in their price range and then only compare them to direct competitors. Can’t even compare old generations of cars to new ones from the same brand very well because of the generational changes. But it’s very easy to make the decision when it comes to what drives the way I want and has the features I want for the price I want to pay. You stop worrying about what the other brands do when that core mindset is finalized. Same thing with TVs. It’s just that people don’t see the YT car reviewers as “experts” even though they do as much or more detailed breakdowns.
I think it's funny how we rationalize reviews when we hear what we don't like. The format is the same as it is for all his reviews, there's no burying the lead.

I'm just thankful that someone takes the time to do such a comprehensive review. If you want lots of happy talk stick to Digital Trends, Vincent's reviews are geared more towards television enthusiasts.
 

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Micro blocking are the Motionflow artifacts around edges in fast moving scens. You need more processing power in order to minimize them.

Fluctuations I think is when the backlight dimming algorithm is late or overcompensating for drastic scene changes, like going from a dark to bright to dark scene very quickly, eg flickering broken lights in a move.

I’ve yet to see micro blocking on my X900H. I’ve seen it consistently on my X900F though.

I’m really curious to see what firmware updates may bring to the table as far as PQ improvements go.


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Post Vincent and rtings confirmed my view that the X900H is an overall better performer than the Samsung Q80T at least for my usage case. And among the non budget brands you have to step up to the notability more expensive Q90T to do better if you want good contrast ratio and black levels.

Of course if you watch a lot of golf or tennis you'll probably be a lot happier with the Sony. Same goes if you're picky about color accuracy and saturation. But the Q90T will have better HDR at least with high APL scenes, less distractions from blooming especially for subtitles, better control of black levels and rendering of low bit rate content.
I had just bought the q80 from costco to replace my failed q6 2018 panel. The picture was horrible compared to the q6, samsung really downgraded their panels over the years. The screen gloss just reflected everything in my house also. I returned it and picked up the x90 from costco which they say is the same as the x900. Picture is amazing quality, screen does seem to have more glare than my q6. Thinking i will keep the x90. crazy that the q8 was close to 800 more for the 85". not worth it in my opinion.
 

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I don't blame you at all about the black vertical bars. I don't watch hockey but I would imagine that would be a huge deal breaker for anyone. I admit I haven't seen Sony have issues recently with panel lottery on their models. I don't remember there being an issue with the 900F or my 940C before it.

I am definitely not pinning it on the 65" size as plenty of people have good ones in this thread from Costco, Best Buy etc. However that seems to be the model size most people have posted with issues in this thread (and again that's from Costco, Best Buy, etc). I personally would try for one more swap or even consider another size if you had the space. I agree that some people are more sensitive to certain issues more than others. I remember showing my wife an issues I noticed on my 940C a few years ago and she couldn't see it. The fact you can see the black bars on your tv while on a white screen is concerning (I believe you had mentioned that awhile back). I don't see that on mine but then again I haven't spent a ton of time looking for it. When my tv arrived I did look for banding (which might be what you are seeing) but I didn't see anything that stuck out on a white screen so I dropped it. I think I also dropped it for my own sanity as I was reading to much into this thread at the time (during banding gate :)).

The vignetting is normal. My 900F had it also. You will notice it occasionally but it will become a non issue for you.

Mine is being mounted above a gas fireplace, so 65" is the absolute biggest I can go with. I'd hate to downgrade to a 55", just because of QC issues on the 65". At that point, I'd just get another TV. I am going to try an exchange though, to see if it's any better. Thanks for the advice. :)
 

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Mine is being mounted above a gas fireplace, so 65" is the absolute biggest I can go with. I'd hate to downgrade to a 55", just because of QC issues on the 65". At that point, I'd just get another TV. I am going to try an exchange though, to see if it's any better. Thanks for the advice. :)

Crossing my fingers you get a good replacement!
 

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Tough Decision

Hi Guys, I have beaten this and other threads to death trying to decide on a TV for a new house we are now in. Been using a 30" TCL for the last 3 weeks so times are tough. Seen the Q80T and 900H at Costco and was impressed with the deep blacks and bright image on the Q80T. Not so much on the X900H. I have a feeling that this is more due to the demo videos on the 2 sets which are different of course. The Q80T video really focuses on HDR w deep blacks and bright foreground, the X900H seems more focused on motion. I'm not buying a demo video so I'm not sure I learned a lot from Costco. This forum is so positive on this TV I have been leaning that way. The Q80T forum really just pines away for the Q80R. They seem to feel Samsung has crippled their LCD's this year. Finally RTings and Vincent's reviews the other day. I was crushed, RTings 8.0? That sucks... And Vincent, really not impressed w the new SoC. This morning I looked at the more detailed scores on RTings and was surprised how much their scoring is impacted by the 2.1 features not being present in the current x900H. Once those features are added I think the updated Sony score will likely beat the Q80T's 8.4 overall score. Vincent's issues are a bit more of a concern, he is clearly a very sharp reviewer. I am hopeful that since this is Sony's first effort with this new SoC that it's capabilities will improve as updates become available. After all, I assume that this new SoC is going to be implemented in probably most of their 2021 TV's so making it the best it can be should be a priority for them. The Vizio sounds like a cancer cure and I suppose it could be, but considering their build problems and the delay for the 85" I'll probably have to throw them out. I watch a lot of CNBC so I'm sure i'd have burn-in on an OLED in a week or so.
I haven't looked at TV's for several years and was frankly expecting this to be easy. Lots of choices, everyone having too many features, just a matter of how big and how much money. But jeez, 8k? HDMI 2.1 ?? They should all have had HDMI 2.1 last year. And 8k, come on, gonna need water cooled ethernet to support 2 TV's streaming 8k. I read an article a year ago pretty much saying very few people can even see a real difference in 4K media let alone 8K. But that's where all the vendors seem to be putting their effort.
For me, I think the X900H is probably going to be my choice. Would love to see a real review of one of the smaller Vizio's to maybe make me wait for their 85. Not sure I can wait that long for a cancer cure, I don't even have cancer. This forum has been super helpful, thank you all for your contributions.
 
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