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I don't like/dislike Vincent. I listen to his findings though. My point of burying the lead is that going through the issues he have with the TV and then concluding it's probably one of the better values right now is the very definition of burying the lead.

Had he said, "This TV is a great value for what it is, but it does have some faults that keep if from being a 100% recommendation ..." it would be clear that he generally likes the TV. The way it's currently there, it's not so clear and the ending of pretty good value seems a bit conflicting with the body of the review. That's all.
We'll have to agree to disagree. He goes through the strengths and weakness of the television point by point. He then summarizes the review and puts the television in its market context. There is nothing that's misleading or conflicting. Even televisions that receive the best in class designation don't escape his methodical critique.

Edit: I personally don't care what designation he gives a television, I do my own evaluation based on the points he outlines.
 

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Discussion Starter #3,182
I'm thinking maybe different regions are getting different panels hence Vincents findings like higher input lag for example.


Internet speed tests via wireless gives me almost 300mb down.
 

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Ordered a 55” and definitely looking forward to it! I’ll admit after seeing some of the reviews/hearing some of the opinions seem to shift against the tv it’s a bit discerning, but I have to keep reminding myself that it’s highly situational...for instance the tv I have currently is an LG 43UH6500 (2016) so this looks to be quite the improvement in almost every aspect over it and is future proof at a reasonable price to boot.

When doing the comparison on Rtings I was actually surprised to see the tv I have now only has a peak HDR brightness of 340 cd/m2, poor grey/black uniformity and a high response time but as funny as it sounds I kind of got used to these things over the past few years and even turned the brightness/contrast down a fair bit so they were never really quite pressing issues to me.

Anyone have a similar experience upgrading to this from an earlier 4k tv (2016-ish or prior even)? What were some of the immediate things in the x900h that stood out as an improvement/drawback to you?
I have the Sony XBR65X930D which I bought in 2016 and I bought the 65X900H a few weeks ago. The 930D was supposedly Sony's best 4k LCD at the time and the price showed it; then the Z9D came out a few months later in 2016 and was considered to be Sony's new best TV. It was too expensive for me so I stuck with the 930D, which to me was a pretty good set with nice 4k and HDR, but there was blooming and the home screen response was slow when clicking on apps or settings, etc.

I can tell you without a doubt that the 900H for it's price is fantastic. The HDR picture is way better than the 930D, and the Dolby Vision which the 930D does not have, is gorgeous on Netflix calibrated. The black levels to me are so close to OLED you can't tell the difference unless you have an OLED set right next to the 900H and even then it is difficult to tell which is blacker. My friend has an LG OLED B6 so I know what good blacks are. Blooming on the 900H is barely visible compared to the 930D, there is always going to be blooming on an LCD but that's where Local Dimming comes in to reduce it to almost negligible. The other major improvement I noticed is the home screen response when using the remote; blazing fast and that was the one of the first things that Vincent Teoh of HDTV Test mentioned in his review on Youtube.
 

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Funny. This is the Sony owner's page, and I see so many comments from other (Vizio, Samsung primarily) owners complaining about this TV. This TV is new - return if it doesn't meet your wants. As to Samsung, they can make good things, but they often cut corners in some weird ways. Exploding washer, failed TVs, flaming phone - have had them all. For me to go back to this company would mean I'd have to forget my consumer experience that's been more bad than good.

I was willing to give Vizio a chance, but the 85" TV just isn't available.

Also, these test reviews are not the same as owner experience. That's why these forums help - can help iron out some issues or find real-life limitations from people who have it.

BTW, what TV does Vincent own from money out of his pocket? I'm sure his test decisions slightly differ from his purchase decisions. If not, he'd have one of those $30K+ wall-paper LGs OLEDs or something like that.
Agree about Samsung, done with them. Last couple years product has been OK at best. the support is one of the worst out there I have experienced. As i near the end of fazing out all of the Samsung products I have (alot), I couldn't be happier to wave them a fond farewell. There are other organizations that will be happy to take my money.
 

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The conversation was about the technologies themselves and the differences between them which is undeniable. I would disagree that latency--even in a home network--is a non-issue. It depends on the gear and the use case but it is still a constraint that needs to be designed around. I'm not personally a fan of a routing engine and AP on the same hardware but most consumers designed their networks that way and I've seen that combination cause latency at the hardware level. It's not how my network is but that's the audience I'm speaking to.

Jitter needs to be considered for more than just teleconferencing...I was eluding to VoIP which is very susceptible to jitter and will be a concern if one is building their access layer around WiFi not mention it adds a host of other issues that need to be considered.

While it may not be 802.11b, it's still a half-duplex medium with the same constraints of any other half-duplex medium and if you're doing a network design you want to mitigate/eliminate those as much as possible and design around them.

Network Engineer here also :) I'm an edge engineer mainly responsible for BGP/iBGP at the ISP I work for. I look at WiFi through the same lens as I do BGP--which as a Network Engineer I'm sure you do too. Once something leaves our ASN what control do we have over it? None. We can influence, We can suggest, but ultimately we can't tell someone else what to do with our traffic. WiFi is the same way. Once that signal leaves the AP/router it traverses through the air which we have no control over until it reaches the client--we are in reactivate state, taking action based on what the client tells us or taking action based on a new anamoly detected in that air we don't control. Which is why I encourage people to design around WiFi as much as possible.

Between ethernet, fiber and media converters I don't see a use case where it's impossible to design around wireless in a home theater environment. We are all enthusiasts, if we weren't we wouldn't be here and I see the network as a big part of that.

Ask me though if I care about WiFi stability on my tablet when I'm studying up on NSX-T VRF-lite redistribution via MBGP and I will tell you no though so there is a limit I have to design mitigation :)
Technically you aren't wrong about any of this but at the practical level Teleconferencing and VOIP are equivalent for the home user, I just used teleconferencing as an example because of the prevalence of it during today's work at home extravaganza. Also let me say I agree that a CAT5e or CAT6 hardwired network is preferable but sometimes unrealistic when not installed at the time of construction. God I wish we could get fiber installed at the time of new home construction.

Practically the use case for needing more than 100 MB throughput in the home environment is watching UHD ISOs stored on a home NAS, with the reality that most TVs only have a 100MB NIC installed (God knows why) using an 802.11ac wireless connection that tops out at ~200MB will suffice, especially since the traffic is essentially one way mitigating the full/half duplex concerns. Jitter and Latency are essentially a non-issue for this use case and with the buffering capability built into most TVs the variance in speeds shouldn't be an issue either.


It's all about use cases and using 802.11ac is IMO an acceptable alternative for use in most, but not all, home environments. But don't get me started about apartment buildings and the amount of interference you can see from competing home router, all of which do a terrible job of de-conflictation.


I mostly work designing and installing systems in the customer environments, all of which want secure, high speed wireless systems that will support 400 simultaneous users for pennies. Oh and don't even think about pulling new cables to support multiple access points because that is too expensive, "Why not just use a couple of NetGear Nighthawks to support everybody?"



I've been getting lots a calls from home workers looking to beef up their home networks when they realize that the home office in the corner of the basement doesn't get a decent connection.
 

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Well I decided to exchange my 65" with pretty bad DSE and black jail bars across the screen for a new one at Best Buy. Took it out of the box, put on on the stand and turned it on. Looked great. Ran a few test, no black bars, minimal DSE. Great! So I slap my brackets on and wall mount it. Now I can immediately see the black jail bars just like my old set. I had similar viewing angles when it was on the ground, so I'm not sure if I just didn't notice it when it was on the ground. But its not great when on the wall. Maybe the jail bars are slightly less noticeable than before, but they shouldn't be there at all on a $1300 set.

So now I don't know what to do. I really don't mind a bit of DSE, but those black jail bars are so annoying I see them everywhere. Do I try one more time, or just go down to the 55" which has no jail bars...
So you are setting out to find these bars? Why? I don't get it? Why are you watching a pure white screen to try to find something wrong with the set? Maybe I'm missing something?
 

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Too harshly? Sony X900F 65" has 48 dimming zones. Sony X900H 75" has 32 dimming zones, with softer upscaling and considerably under-performing X1 Processor compared to Ultimate Processor. And forum posters are reporting Motion bugs.

X900H partially gets the "good value" nod because of industry 4K backsliding the past four years.
My X900E in 75 inch has more dimming zones, but performs worse than my 85 inch X900H. Have you seen the TV in person?

The numbers don't tell the whole picture from what I am seeing.
Same here. I also have a 75 900e and an 85 900f. Besides a motion software bug, the 900h is better with motion, upscaling, and imo is the brightest. Dolby Vision is spectacular. Very minor vignetting and DSE. This set was such a great value that I can't wait for the PS5 to drop! Any firmware update is icing on the cake as long as they get to the bug. Please report the bug to Sony please!
 

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I wouldn't touch Samsung if it's intended for long periods of gaming. 120Hz PWM is known to cause major headache. I ignored the warnings and now my 1 year old Samsung TV is rendered as a purely video streamer.
Isn't this sony also pwm?

in fact, what 4k hdtv are not pwm?
 

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Fluctuation is the nature of all 802.11 transmissions--given the medium, there is no way around it even with the best of compensating controls. In the case of 802.11, it's not your perceived speed but latency and jitter which wireless is inherent to wireless as opposed to ethernet...unless you're running an extended iPerf test it may not be visibly apparent. I don't doubt you're getting 200+--half-duplex which is another limit of the technology as well. In the half-duplex space, MoCA would even be a better choice than WiFi--not susceptible to the weaknesses of WiFi and greater sustained throughput.

For anyone who has the ability to choose between ethernet or WiFi, ethernet--even at 100/100--will still be a better choice.
MoCA when ethernet isn't possible. ;)
 

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Hi all, been a while since I posted (probably since I got my last set ~5 years ago). Wanted to put in my experience with my 85" X900H, got it from Best Buy.

Good points:
- Value for price. Never thought I could get a 2020 model 85" set so soon for under $3000, and with the features I was looking for. I am aware the 86" LG Nano90 is the same price, but I'm not a fan of IPS panels even on my PC monitors. Also needed something now so couldn't wait for the 85" Vizio. Anyway, the sheer size of it is a huge boost to immersion coming from my old 60" Samsung HU8550.
- Smoothness of the UI and availability of apps. Super responsive and has everything I normally use built in.
- SDR performance. The TV gets extremely bright in SDR (again, I only have my old Samsung to compare to) and the colors pop without seeming overly saturated or fake. This is right out of the box with minimal adjustments to brightness and local dimming only while disabling the contrast/black/color "enhancers."
- Local dimming. I was always afraid of FALD sets causing blooming around subtitles, but there is none of that on this set. I do see an occasional spot of blooming around isolated bright areas on a dark background, but even that is minimal. Black is very black.
- Outstanding black and gray uniformity. Can't find any clouding or backlight bleed under normal circumstances, and since local dimming works so well, I'm not going to turn that off just to dive down a rabbit hole. Color temp and uniformity of static gray and 100% white screens is very consistent.
- Input lag and response times. I see this set is ~15ms give or take, but compared the 40-50ms I was used to, this is light years ahead. No smearing or ghosting during motion that I can see.
- Viewing angles. I get that these are still limited, but compared to my Samsung, they're significantly better. I have been sitting ~20 degrees off-center and only notice a slight shift in color and brightness at the opposite edge of the screen.

So-so points:
- Not completely free of DSE. The DSE appears to be less visible the higher I set the brightness. I'm not a hockey or soccer fan, but I have watched a few Youtube hockey highlights, and there's definitely a bit of DSE there. It is much less noticeable during golf, baseball, and F1. Overall, in most scenarios, I have to force myself to look for it to see it.
- HDR seems dim. The only way I can get it to approximate SDR levels of brightness is to keep the brightness setting on max and boost all those contrast and color enhancing options, which makes things look blown-out and fake. I don't understand why it gets so dim when SDR gets so bright. It's not unusable like the HDR on my old Samsung, but I'm not sure it really adds anything more to the picture quality at this point. Maybe I just haven't tested the right content, I don't know. Also, DSE is more visible in HDR.
- Reflection handling is average. I have two large windows with closed blinds behind the screen, and in the height of the day, the reflections are there if I look for them. Again, not bad, but not perfect either.
- Gradation. Sometimes I see perfectly smooth gradients, other times it's very segmented. I have not seen it in games or streaming app content, but on certain static images, it's very evident. I suppose a lot of it depends on the source material.
- Vignetting. Definitely there but very minimal. Since all four corners are identical, it basically disappears to my eyes, so a non-issue for me.
- HDMI 2.1. This had better come, because it was one of the main reasons I went with this TV.

Negative points:
- Thin, almost transparent, perfectly straight vertical line slightly off the left of the center point. Sometimes it's really visible, like during a DSE test, and sometimes I can't see it at all if there's a vivid/bright color or lots of motion on the screen. For example, on the PS4 home screen, which I have set to dark blue, I can't see it at all, but if I turn on a hockey highlight, it's right there. When my eyes pick it up it's super annoying, but again, it's only visible on test patterns, hockey, and occasionally in certain games or golf that have a lot of gray or light blue skies. The fact that it's so inconsistently there makes me wonder if it's a setting that's causing it.

Anyway, I really don't feel like playing the panel lottery with a 110lb box that took my dad and me a lot of work to get upstairs, so I will likely be keeping it. I feel like, as with all sets, there will be drawbacks. This vertical line thing is the biggest drawback on my particular panel, but the fact that I have to force myself to look for it, if it shows up at all, isn't worth risking worse DSE or getting a panel with black jailbars.

EDIT: for those having these issues, wanted to report I have seen no random rebooting or loss of my settings. I am not using a receiver.
I also have the thin line and many others here. I'm thinking it is on all 85" sets.

When you look at the price points, moving from the 75 to 85 only costs $600. But moving from the 65 to 75 is upwards of $900.

So I think Sony knew about the thin line on the 85, but decided to lower the price jump to compensate.
 

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I don't upgrade very often (my current TV is now 12 yrs old, the still great 52" Samsung A650, if that tells you anything).
Nice. I have basically the same TV, a 12 year old 52" Samsung A580 that works as well as the day I got it.

I'd suggest doing the same thing I am: Wait. We have nice TVs, why upgrade until we can get something we will truly be happier with. I've personally been waiting for a full HDMI 2.1 TV with fantastic HDR color and brightness in a 80+" size for under $3000. The 900H is *so* close, but the lack of brightness is a deal killer. LG LCDs have always had issues with black levels, low brightness and local dimming, doubt the Nano90 fixes all that. Samsung charges way too much and has moved it's high end features to the pointless 8K sets. My only hope right now is the Vizio Quantum X. If it performs like last years model but with HDMI 2.1 added, I'll probably buy one.

Also. HDMI 2.1 video cards and consoles come out this year so these TVs can finally be tested fully.

So I wait and enjoy my 12 year old TV.
 

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MoCA when ethernet isn't possible. ;)
Again, the point is the average user cannot or does not want Ethernet cable running all over the place. Most of us live in homes where it was not installed widely throughout the house, nor is it practical or cost-feasible to have the done post-construction. So we just want the fastest, best wire free solution.

We can’t even get uncompressed cable/sat so the need for Ethernet isn’t a must by any means for TV watching.

I think my AVR has a headphone port for purer sound. Think I’ve ever used it? Tethering is not the future even if it’s “better.”
 

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Technically you aren't wrong about any of this but at the practical level Teleconferencing and VOIP are equivalent for the home user, I just used teleconferencing as an example because of the prevalence of it during today's work at home extravaganza. Also let me say I agree that a CAT5e or CAT6 hardwired network is preferable but sometimes unrealistic when not installed at the time of construction. God I wish we could get fiber installed at the time of new home construction.

Practically the use case for needing more than 100 MB throughput in the home environment is watching UHD ISOs stored on a home NAS, with the reality that most TVs only have a 100MB NIC installed (God knows why) using an 802.11ac wireless connection that tops out at ~200MB will suffice, especially since the traffic is essentially one way mitigating the full/half duplex concerns. Jitter and Latency are essentially a non-issue for this use case and with the buffering capability built into most TVs the variance in speeds shouldn't be an issue either.


It's all about use cases and using 802.11ac is IMO an acceptable alternative for use in most, but not all, home environments. But don't get me started about apartment buildings and the amount of interference you can see from competing home router, all of which do a terrible job of de-conflictation.


I mostly work designing and installing systems in the customer environments, all of which want secure, high speed wireless systems that will support 400 simultaneous users for pennies. Oh and don't even think about pulling new cables to support multiple access points because that is too expensive, "Why not just use a couple of NetGear Nighthawks to support everybody?"



I've been getting lots a calls from home workers looking to beef up their home networks when they realize that the home office in the corner of the basement doesn't get a decent connection.
I don't disagree with anything you've said. I think you hit the nail on the head though with it's all about the use case. I'm probably making my suggestions on the most extreme of use cases which, for many, just might not be necessary. You also reminded me that I need to look into a NAS system as I test out the new TV. I've never had a use for one before, but putting all of my video files on a NAS and watching them on the x900h (Costco version) is compelling. Any suggestion would be appreciated :)

I feel for your pain. We both work with customers on the opposite ends of the spectrum but the commonality is what you said about wanting an infrastructure set-up for pennies. Many of them seem to want "Money for nothing and the checks for free" when it comes to their network :)
 

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Well I decided to exchange my 65" with pretty bad DSE and black jail bars across the screen for a new one at Best Buy. Took it out of the box, put on on the stand and turned it on. Looked great. Ran a few test, no black bars, minimal DSE. Great! So I slap my brackets on and wall mount it. Now I can immediately see the black jail bars just like my old set. I had similar viewing angles when it was on the ground, so I'm not sure if I just didn't notice it when it was on the ground. But its not great when on the wall. Maybe the jail bars are slightly less noticeable than before, but they shouldn't be there at all on a $1300 set.

So now I don't know what to do. I really don't mind a bit of DSE, but those black jail bars are so annoying I see them everywhere. Do I try one more time, or just go down to the 55" which has no jail bars...
Curious if for some reason the stress on the panel from hanging it may be warping the panel slightly and creating them if you didn't see them at first and now that it's on the wall they are there?
 

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Again, the point is the average user cannot or does not want Ethernet cable running all over the place. Most of us live in homes where it was not installed widely throughout the house, nor is it practical or cost-feasible to have the done post-construction. So we just want the fastest, best wire free solution.

We can’t even get uncompressed cable/sat so the need for Ethernet isn’t a must by any means for TV watching.

I think my AVR has a headphone port for purer sound. Think I’ve ever used it? Tethering is not the future even if it’s “better.”
I think your statement changes the dynamic a little bit and it is justified. If someone wants to go wire-free then I think it's their prerogative and I support them 100%--completely up to them. I just wouldn't want someone not knowing all the options before making that choice. But at the end of the day if it's not feasible or it's not wanted I completely understand.

I think what trumps everything (for me) is the WAF. Doesn't matter how good the technology is if it doesn't meet the WAF then it's a no go. I may be the President, but she is the house and senate :)
 

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No excuses, please. These are pitiful examples of cost cutting and most engineer attention utilized elsewhere.

Sorry, this model's debut is fail.

What’s your deal? This is an owner’s thread. I’ve been on AVS for a while now and I don’t remember people bashing product on an owner’s thread like you’re doing. If you don’t like this set which you obviously have no experience with, don’t buy it. It’s really pretty simple. Please provide proof of where people were saying the X1 chip used in this set would be better than the ultimate chip that’s used in Sony’s higher end sets. The prevailing opinion before the set was released was quite the opposite. Many on AVS including professional reviewers were dumping on this set before release bc of Sony supposedly using a regular X1 chip several years old which turned out to be false.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

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Again, the point is the average user cannot or does not want Ethernet cable running all over the place. Most of us live in homes where it was not installed widely throughout the house, nor is it practical or cost-feasible to have the done post-construction. So we just want the fastest, best wire free solution.

We can’t even get uncompressed cable/sat so the need for Ethernet isn’t a must by any means for TV watching.

I think my AVR has a headphone port for purer sound. Think I’ve ever used it? Tethering is not the future even if it’s “better.”
MoCA = Multimedia over Coax. Ethernet over coax. Most people already have the coax in the room. Plug and play. ;)
 

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I also have the thin line and many others here. I'm thinking it is on all 85" sets.

When you look at the price points, moving from the 75 to 85 only costs $600. But moving from the 65 to 75 is upwards of $900.

So I think Sony knew about the thin line on the 85, but decided to lower the price jump to compensate.
Interesting point of view regarding the price. Regardless, if it seems to be a common thing that's even less of a reason to try and swap panels.
 

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MoCA = Multimedia over Coax. Ethernet over coax. Most people already have the coax in the room. Plug and play. ;)
This. I used this at my other place where nothing was wired and they worked quite well. Half-duplex but I was getting iPerf results consistently over 900. I would say real-world file transfer performance was about 800 but several factors were in play there.

The one issue is you need to have connectivity between all parts of the coax for it to work. For example one of my cable jacks was leaking RF signal. I wasn't using it for cable, just one of my MoCA pairs. When the line technician found the RF signal leak, he trapped off that jack which killed my MoCA link to the living room. I had to contact Cox, tell them the situation and have him un-trap the jack and fix the leakage to restore the connection. Just an FYI.
 

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Ok, I am seriously considering lugging this TV back to Costco tomorrow. If the MotionFlow bug wasn't driving me crazy enough, this just happened today. I have the 65 inch X900H connected to my soundbar, the Sony HT-CT800. Everything was working perfectly for the past couple weeks that I have had this TV, but today the ARC function just decided to stop working. No sound is coming from the soundbar, even when I toggle to output via Audio system in the settings. The soundbar itself is still working, as my PS4 Pro which is connected directly to the soundbar outputs audio. Bravia sync is turned on, as is HDMI control on the soundbar itself. I tried swapping to a different HDMI cable, but still nothing. The strange thing is that the TV still recognizes the soundbar, as turning on the TV will also turn on the soundbar, but not vice versa. I also did a factory reset on the TV and on the soundbar settings, but still nothing. I've read that others have had ARC issues on this TV. Any suggestions?
 
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