[Raymond G]

I spoke w/ Sherwood customer service today and they confirmed that they will not send me a setup mic because I bought my new P-965 over the internet from an unauthorized dealer. I understand their policy and have no beef with it. Unfortunately it means that without the mic I can't use the auto setup function, which was one of one of the reasons why I purchased the unit (another was the promised auto eq, which I also can't use).


I happen to own an audio buddy mic preamp, which I should be able to connect to the unit with a 1/4" to RCA adaptor cable. All of the mics I own however are unidirectional vocal mics, which I assume are not an acceptable replacement for the Sherwood mic.


There appear to be only a couple of options for mics that I can use. One would be the Behrenger ECM8000 ($50), which is an omnidirectional "measurement" mic. It's well known in home recording circles as a great mic to use w/ acoustic guitars, tambourines, vocals, etc., so it would be useful to have in case I ever find the time to start up that hobby again. It seems like the best choice out there to use instead of the Sherwood mic. Anyone disagree? The other option would be to buy the Denon setup mic ($70), which looks like it might be a distant cousin of the Sherwood mic. It not only costs more, but doesn't appear to have much usefulness other than as a setup mic, which is another reason why I'm leaning towards the ECM8000.


I'm open to other suggestions if anyone has one that might work. Of course, once I get my hands on a mic to use I'll have to ask one of you to send me a copy of the instructions that come with the Sherwood mics, to make sure I hook it up correctly and don't mess up the unit (which, of course, wouldn't be covered under warranty).


As always, I look forward to your help and advice.


Ray

 

[bubbawilly]

Who at Sherwood did you talk to? Jeff indicated in another thread that all you needed to do to get a mic was fax a copy of your receipt (knowing it was from an 'unauthorized' dealer). Do you not have a receipt at all?


Please let us all know who this unauthorized dealer is. It would be a shame if others were to buy from them and be left without warranty support. Let Sherwood know as well, so they can put a stop to it.


This whole unauthorized dealer thing pisses me off to no end. Either the product carries a warranty or not, and warranties are in place to protect consumers, not dealer networks. The warranty was fully funded when the wholesaler/distributor/retailer paid the wholesale price for the product. No manufacturer has a wholesale list price "without warranty," and another, higher list price "with warranty."

 

[Raymond G]

I really don't want this thread to get into this issue too much, as I want to deal with a pracitcal solution to my problem. In that other thread you cited I had mentioned that I sent e-mails asking about the mic (attaching a copy of my receipt) to Eugene at customer service and then about a week later to Jeff. I didn't get a response after a couple of weeks so I called yesterday and asked for customer service. I didn't get the name of who I spoke with but he asked me where I purchased the unit and told him I bought it from an e-tailer. He said that Sherwood does not authorize any Newcastle gear to be sold over the internet and that they do not provide support for units that are purchased from the web, so no mic.


As I said before, if that's their policy I'll live with it, but I am trying to see if anyone has any thoughts or suggestion about other mics I could use since I can't get one from Sherwood.

 

[Legairre]

Can't you just purchase the mic from Sherwood? Just call them back and tell them you'd like to buy one.

 

[Stereojeff]

RaymonG:


I don't know who you talked to, but they did not correctly represent our policy.


Please fax your purchase receipt to: (562) 741-0967~8 and we will forward the microphone.


Jeff

 

[Raymond G]

Jeff,


I just sent the fax. Please let me know if you need any additional information. Thank you for your help.


Ray

 

[miketo]

Quote:

Originally posted by bubbawilly This whole unauthorized dealer thing pisses me off to no end. Either the product carries a warranty or not, and warranties are in place to protect consumers, not dealer networks. The warranty was fully funded when the wholesaler/distributor/retailer paid the wholesale price for the product.

You're right, Bubba. Also, I understand the reasoning and business side of authorized dealerships. Authorized dealers are used to encourage local stores to sign up with an equipment manufacturer. By doing so, they agree to price the product within certain ranges, thereby keeping profit levels at predictable amounts. Even the giants use this tactic; Sony Playstation 2's are uniformly priced (with very rare exceptions) no matter who is selling them.


Authorized dealerships also protect consumers from getting nailed with B-stock turkeys that for one reason or another make it into unauthorized channels. It's common to see discontinued or about-to-be-replaced models at unauthorized dealers because they help move stock that would otherwise be returned and scrapped. So some profit is still made in the grey market but not consistently.


With unauthorized dealers there is also relatively little remedy if you buy a B-stock turkey. Usually it's a repair or replace-with-the-same-model policy, which is a problem if that model is known to have issues. If a consumer could buy from an unauthorized dealer but take it to an authorized one for repairs, the authorized dealer is the one who loses money right off the top. It's not fair to have the unauthorized dealer profit at the expense of an authorized one.


That being said, the consumer is the one who gets injured most often in these transactions. Expecting the average schmoe to do extensive research as to who is authorized, who is not, and what product is actually being bought is a burden as normally there is no obvious way of telling what's what. The manufacturer's answer, "Buy only from an authorized source" again places the burden on the consumer to do the research and places more barriers in the way of customer satisfaction.


I can tell you from experience that I've bought turkeys from both authorized and unauthorized dealers. The experiences (both bad ones) were the same regardless of the dealer status -- foot dragging, finger pointing, and a feeling like everything was my fault. The effect on me was (a) never buy from that dealer again, and (b) never buy from that *manufacturer* again.


Lesson to manufacturers: The more barriers you put in the way of customer satisfaction, the less likely you will receive repeat business. The authorized / unauthorized dealership distinction (in my experience) puts barriers in place, not lowers them or guarantees a higher degree of satisfaction.


And a personal note: I have had nothing but top-drawer service from Sherwood Newcastle. While I purchased my R-965 directly from SN, Jeff & Co. have been outstanding with their responses to questions and comments that I've had.

 

[Stereojeff]

To clarify our position. We value our relationships with authorized dealers and believe these authorized dealers are in the best position to offer worthwhile services to our customers. They, alone, will be fully informed of current promotions, firmware availability, product introductions and, perhaps more importantly, discontinued product. And only authorized dealers will receive the factory support that allows them to offer in-home trials, etc.


However, as Newcastle is directed most often to the custom installation market, we cannot provide a detailed and 100% accurate list of all of our authorized dealers. Hence, it would be folly for us to require that all Newcastle be purchased from an authorized dealer before it qualifies for factory support.


What we do require, for warranty and other support, is a proof of purchase from a valid company. EBay auction receipts and the like do not qualify.


Also our warranty covers the original purchaser, only. Extension of warranty support to subsequent owners is at our option. So beware of on-line auctions, etc. that offer merchandise that was "purchased for my own use and not installed". Purchase of such an item would clearly make you the second owner and would jeopardize our support.


Jeff

 

[Randybes]

Jeff,


I for one think that is a great policy. I bought my P-965 from a custom installer. Your policy makes perfect sense as custom installers buy through authorized distributors, but typically don't sell the volume of any one system that an authorized brick and mortor retailer does. There are many custom installers out there that do an excellent job of doing actual installations and set-up work instead of "dropping a box".

 

[bubbawilly]

Sherwood is clearly a stand-up company, with exceptional customer support. Their position offers a reasonable level of protection for both dealers and consumers.

 

[dgeorgatos]

I will vouch for Jeff and Sherwood's policy because I just got my Mic and bought from an unauthorized dealer (sorry Jeff). I have had many dealings with this dealer before and trust him. Sherwood and Jeff will take care of you.


Dennis

 

[Raymond G]

Well I am such a fool! I come home this evening after a very long day and what is sitting at my doorstep but a box from my friends at Sherwood with a brand new setup mic and preamp! As it turned out they processed my original order after all.


Jeff, obviously I don't need another one now.


I apologize for bringing up this issue and will absolutely vouch for the fantastic support and service of the Sherwood gang. It's a great product and a fine company that really cares about their customers. Thanks again and in the immortal words of Emily Latella ".... Never Mind".


Ray (too embarrassed to post again for awhile)

 

[bubbawilly]

Does anyone out there have a newer model P-965 with the mic preamp built in?


Legairre??

 

[Legairre]

Quote:

Originally posted by bubbawilly Does anyone out there have a newer model P-965 with the mic preamp built in? Legairre??

Mine came with the mic and pre-amp but the pre-amp wasn't built into the 965.


Anyone know what a purple sticker on the 965 means?

 

[vinodk]

Hi Guys!

Does the room correction in P-965 equalize the sub? May be Jeff can elaborate on all the functions of P-965 EQ.

Thanks.

 

[Stereojeff]

Legairre:


A sticker on the box simply means that an update was applied to the unit here in Cerritos. Unfortnately, we weren't smart enough to use a different color for each update.


Vinodk:


Per info received from Warren Rhee at Cirrus, it does EQ the sub. However, he exact contents and timing of the Cirrus Room EQ is still a mystery.


Jeff

 

[Legairre]

Thanks jeff, since mine shipped from directly Cerritos and had the 1.0 firmware, it sounds like it means they upgraded the unit from the original firmware to 1.0 . Thanks for the info I was just curious.

 

[bubbawilly]

Following is a link to a Cirrus press release regarding what they are calling "IRC," or Intelligent Room Calibration.

http://www.cirrus.com/en/press/releases/P426.html


I assume that the 965 currently has what Cirrus refers to as "Level 1," or auto speaker setup, and the EQ, or "Level 2" is what is forthcoming. I believe that IRC was developed on the latest 49500 processor, so the delay that Sherwood is experiencing may be due a delay at Cirrus getting the code ported over to the 494003 processor.


Unless Sherwood or Marantz specified certain proprietary EQ parameters, I would expect the Sherwood EQ to be virtually identical to the 49500 based Marantz MRAC, which is a re-badged version Cirrus Logic's IRC.


Anyone know much about MRAC?

 

[Stereojeff]

Bubbawilly:


You are correct. We are currently implementing IRC Level I and intend to implement IRC Level 2 when it works in all modes. Per my most recent contact with Cirrus, that code should have been completed by the end of January (2005).


Now as to your leap that IRC 2 and MRAC are related--there may be a relationship between them, but as far as I know your hypothesis is simply speculation.


Jeff