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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
First of all, thanks in advance for all the knowledge I have got from this forum's users from other posts.

It will be a BEDROOM
  • 10,9 x 10,1 feet room
  • it's a bedroom
  • main use is gaming
  • 3D is very important for me
  • targeting a widescreen of 115"
  • view distance would be 10 feet
  • no side view, only 2 people at screen center
  • this house is under construction, so wall painting will be cheap and convenient
  • low ambient light
  • room can be painted with dark matte color but not black
  • every litlle sugestion is accepted from room color and furtiture to projector model
  • keep in mind my wife need to aprove it too (lol)
  • I promisse to keep track of the room building and final results to help other in the futre
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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You might want to consider the Optoma GT1080

It is a short throw PJ, so from just 6' away mounted on the Ceiling you can get that 115"er, and when Gaming you can crowd the screen as close as 4' away without cutting into the beam of projected light.

The BenQ would have to be mounted all the way in the back of the room, and if that is your bed, it will be directly over your head.

That PJ has a 5 year warranty, substantially longer Lamp Life, it's 2800 lumen / DLP / with 25,000:1 Contrast. It's 3D performance is judged to be excellent. Also, it's Fan noise is very quiet.

For only $100.00 more that's a lot of extra value.

As far as paint, if you can use the Wall, then a very light Flat Grey can help offset the small increase in the PJ budget.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You might want to consider the Optoma GT108
As far as paint, if you can use the Wall, then a very light Flat Grey can help offset the small increase in the PJ budget.
I thought it would be not possible to short throw the GT1080 from ceiling without blocking my sight from screen! I will surely use the optoma instead.

No need to use more gain from the paint because of the 3D? From what I read simple wall paintings give about 0.85 gain, is it enough?

THX A LOT
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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I thought it would be not possible to short throw the GT1080 from ceiling without blocking my sight from screen! I will surely use the optoma instead.

No need to use more gain from the paint because of the 3D? From what I read simple wall paintings give about 0.85 gain, is it enough?

THX A LOT
Actually it is the W1070 that would have to be mounted so low it would have to be almost level with your screen's top edge.

At a 4.4" Throw, the Optoma has 9" of Image Offset, so when mounted inverted on a 8' ceiling, with the lens center at 6" down from the ceiling, the top of the Image would be at 15" down from the ceiling.

Consider then that the 115" 16x9 screen is 59" Tall. Adding in the 15" , that would leave the bottom of the screen at 23" off the floor.

There are ways to decrease the Center Lens Height to 3" down from the ceiling, and that would then give you 26" off the Floor. You want to keep the PJ level if at all possible.

So if your Ceiling is at or over 8' you should have no issues whatsoever. Worst case....you want to have the Screen's top edge closer to the Ceiling, then by applying a bare minimum amount of upward Tilt to the PJ at the lower height and then a minimum of Keystone Correction, that too becomes a easy solution at hand.

As far as needing gain, if you want to hedge that bet and put up a solution that is still Roll-able, then RS-MaxxMudd LL is an ideal choice. It would provide a Gain figure of approx 1.3, resulting in 46 ft lambert while viewing 3D, and for normal Video / Film and with the PJ set to Economy Theater, 24 fl
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
As far as needing gain, if you want to hedge that bet and put up a solution that is still Roll-able, then RS-MaxxMudd LL is an ideal choice. It would provide a Gain figure of approx 1.3, resulting in 46 ft lambert while viewing 3D, and for normal Video / Film and with the PJ set to Economy Theater, 24 fl
This wall will be sprayed not rolled
One wall from the living room will be sprayed too, with some projection paint for the future.

So, any paint is welcome.
 

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The Optoma warranty is definitely nice, but it needs brilliantcolor cranked high to make the best of its brightness and contrast..turn brilliantcolor down (for a more accurate and less noisy/grainy image) and the brightness as well as contrast get cut down to 1/3..lumens fall to 650 in full-lamp or 500lumens in eco.
The Benq w1070 is also available as the w1080st(short-throw) that throws an accurate image at twice the brightness.

The Optoma does have the additional option of using an external emitter for 3D (which will help to make up some of the lost full-color contrast and brightness), but the emitter is a separate ~$99 purchase which will also require specific (though still often inexpensive) glasses.
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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You don't seem to grasp one of the most important things.

The room is only 10' -9" deep at the most. So the W1070 would have to be almost "butt against the back wall" if that particular depth was factored in. Let it be necessary to use the 10' -1" depth and it becomes a total impossibility to consider. Simply put, it is a non-starter and does not even merit discussing in this instance.

Moving on to address your seeming love affair with all things BenQ :D

The BenQ W1080ST also has far less a desirable ceiling placement capability. It would almost be directly in front of the viewer's line of sight and at the same level as the top of the screen unless a significant amount of Keystone adjustment was used to correct the larger amount of tilt required to place it significantly higher.

The W1080ST is significantly more expensive....a real questionable difference so considering it's limitations.

Also, it's just not something that is based upon reality your stating that the BenQ is 2x has bright.

In "Standard Mode" (Normal Lamp) the BenQ is 1232 lumen and 870 in Eco Lamp Mode
In "Bright Mode" (Normal lamp) the Optoma is 2563 Lumen and 2022 in Eco Lamp Mode

The Optoma's Bright Mode is simply named that...it is not the same as other's "Dynamic" modes.

The Optoma maintains it's +2x higher Contrast rating across the board, and does not depend upon Brilliant Color to deliver the above stated specifications. Instead, when BC is employed, it does what it was always intended to do, enrich-en Color saturation but does so without skewering color correctness or introducing unnatural brightness or too intense Color.

Yes, the Optoma does have a White panel in it;s Color Wheel, but it also employs a special Auto adjustment to equalize the use of such White brightness as needed for specific content. It is not a "always on full" type of feature.

In any case, the OP needs a Short Throw that can be placed according to his needs and the desire to not see it be a predominant feature directly in front of him.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
The Optoma warranty is definitely nice, but it needs brilliantcolor cranked high to make the best of its brightness and contrast..turn brilliantcolor down (for a more accurate and less noisy/grainy image) and the brightness as well as contrast get cut down to 1/3..lumens fall to 650 in full-lamp or 500lumens in eco.
The Benq w1070 is also available as the w1080st(short-throw) that throws an accurate image at twice the brightness.

The Optoma does have the additional option of using an external emitter for 3D (which will help to make up some of the lost full-color contrast and brightness), but the emitter is a separate ~$99 purchase which will also require specific (though still often inexpensive) glasses.
I liked the panasonic ar100u but it lacks 3D.. Sony hw40 too expensive. I would buy the epson 3000 if it had low lag input 😳 c'mon guys my maximum budget is US$1.500,00 for PJ. Any other good PJ. For gaming in this price range?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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The best projector around with 2000 lumen....1080p....lens shift....and the fastest gamer you can ever hope to have would be the good 'ol Epson 8350

You won't spend $1000.00, but as I said....it's a great choice.

But.... There is still your available throw distance to deal with if you want a 115" inch screen

Your gotta know this, sometimes the best projector for you to get doesn't have to be the most expensive
 

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The 8350 lacks 3D, sadly.
The combination of gaming and 3D and the $1500 budget will lock the choices down to a few brands of DLPs. Fitting a nearly 10ft-wide screen in a nearly 10'x10' room will narrow the choices down to short-throw DLPs.
There's a pretty short list, but none of the options are terrible.
-The Optoma gt1080 can throw a screen that size from about 4.5ft back and its lens-center will be 10inches above 16:9 content or 18inches above 2.39 content.
-The Benq w1080 can throw a screen that size from a little over 6-7ft back (your choice as it has optical zoom) and its lens-center will be 2inches above 16:9content or 9inches above 2.39content.
The Optoma should be $100-200 cheaper, run quieter, and can give brighter whites using its least accurate settings.
The Benq will run louder because of its brighter/hotter lamp, and its picture will be more accurate and able to show properly vibrant colors.

Some find the Benq fan-noise outside of eco-mode to be too loud. Some find the picture-quality and color-brightness of the Optoma too lacking.
Neither should be a disappointment, especially as a first projector. Both have the ability to be bright, accurate or quiet when needed.

I push the Benq because it is quiet in eco-mode and still capable of 900full-color lumens while the Optoma even in its decently quiet full-lamp is only able to show 650full-color lumens. However, turn on brilliantcolor and the Benq jumps to a quiet and still impressively accurate 1200lumens while the Optoma has the ability to trade accuracy for up to 2000+lumens.

I remember you MM saying a few days ago that brilliantcolor is something many run screaming from and I'm not sure if what I'm about to say will sound demeaning or educational (hopefully the latter)..
Brilliantcolor is the algorithm that controls how a DLP uses the non-rgb light in its path. Turning brilliantcolor off forces the projector to use only the rgb segments while those that turn low use very little of the non-rgb light.
There's a very simple test you can perform with just your eyes and some patterns..put up some fullscreen primaries and see how brilliantcolor affects them. Next try some secondaries (there's a cyan and yellow section added to that wheel and yet you'll find little to no change here either).
The point is, although the name and some mistaken wording may make it sound otherwise, brilliantcolor does NOT saturate colors..it simply uses the non-rgb light to increase white brightness and to a lesser degree the mid-tones as colors approach grey (a pale color that's part white and part primary/ies will get boosted in its white brightness).

Because turning brilliantcolor off (or very low) forces the projector to cycle the panel/pixels off during the non-rgb segments it doesn't change black-levels. Black level doesn't get any darker than all the mirrors turned off. This is something else you can easily test in person by throwing a pure black screen and changing the brilliantcolor setting, you'll quickly realize it doesn't change the black-level. Because lowering brilliantcolor does lower peak-white down from 2563 (the projector's brightest mode) to only 650lumens while black stays the same, it cuts contrast down to 1/4. Because the Optoma's color-brightness can never beat 650lumens (due to its small rgb segments) its color-contrast will always be stuck back at 1/4 as high no matter how it is set.

Also, for some reason all the dlps that use the 1-10 brilliantcolor system instead of the on/off version end up with increasing amounts of added pixel-y grain in the image as brilliantcolor gets turned higher. So their brightest settings look noisier than their more accurate ones.
 

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Great write-up. Never understood how BC works and why it gives such bad color rendition. Now it all makes sense. Thanks :smile:

But what about PJs that doesent have non RGB fields in the color wheel. W1070 as a RGBRGB wheel but also have the BC function?

Anyway, IMO get a PJ with RGBRGB wheel if image fidelity is your thing.
 

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The 8350 lacks 3D, sadly.
The combination of gaming and 3D and the $1500 budget will lock the choices down to a few brands of DLPs. Fitting a nearly 10ft-wide screen in a nearly 10'x10' room will narrow the choices down to short-throw DLPs.
There's a pretty short list, but none of the options are terrible.
-The Optoma gt1080 can throw a screen that size from about 4.5ft back and its lens-center will be 10inches above 16:9 content or 18inches above 2.39 content.
-The Benq w1080 can throw a screen that size from a little over 6-7ft back (your choice as it has optical zoom) and its lens-center will be 2inches above 16:9content or 9inches above 2.39content.
The Optoma should be $100-200 cheaper, run quieter, and can give brighter whites using its least accurate settings.
The Benq will run louder because of its brighter/hotter lamp, and its picture will be more accurate and able to show properly vibrant colors.

Some find the Benq fan-noise outside of eco-mode to be too loud. Some find the picture-quality and color-brightness of the Optoma too lacking.
Neither should be a disappointment, especially as a first projector. Both have the ability to be bright, accurate or quiet when needed.

I push the Benq because it is quiet in eco-mode and still capable of 900full-color lumens while the Optoma even in its decently quiet full-lamp is only able to show 650full-color lumens. However, turn on brilliantcolor and the Benq jumps to a quiet and still impressively accurate 1200lumens while the Optoma has the ability to trade accuracy for up to 2000+lumens.

I remember you MM saying a few days ago that brilliantcolor is something many run screaming from and I'm not sure if what I'm about to say will sound demeaning or educational (hopefully the latter)..
Brilliantcolor is the algorithm that controls how a DLP uses the non-rgb light in its path. Turning brilliantcolor off forces the projector to use only the rgb segments while those that turn low use very little of the non-rgb light.
There's a very simple test you can perform with just your eyes and some patterns..put up some fullscreen primaries and see how brilliantcolor affects them. Next try some secondaries (there's a cyan and yellow section added to that wheel and yet you'll find little to no change here either).
The point is, although the name and some mistaken wording may make it sound otherwise, brilliantcolor does NOT saturate colors..it simply uses the non-rgb light to increase white brightness and to a lesser degree the mid-tones as colors approach grey (a pale color that's part white and part primary/ies will get boosted in its white brightness).

Because turning brilliantcolor off (or very low) forces the projector to cycle the panel/pixels off during the non-rgb segments it doesn't change black-levels. Black level doesn't get any darker than all the mirrors turned off. This is something else you can easily test in person by throwing a pure black screen and changing the brilliantcolor setting, you'll quickly realize it doesn't change the black-level. Because lowering brilliantcolor does lower peak-white down from 2563 (the projector's brightest mode) to only 650lumens while black stays the same, it cuts contrast down to 1/4. Because the Optoma's color-brightness can never beat 650lumens (due to its small rgb segments) its color-contrast will always be stuck back at 1/4 as high no matter how it is set.

Also, for some reason all the dlps that use the 1-10 brilliantcolor system instead of the on/off version end up with increasing amounts of added pixel-y grain in the image as brilliantcolor gets turned higher. So their brightest settings look noisier than their more accurate ones.
Having been there and "dun'it". Epson 3020 projector fit the bill for excellent 3D. Plus the glasses were rechargable.
 

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Great write-up. Never understood how BC works and why it gives such bad color rendition. Now it all makes sense. Thanks :smile:

But what about PJs that doesent have non RGB fields in the color wheel. W1070 as a RGBRGB wheel but also have the BC function?

Anyway, IMO get a PJ with RGBRGB wheel if image fidelity is your thing.
RGB DLPs have a split-second of non-RGB light every time the light-path is hitting two colorwheel segments at the same time. The rgbrgb wheel doesn't actually have spokes or anything between color segments..the colors just butt right into eachother so there's a bit of time where the lightpath (because the beam is a little thick) hits two and is actually making yellow/cyan/magenta light. Usually the projector just shuts the panel off for that split-second transition, but turning brilliantcolor on lets it use it, and yellow/cyan/magenta go together to make white. This is also why the brilliantcolor only adds about 30% more brightness for an RGB DLP instead of the 300%-400% it adds for rgbcym/rgbcyw models.

The really goofy thing is why they use yellow/cyan/magenta at all. Testing it out with color patterns and gradients, they almost exclusively use the cym light together as white and not to brighten actual yellow/cyan/magenta (though I have seen some add a tiny bit to yellow). I say goofy because they could just use a white segment to do the same thing better..a c/y/m segment will pass twice as much white-light as rgb does, but a white segment will pass 3X as much white light! That would allow a smaller white segment to do the same job AND allow a larger rgb segment so color-brightness would be higher.
The thing is, people are tuned to know a white-segment =bad, but most won't realize a cym segment is used exactly the same..they'll instead think, "oh good, more colors".

Having been there and "dun'it". Epson 3020 projector fit the bill for excellent 3D. Plus the glasses were rechargable.
The 3020 won't have the gaming prowess of the 8350/8345 or any of the fast DLPs, but there are still folks using higher-lag projectors to game that don't mind it.
I'd put the w1070 ahead of the 3020 for fast/twitch gaming, and I'm not sure if the 3020 could make a 115" wide-screen in a room with less than 10ft lens-to-screen.
The fast-charge glasses I've heard are every bit as convenient as they sound..going to watch 3D?-charge glasses for 3minutes while the PJ warms up and you close some curtains..now they're charged enough for a movies-worth of use..in only a couple minutes!
Somebody brought their A-game when they made those.
 

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Thank you so much guys, for now, I'm with optoma gt1080

does anyone knows any projector to be released soon that fits me? I'M PATIENT :cool:
I haven't heard of any upcoming short-throw DLPs..they aren't really common.

By the way, which wall are you putting the image on, the long one or the 10ft one?
Also, by 115"screen do you mean 115"diagonal 16:9 or 2.39 or do you mean 115"-wide?
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Gotta be 115" diagonal. The other size is way beyond his original concept of the considered throw distance, and in any case, with a room having only at the most 10' 9" width (129") he would be squeezing in a screen that would leave only 12" on each side to the adjoining walls.

Also, his screen height would zoom up to 65", and diagonal out to 135"

Epic sized to be sure, but too big for the room.
 

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Think it's 115"diagonal 16:9 or 2.39?

Also, found one more short-throw (doesn't show up in the search, so had to dig through to find it) the Acer h6517st. Uses a business (not theatre) colorwheel like the Optoma and pairs it with a 210watt lamp (Optoma uses a dimmer 190watt while Benq uses a brighter 240watt)..not really sure how it compares, but it should look similar to the Optoma (might actually be the same parts mostly with Acer software and a different colored body).
 

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DIY Granddad (w/help)
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Well, the better model Acer below is the one to consider
H7550ST


It has a higher Contrast ratio - 16,000:1 vs 10,000:1
(the Optoma GT1080 states 25,000:1 )

It has Stereo Speakers, as does the GT1080. The H6517ST is Mono

It has Optical & Digital Zoom
(...Optical Zoom on a Short Throw is nice...)


The H7550ST is already a well proven performer, while the H6517ST is too new to have any reviews, just PR announcements. But basically it amounts to being a scaled back version of the one listed above...and so being is $200.00 less


But one glaring fault both share....they are both loud...in excess of 33 db in Normal Lamp mode, and if 3D is going to be employed, that's what either model will have to be in.
 

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The 7550 doesn't even show on PJC (or anywhere else major) and it's a new model..are you sure it's a proven performer already? Did you manage to see one or are you talking about professional reviews (just asking because I haven't seen any).
Either way, good catch.

Has anyone commented on it being loud or is that just based on the spec?
It's still going to be another ~200watt rgbcyw model and it'll look similar to the others.
If the zoom is important, I'd go with the Benq; if the non-rgb is fine and the lower offset is important, it sounds like the Optoma is a better fit (cheaper, quieter, but no zoom).
Does Acer use the same 10inch offset as Optoma?
 
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