AVS Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.
1 - 20 of 37 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·
It has been suggested that anyone who is unhappy with the

delay in delivery of the Panamorph lens can (1) ask for a refund (from whom, may I ask?), (2)sell their place in line to someone who'd like to take advantage of early delivery, or (3) wait for Cygnus to make delivery of a finished, warrantied product.


I have elected to follow course (2) by offering my position in line to an AVS Forum moderator who quite rightly would like to receive confirmation from Shawn Kelly of my position in the list of Power Buyers and that a purchase by him will result in a transfer by Shawn upon receipt of my email confirmation of the trade.


Consequently, I have contacted Shawn via email as has the prospective buyer seeking confirmation that I am at or about No. 20 on the list (as Shawn advised me via email on 25 June 2001) and advising him of our desire to effect a trade with Shawn's concurrence, since he's apparently the one handling the books on the power buy. This series of emails took place last week and on Monday of this week. To date, I have heard nothing back from Shawn, nor has the prospective buyer contacted me with any acknowledgement from Shawn. I know Shawn is extremely busy but is he the only person who works at Cygnus? Do they not have anyone else who can shoulder some of the burden of the enormously complex and onerous Panamorph purchase. Surely, Cygnus isn't a one-man show, is it?


The purpose of this post is to advise people who may be considering the sale of a Panamorph Power Buy waiting list position that such a sale is not easily accomplished despite a willing buyer and a willing seller. In fact, without Shawn's cooperation, it is impossible to make such a transfer and at this point it appears that Shawn is unwilling to get involved in such sales. This means the only recourse to waiting, waiting, waiting is to ask for a refund, which raises the question: Who will pay the refund amount?


Alan Gouger has indicated that his role in the sale was merely as a collector of funds (is that a fiduciary arrrangement?)for Cygnus and that Cygnus was the actual recipient of the funds of purchase. I have seen nothing in print ever from Shawn Kelly or any Cygnus representative that the Cygnus company was willing to pay a refund. I may have missed the actual post, but all I've seen are statements of refundability from third party posters.


If anyone has asked for and received a refund from Cygnus, I would please like to know from him how he went about it (i.e. whom at Cygnus to contact, how long did it take to receive good funds, etc.) If I were a gambling man I'd say the odds are no one has received a refund and that there is no mechanism in place at Cygnus to deal with the return of money to anyone.


If the Panamorph 751 was a hoax, as it is beginning to appear, the 752 is a cruel hoax and the 2:35 Power Buy is a con job. Caveat emptor.


jim

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
846 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Saxon:
(1) ask for a refund (from whom, may I ask)
Jim,


Contact both Alan and Shawn via e-mail about a refund. They should be able to help you.


Someone here also knows Shawn's direct phone number. While we have been banned from posting it, and I was too stupid not to copy it down while I had the chance, if they read this message, I ask they send the number of Jim (and me if you do not mind.)


--Les

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
Jim,


If you really think the panamorph 751 was a "hoax," you have been spending too much time watching Conspiracy Theory.


You are obviously frustrated waiting for the Panamorphs to ship...etc...but please think twice before you use such offensive terms as "hoax."


Shawn is a good guy with a company known for outstanding customer support. He is right up there with Don Stewart when it comes to resolving a customer issue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,295 Posts
Of course Don usually deals with customer support after he has actually shipped a product....


I know the pain of waiting for replies from Shawn. I had the same problem - finally called him directly and when I spoke with him on the phone he was very professional.


My impression is that Cygnus is a VERY small outfit and indeed he may be the only guy there. I think he just has no time to keep up, and the service shows it sometimes.




------------------

Lex MC1/Sunfire CG/Hales Rev3's x3/M&K SS150 tripoles/Quadscan/Plus UP1100/Homemade screen
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,447 Posts
I asked for a refund 2 weeks ago due to different installation problems with a Seleco where a Panamorph would not work. Still no correspondence or refund. I am assuming once the first batches are shipped, it will be much easier, but I am still out 1400 bucks in the mean time. Hopefully, I will see my refund soon http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
Pap...good point!


I guess customer service is a little challenging when you haven't actually shipped the product.


I was actually referring to an old depixelization filter I purchased from Shawn about 8 or 9 years ago...it didn't quite work with the Vidikron Crystal one...and shawn accepted the return, no questions asked. I have kept in contact with him over the years, and now am doing some business with him on the panamorph project.


He is one of the good guys. He may be slow returning some emails, but don't worry. He always stands behind his word and product...

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,981 Posts
Jim

AVS only took money from the first power buy and that was passed along to Cygnus. All the other buys were processed directly by Cygnus.


Were you in the first buy!

If so I would be glad to provide a refund.


I sent Shawn an email today and hope to hear from him tomorrow. It usually takes a day for him to get back to me.

I will bring this to his attention.


------------------

Alan Gouger

Thanks for supporting AV Science.
www.avscience.com


[This message has been edited by Alan Gouger (edited 07-12-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Saxon:
If the Panamorph 751 was a hoax, as it is beginning to appear, the 752 is a cruel hoax and the 2:35 Power Buy is a con job. Caveat emptor.
Do you hear that sound...listen carefully...that is the sound of your credibility dying from a hyperbole overdose.


I'm sure we are all really sorry that you did not get your e-mail returned, but to suggest that the Panamorph is a scam because of that is laughably absurd.

 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
1,066 Posts
Jim, I fully admit to guilty on this one. A number of arrangements were all set prior to integrating into our new facility where it has been a nightmare getting the information systems back on line while keeping the manufacturing operation a priority. Our new office manager is great with computers once they work, but the reality is that I'm juggling too much to get everything set up as fast as we'd like while also driving the manufacturing. I know the system will be online tomorrow and will address the emails and arrangements at that time.


------------------

Shawn Kelly

Cygnus Imaging
www.cgns.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,014 Posts
Jim,


I have a solution for you.

Did you buy at the $600 price. If so don't worry about

getting your refund or approval to sell your pre-order. I'll purchase your pre-order for $700 and purchase it now. And I'll pay you now. Here's all you have to do. Send an email to Cygnus telling them that I bought your pre-order and they are now to ship your Panamorph to me (I'll email you my shipping address to

include in that email). CC that email to me and to Alan Gouger. Once I receive the CC of that email I will mail you payment. Is it a deal? If so then email me and I'll reply with my shipping address.


Bob Wood <[email protected]>


------------------

~ The Sultan of Cheap ~




[This message has been edited by RobertWood (edited 07-12-2001).]
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
55 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Gouger:
Jim



Also once the lens start shipping the demand for a unit at the pre pay price will sore and anyone wanting to sell their lens should have no trouble providing they sell it for what they paid for it.

Alan,


Thank you for confirming that the Panamorph lens has not yet begun to ship. Some more optimistic thread-starters may consider this information a bit of a surprise.


I don't understand your proviso that seems to decree that power buyers may only sell either a lens or their position in line for a lens for what they paid for it. Several posters here have indicated in response to my agitation that I can ask for a refund or sell my position. Why is a "sale" an alternative, then, if it can only be conducted at the price paid? As I read your words, you think the only way out of this quagmire is to a refund.


I don't see how you can justify this position. Is there a mechanism in place by which you or anyone else fix the secondary market price of either an actual lens or a position to take delivery of a lens? The price is what a willing buyer and a willing seller agree it is. Why shouldn't I have the benefit of my bargain if someone is interested in paying me a premium over my subscription price?


Your stance appears to me to be an effor to block any attempt anyone may have to benefit from being an early member of the Panamorph Power Buy. For what reason? Why is it any skin off your nose if I sell my position for a profit rather than ask for a refund?


As a practical matter, Shawn Kelly can block all transfers by just ignoring the bookkeeping of such transactions, but what has that got to do with you or the free exchange or property rights between third parties?


jim
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
386 Posts
Quote:
Originally posted by Jim Saxon:
I don't understand your proviso that seems to decree that power buyers may only sell either a lens or their position in line for a lens for what they paid for it.
From the context of Alan's comments it was pretty clear that he was saying it would be easy to sell your unit at the pre-buy price once they were selling for full price. No one has EVER said or implied that you could only sell your unit for the prebuy price...Frankly such a restriction would be unenforcable.

 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,510 Posts
Jim, Sounds to me like Alan was saying "You should have no problem getting your $ out of it" It does'nt sound like he was saying you couldn't attempt to make a profit, just that getting out would be pretty simple. Reread Robert Wood's post, sell and be done with it and you even made a hundred bucks!!!!!!!!!


Scott

P.S. I am starting to have no sympathy for Paamorph gripers. It seems to me Shawn is doing his best and if that is not good enough for certain prebuyers than post your place in classifieds and you will have your $ soon and we can talk about the GOOD things in Home Theater! After all we should be happy we can afford the Panamorph. SO THERE!!
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
16,981 Posts
Jim


That was not what I ment. If you want to make a profit go ahead.

I was only trying to help by giving some reasurence.

You were complaining and obviously wanted to be heard. Thats why you started the thread. You said who do you report to if you want a refund. I answered.



I just received my reply from Shawn and I want to post it. I am doing so without permission but I do not think Shawn will mind. After reading it he is hard at work getting things ready to ship.


Hi Alan,


The problem is simply time to catch up. I figure the highest priority is in

shipping the units, so I admit that other things are suffering. The new

facility and additional staff were an absolute necessity to pull this off.

Unfortunately I have to be involved in just about every step until everybody

becomes comfortable in their job. Most are working until after midnight

every night to make things happen. I'm hoping that shipping units next week

followed by an open house will go a long way to justifying all the pain.




------------------

Alan Gouger

Thanks for supporting AV Science.
www.avscience.com
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,667 Posts
Just saw this thread. Since I paid AVS, I must be in the first buy.


Also, the post to the progress page was great. Even so, I bet Shawn misses his July 16 milestone. However with luck, this time next week, I'll have my Panamorph. But I'm not placing any bets.


------------------

Ken Elliott
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
668 Posts
These "hoax" accusations might make some people wonder, but when I have had a Panamorph in my HT for three weeks they REALLY sound absurd.


Maybe I'm part of the conspiracy. Hmmm....and I never knew it.


Jeff
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
459 Posts
are those helicopters I hear...I think they are following me...they know I have a panamorph on order....help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,667 Posts
Only three days to Panamorph D-day.


------------------

Ken Elliott
 
1 - 20 of 37 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top