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Mr. Knittel,


Good compromise and language.


The only thing I don't see in the form is the timeline for shipment.


When will you ship the first panamorph to prebuyers who participate in the program?


--Les
 

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Strange language...

Quote:
shall consider the replacement of any unit delivered as damaged, or a refund of this option, as a priority over shipments to other customers
Great on the damaged ones given priority over new shipments, but what refund??? This is COD or charge to card At Time of Shipment .
 

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Shawn et al.


The invoice should show the original price we paid for the Panamorph! If the $360 is added on (to be returned later) then we will pay tax on the increased cost and for me this will be substantial. When the $360 is returned I won't get a rebate for the tax I paid! Also since I am using the lens with a projector which is fed by a computer the shipping box and invoice should read "lens for computer projector" and therefore no duty! No duty paid on anything associated with a computer!


I am happy to see that you are moving quickly forward with this compromise.


Thanks,


Grant
 

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Can somebody please translate this for me?


First of all, the form alone, obviously, doesn't explain at all what we're getting here. Jeff Lemke, and others, I think, have said how this might work, but has there been any official text from a Cygnus representative, describing what the "Accellerated Delivery Option" consists of? All it says is that "Panamorph units shall be shipped to the customer identified hereunder who has already purchased a Panamorph unit but is awaiting shipment". We each already have such an arrangement - they already agreed to ship a Panamorph when we paid for it in the first place - what extra are you getting for $360. Obviously, the difference is in the word "accellerated", but this is never explicitly defined. When will you expect it if you sign up? When would you otherwise get it? There's no committment.


Also, what's with the July 2002 deadline for the upgrade? If they actually have the 752 ready by then, that's fine, but why can't it say that you have the option of an upgrade to a 752 when it becomes available, regardless of the date?


- Dave
 

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As I said on the other Panamorph thread, the VSR folks (or whoever is putting this stuff together) need to state, in very straightforward terms: (1) here's what we want you (the customer) to do, (2) here's what we (VSR/Cygnus) will do in return, and (3) here's the promises we are making to you. These promises should be made in terms of a warranty or guarantee, even though we will all understand it's only worth the paper it is printed on. And they need to avoid language like: "shall consider the replacement of any unit delivered as damaged, or a refund of this option, as a priority over shipments to other customers." What the hell does this mean? The current proposal by VSR/Cygnus is vague, incomplete, and appears designed to provide VSR/Cygnus with a lot of wiggle room.


On the other hand, perhaps we should stop complaining about poor communication. Every time we do, it only gets WORSE!
 

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The word "accelerated" is euphemistic and particularly ironic. The Panamorphs were originally due a long time ago. Now, the prospect is that you may never see yours, unless you pay this extra and uncontracted fee.
 

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I am assuming that they wouldn't send out deliberately broken units to collect $360. That is very clear mail fraud and nobody is that stupid.


There isn't a delivery date set but that isn't all that important if they don't plan to charge the card until the unit is shipped. The quicker they make them - the sooner they get their money.


Is it just me or is the price missing on this form? I see the rebate amount but I don't see the accelerated service price. I could assume they are the same but with VSR (who is still using Cygnus' website) you never know.


Other than that, the only real problem I see is that it is unclear who has control in the rebate or upgrade choice. Who discretion is it?


-Mr. Wigggles
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MrWigggles
There isn't a delivery date set but that isn't all that important if they don't plan to charge the card until the unit is shipped. The quicker they make them - the sooner they get their money.
I want to see a commitment to timeline so we can evaluate whether the program is succeeding.


We need to know if the first panamorph ships this Friday, 4 weeks from Friday, or next February. This also goes to the merit of the program.


--Les
 

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I'm interested in signing up for the accelerated shipping option/form. I noticed this, and someone else mentioned it -- there is no amount shown on the form.


How much should I get a cashier's check drawn up/made out for? $362 even? $362+shipping? $362+shipping+tax? Please let me know.


I'm worried that I'll sign up and then a week or month from now my Panamorph will arrive and I'll either have no money order or it will be for the wrong amount and the UPS man will take my Panamorph away (which would almost be a fitting end to this interesting, ironic chapter of my life :).


Thanks,

--Geoff
 

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Gongshow is missing out on this one...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by arrow



I want to see a commitment to timeline so we can evaluate whether the program is succeeding.


We need to know if the first panamorph ships this Friday, 4 weeks from Friday, or next February. This also goes to the merit of the program.


--Les
My point was: What difference does a timeline make? They never stick to it anyway. With them not charging until shipment, you are free to back out without paying if they take too long.


I guess it would nice to have them state the expected time of delivery; you could then multi-ply that lead-time by 5 to get an idea of when you'll get your lens.


-Mr. Wigggles
 

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But 5 * 0 is still 0. ;)


I'm just saddened by this sad state of affairs. On this forum, the Panamorph went from being the most talked about, most anticipated product launch of the year to being the most shocking and disappointing product that I've followed in a long, long time (maybe ever). I for one would love to see some angel investor bail out Shawn, rescue the Panamorph and turn the whole story around. In this economy, I'm not going to hold my breath tho.


-Mark
 

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I am still put off by the statement about about the FOB point.


I think it means that the lens is ours when they deliver it to the shipper.


How are these units going to be shipped?


If it is broken in shipment, you can deny delivery all you want, but I think that it will legally still be yours, and Cygnus/VSR will have fulfilled their responsibility by shipping you the lens.


No shipping info is on the page.


Are the units going to be insured???


Does the FOB point mean they want to add shipping to the COD?


What would the Money order total be?


A priority in the shipping of these lenses should be to limit the amount of handling the receive. Not having the correct COD amount would increase the handling. I would think the best way would be to pick up the package at the depot of the shipper.


I am just underwhelmed.


Doug
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by MrWigggles
My point was: What difference does a timeline make? They never stick to it anyway. With them not charging until shipment, you are free to back out without paying if they take too long.
I got your point and I understand why you're cynical. So am I.


I support the program, but not under an endless timeline and not if the timeline is missed like all others. I want this to be resolved amicably as much as anyone (well, maybe not Tyrg) and don't wish to cause any pain that would risk others to not receive their lenses.


I posted my request here and also sent Mr. Knittel a personal message. If I don't hear back from Mr. Knittel by Sunday, I'm going to proceed with my legal route on Monday. It also appears like I have the support of my credit card company. So I will continue that track as well.


--Les
 

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Have any of our more eager bretheren recieved an email confirmation of their COD order?


If not then those "businessmen" at VISR/CYGNUS are STILL incapable of running a mail order business using FTC guidelines. How f-ing hard is it to send email? Why would you NOT do so?


Oh yeah...so you can deny commitment and defraud the consumer at a later date. No email, no "paper" trail.


Watch your CC very carefully...I bet these "businessmen" will charge you now.


Nigel
 

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:eek: This site ( http://www.cgns.com/ADOProgram.htm ) does not have any security set up for acceptance of CC and other personal information. Any information submitted on this form is in the open (as of 11/9/01 a.m.).


nigel_ht said:


"Watch your CC very carefully...I bet these "businessmen" will charge you now."


If a hacker finds this site any personal information submitted will be his to do with as he pleases. It won't just be the "businessmen" and a bad situation could get even worse. With just the personal info on this page alone I would bet a criminal could steal your identity and get additional CCs etc. and make your life and credit history into one huge complicated mess. This is not a professional setup. I don't know how hard it is to set up a secure transaction site, but if you want my money you'd better have security in place.


Best of Luck to all with this project, but PLEASE DON'T USE THE PANAMORPH WEB PAGE TO SUBMIT INFO, IT IS NOT A SECURE SITE!
 
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