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(Note that there is no mention of even a hypothetical price in the thread subject.)


Well, I've been hunting around for prices on this item, and they are not forthcoming. This is really rather ominous. I've seen some pictures of it. It looks like somebody raided their local highschool and removed the upper components from those frail overhead projectors. It does not look like something that should cost a great deal of money, and the only reason I can think of it costing a lot is because it just happens that there are a lot of prosumers with money burning holes in their pockets.


Never mind, I found a post specifically mentioning the Panamorph's cost offhandedly. $1k. One thousand dollars?


Well, first of all, where?


Secondly, are there alternatives? Something with less brand-name prestige and more cost-performance. I've heard about something like an ISCO-II (I think). What's a standard price for one of those?


Thanks.
 

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You just missed an AV Science Powerbuy of the production version of the panamorph for $1200 - for that you get a brand new, warranted, final version with AV Science customer service. For $200 - $400 less you get a used or prototype version with no warranty. The ISCO II is actaully more money and can also b purchased from AV Science. Having just received my Panamorph, I can say that it is not anything like an old classroom overhead projector. In fact, the Panamorph seems very well buit and is actually quite haevy. Anyway, do not take my word, instead read the latest review in Widescreen Review magazine.
 

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There was a powerbuy for the Isco II a few months ago, for $995 I believe. As was just mentioned, the Panamorph power buy was $1200. Both of those prices are significant discounts off of the regular price. I do not believe you can get either of those lenses new for those prices anymore.


Both lenses are extremely high quality, professionally built. I'm not sure where your "raiding the local highschool" comment comes from.


Mike
 

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one alternative if you don't already have a projector is to buy a 16:9 native projector and put the extra money you would spend on the lense in your pocket.


-phil
 

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Or get a 16:9 projector AND the panamorph for 2.35! Best of all worlds?
 

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Bringing the thread back on track - alternatives to panamorph - look at:
http://www.prismasonic.com


Don't know anything re quality, usability, ...
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by ramick
Bringing the thread back on track - alternatives to panamorph - look at:
http://www.prismasonic.com


Don't know anything re quality, usability, ...
Ooohh...nice find.


From their message board...a fragment of an article that appeared in a French HT magazine (babelfished):

"The Assessment:


Generally, the distortions of the image appeared more significant to us with the Prismasonic prism than with lens ISCO, the prism also inducing typical effects of refraction (decomposition of the light) with appearance of small fringes coloured on the sides of the image, like certain typical heating effects of the prisms, like weak but sensitive variation of focusing being able to appear during projection. The development is also a little less precise than that of the ISCOII, but no effect of vignettage (screening of the pencil of light of the projector) was noted.


As one could expect it, the best results were obtained with lens ISCOII, but in both cases, the profit of the quality of image delivered by our projector (NEC LT75Z) is spectacular: the image seems to have more " fishing ", the colors are saturated, the defects of moved due to software conversion disappear and the plane backs are more precise and better defined. And especially: more halation around the image!"



It's about 600 Euro or about $500 USD. Not bad since they still call the image spectacular. I'm guessing that the French term for depth was mistranslated into "fishing" :)


Looking at the pictures, its a prism like the Panamorph though oriented on it's side and...um...backwards I guess. It's also a plastic prism lens rather than a glass and optical oil one.


Anyway, there's another AVS thread here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...ferrerid=33120


Nigel
 

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Back on track


The ISCO II is a nice lens. I originally was going to buy it. However, it has


one, small drawback. It cuts the throw distance 25%.


Panamorph does not change the throw distance, so those like me with a fixed throw distance (can not be moved)can only use the Panamorph.


The article you quote, when was it published?


Jeff
 

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What does zoom do to a pic through a pana?
 

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Were there a couple of posts removed here?


If so, there should be some record of that.
 

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Assuming that is true, that is WAY wrong. Is this an open forum? No, it is ownen by AVS. OK, I have no problem with that, BUT the mod's policeing should preserve the thread if only to remove statements not conforming to the rules. [I have clicked report this post to a moderator URL]


[Edt]

I posted to the moderator(s):

I (and others) would like an explanation to the removal of the posts to this thread. I have also saved these.
 

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You'll never get one. No one ever cares enough to make sufficient stink regarding post deletions.

As an owner of both a Panamorph and ISCO II do not recommend the purchase of a Panamorph.


The ISCO II is a much better product with better build quality and quality control. As an all glass and steel product it has no failure modes (other than dropping the thing) whereas some Panamorphs leak and some have failed completely in the first few months of use.


I find that the image produced by the ISCO II to be superior to the Panamorph in some scenarios and it's less expensive (power buy vs power buy and MSRP vs MSRP).


The Panamorph, in certain configurations required by projector placement and ceiling height, produces some non-linearities that are extremely visible in test patterns.


The only thing superior about the Panamorph is the mounting rail assuming either product can be used in your home theater. The Panamorph introduces a significant image drop in certain operation modes (ie the only good mode).


For the above reasons, my Panamorph is sitting on a shelf unused. I am a very satisfied owner of the ISCO II.


If you care about the non-technical reasons not to buy a Panamorph (for which there are many) you can PM me.


Nigel
 

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Well, I own a Panamorph and am very pleased with it. It introduces minimal distortion, mainly a bit of barrel, but makes the image very film-like. The track system makes it very easy to use. Most importantly, it does not change the throw ratio of your projector, a consideration which makes the Isco unusable for many, including me.


It will migrate with me to 16:9 as most DVDs seem to be 2.35:1. While ViSR hasn't been perfect, they have done a lot more than I would have expected given this product has probably been a black hole financially for them. Given that you can purchase this product through a supplier you can trust, AVS, I see no reason why you should worry about ViSR.


As to why a product like this costs so much it is simply because the ratio of development and marketing cost to the number of units sold is terrible, probably uneconomic at this point. There's a tendency to judge specialty products using the economic standards of mass-produced products and that just doesn't work.


Because a lot of Panamorph owners will probably look at this thread, I do want to give you a heads up on a problem I encountered. My high-output Sanyo projector causes the oil to heat up in the lens, introducing chroma separation after several hours of use. You'll see a greenish or blueish haze, depending on the colors of a scene, when this happens. I used the convergence grid generator in my NRS to see it clearly, the blue and green lines spread out and diverged when the lens got too hot. Starting cold, the grid was near perfect.


I'm improving the cooling using a computer fan I bought from Radio Shack. When I get it all set up I'll start a thread and show some pictures.


Dan
 

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I am one who bought a panamorph through the latest powerbuy. My reasons are for 2.35 DVD's, no change in throw, and it keeps the image on the bottom so a zoom might work for me to get constant height.


It is in the mail right now and may be with me tomorrow - I hope so, I would love to play around with it this weekend.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by DanHouck
Well, I own a Panamorph and am very pleased with it. It introduces minimal distortion, mainly a bit of barrel, but makes the image very film-like. The track system makes it very easy to use. Most importantly, it does not change the throw ratio of your projector, a consideration which makes the Isco unusable for many, including me.


Yes, but the panamorph introduces a drop that also impacts projector placement. In my configuration, the Panamorph is unusable without either introducing a lot of keystoning or flipping it upside down introducing the non-linearity issues covered in other threads.

It will migrate with me to 16:9 as most DVDs seem to be 2.35:1. While ViSR hasn't been perfect, they have done a lot more than I would have expected given this product has probably been a black hole financially for them. Given that you can purchase this product through a supplier you can trust, AVS, I see no reason why you should worry about ViSR.


Likewise the ISCO II will also migrate to my next projector. VISR is so far from perfect that the light from perfect hasn't reached them yet.


You worry about VISR for the same reason that you "worry" about any manufacturer that provides support for a product you own and may require maintainence regardless of how good your dealer is.

As to why a product like this costs so much it is simply because the ratio of development and marketing cost to the number of units sold is terrible, probably uneconomic at this point. There's a tendency to judge specialty products using the economic standards of mass-produced products and that just doesn't work.


And yet the cost of the Prismasonic is one half the price of the Panamorph. Somehow the raw material costs don't seem to make up for the difference in price. The development costs are probably similar...both are small companies with limited budgets and design teams.


These items are not uneconomic or no one would be making any. Not ISCO, not Prismasonic, not VISR and not whomever OEM's Runco's anamorphic lens (looks ISCOish).

Because a lot of Panamorph owners will probably look at this thread, I do want to give you a heads up on a problem I encountered. My high-output Sanyo projector causes the oil to heat up in the lens, introducing chroma separation after several hours of use. You'll see a greenish or blueish haze, depending on the colors of a scene, when this happens. I used the convergence grid generator in my NRS to see it clearly, the blue and green lines spread out and diverged when the lens got too hot. Starting cold, the grid was near perfect.


I'm improving the cooling using a computer fan I bought from Radio Shack. When I get it all set up I'll start a thread and show some pictures.


Dan
[/quote]


Hmmm...I was lead to believe that the optical oil performed uniformly when within it's normal temperature range...though I presume that assumes uniform temperatures throughout the oil body. Perhaps, because the prism has by its very nature different thicknesses which in turn results in slightly different temperatures due to uneven heating.


Perhaps you could attach a thermistor to the top and bottom plates of the Panamorph and see what the temperature delta is if there is one. That might give you a better idea of where to put the fan if there is a temperature gradient that is causing the oil to assume different optical properties or even a slow moving convection loop in the lens.


I wouldn't think the temp differences, if any, would be more than a couple degrees though. Is the separation uniform across the entire image or localized? Is your unit inside a hush box with the projector?


Nigel
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by nigel_ht


Yes, but the panamorph introduces a drop that also impacts projector placement. In my configuration, the Panamorph is unusable without either introducing a lot of keystoning or flipping it upside down introducing the non-linearity issues covered in other threads.
I mainly agree with Nigel. I also couldn't raise my projector, or drop my screen, so I flipped my Panamorph. My one comment/disagreement is that I consider the non-linearities quite minor. I can see it on a test pattern, but I can't see it on a movie. It's my understanding (note that I've only seen an Isco once, a while ago, so I'm not really qualified to judge) that the non-linearities are the same order of magnitude of distortion as the keystoning that the Isco introduces. In other words, for regular movie watching, it's not an issue (for either lens).


One advantage of the Panamorph is that you have adjustable compression. For me, I have a 1.85:1 screen, and I'm feeding my modified Davis 720P (unscaled by the Davis), so I have to scale the picture by, umm, well, I don't want to do the math. But I can just change the tilt of the Panamorph, and I can get it to fill the screen.


Mike
 

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I edited the posts because they had nothing to do with the original question and started the ranting all over again. That is a topic that has finally been resolved and I do not want it starting again.

Also who said this is an open forum. Its a moderated forum privatly owned.

If you wish to contribute finacially to the expense of this forum Im sure that would buy you some senority. Let me know. This can be arranged but I doubt Ill hear from you.


If you have a rant with VSR than go to their site and send and email to Tim.

Keep it off this forum unless you just ordered a unit through AVS and did not get your product.


Also I have a Panamorph and the Isco 2.

I measured more contrast from the Panamorph (using a minolta 200)and both lens add a little distortion to the edge of the image. Nether are perfect.


Each one works for a certain throw distance so you have a choice. You cant go wrong with ether product and one does not outperform the other in optical quality. If throw or placement does not work for you than choose the other lens.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Gouger
Also who said this is an open forum. Its a moderated forum privatly owned.If you wish to contribute finacially to the expense of this forum Im sure that would buy you some senority. Let me know. This can be arranged but I doubt Ill hear from you.
Alan is absolutely right. AVS owns this forum, and if they want to delete certain posts that are critical of certain companies while allowing other critical posts to remain, or only closing certain other threads that turn into rants (as opposed to deleting posts), they have that right. It's like, when you're the king, you don't have to be in the right, you just have to be the king. That's why it's good to be king. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Alan Gouger


If you wish to contribute finacially to the expense of this forum Im sure that would buy you some senority. Let me know. This can be arranged but I doubt Ill hear from you.
Alan, you have PM.


Nigel
 
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