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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Let me begin by giving a brief history about the person you folks have somewhat elected to be the forum representative to Shawn Kelly. I am a businessman who has, and has had, a handful of products that I have conceived, designed, manufactured, marketed and sold to make my business grow. I am moderately successful in that I am still in business and I have enough money so I can go home and eat. Oh, yeah, and set up a really cool home theater. Just a reminder - I was “elected/volunteered†to check things out simply because of my physical location to Shawn Kelly. I was in the original pre-buy and the P2 pre-buy. I have the first lens but not the second.


I emailed Shawn that I wanted to speak with him as a rep for the forum. He emailed me back stating that he thought it was a great idea so I squeezed some extra lunch time out of my schedule. He began telling the whole story from the beginning, which I will skim over as quickly as possible, but the history of this program is very important in the overall understanding. Remember this all started out with a curved mirror design that went through months of development only to come up short in meeting quality standards. At this time, something else happened. Shawn noticed the Home Theater market was after a product like this on a much larger scale than just a few forum members. Months of development had gobbled gobs of money, and he still owed us lenses. He had some serious talking to do with his wife about jumping into this project with both feet, meaning major financial commitment on their part. He was already putting in 7 days a week on the project which was taking a toll on his family life. After his wife evaluated the situation, saw the results of his new prism lens concept, and was convinced of the broad potential, she told him she was ready to make the sacrifices and go for it.


With feedback from us that the unit was too big and quality was #1 priority Shawn scrapped the mirror project and experimented with the prism idea. Now, very much committed financially, he REALLY had to make this work and also concentrate on a much larger market to keep the entire project alive. This had to work, and work great (for just about everybody) while still being cost effective. In late November 2000, he brought his now very expensive prototype to Alan in New York and got some rave reviews. He then tested it a few other places with the same reaction so it seemed the basic design looked like a go.


Plastic was the key to making this thing somewhat affordable. Remember the plastic mold days? Investing much more money and time in trying to make the plastic mold work, we all remember the delay after delay. The mold maker would tell Shawn, “looks like two or three more weeks†so Shawn would turn around and relay the message to us. Again, delay, delay. At this point, we are frustrated, Shawn is frustrated. April 2001, Shawn gets the finished product (which he brought with him to our lunch meeting) and was very disappointed. The best way to describe my reaction to the thing would be like this: You know how when you put on a pair of $1.99 plastic sunglasses then put on a pair of $150.00 Ray Bans you wonder how anyone can live with those plastic things? That’s pretty much it. Plus, it had major issues with glass breakage and oil leakage. After months of development and a lot more prototyping money, the plastic was scrapped.


Shawn was in deep at this point and there was no turning back. We were pressing hard to get our lenses but allowed for delay as long as it meant QUALITY, QUALITY, QUALITY. Aluminum was the only answer. He built a prototype and it was great, but the fact is that he was obligated to deliver a product to us at the pre-buy price, yet he knew that the increased cost of aluminum was required to turned our plastic sunglasses into the Ray Ban’s we expected. Not wanting to ask us for more money, he felt he could just take a loss on the pre-buy people and the more massive future sales would make up the difference. He pressed on, developing the aluminum idea only to have the machine shop that he had just arranged to build it go under. This brings us to May/June, when Don the manufacturing guy knew about the product from the previous machine shop and wanted to get involved even knowing it would be a while before they would be bringing in money off of new sales. There were more delays while Don set up a new operation to manufacture the Panamorph, but this was certainly faster than going to another plastic mold operation and the first pieces began to be built in July. I think at this point the money from the original people who ordered in the year 2000 was long gone. But while Shawn and his wife were stressed financially and emotionally from the seemingly 24/7 program, now there was light at the end of the tunnel, the product was really good, and it was actually being built and shipped.


It was time to really concentrate on getting much needed new sales to keep the ball rolling by putting together the product success with the growing market interest. But this was interrupted by standard assembly problems. The assembly people were constantly breaking glass, our glass. Some units leaked, it took just the right amount of screw torque to not bugger up the fittings, etc. So Shawn had to go back and concentrate on developing ways/fixtures to get these assembled correctly, no leaks, etc. This, of course, sucked more time and money of which there was very little left, but he hoped blue skies were just around the corner after the pre-buy people were satisfied. Units were shipping at the end of July with no revenue in return, only money trickling in from more preorders was just enough to keep things going. Yet everyone involved with manufacturing was working in the spirit that with the product performance achieved, soon the sales would be coming in. By mid August, with assembly issues now being handled by the manufacturing team and units shipping somewhat regularly, Shawn could now get to the new sales required to keep things going, and CEDIA was just around the corner.


Obviously at this time Stewart Filmscreen was taking a close look at the Panamorph prior to and during CEDIA, but ultimately did not go with it because it didn’t fit with their business plans at that point. However, the response at CEDIA was very positive overall, and again validated the Panamorph as a successful product for home theater. However, upon following up with dealers and manufacturers reps following CEDIA, the market became extremely still in mid-September for obvious reasons. Of course, this caused another delay in the distribution plans for new Panamorph sales. Shawn let me know the details of all these events, and I agree that it is sufficient to simply say that they happened, and this knocked the wind out of everyone involved in production. The faith that kept them going became suddenly faint. Many pre-buy units had been shipped at this point (about 25%) but there were many more to go to satisfy the rest. Don slowed and then stopped production until things got resolved. In late September Shawn contacted Paul James and Tim Knittel and explained the whole situation and the potential of the Panamorph. They began further validating the technology by getting additional reviews from significant parties in the projection industry. In October they agreed to help by investing partially into the operation and more significantly into the future sales and marketing activities, knowing that concentrating on the future was the key to helping the pre-buy orders get filled. This brings us to the not so popular VSR idea posted last Friday, and where we find ourselves today.


As I listened to Shawn I heard a story that was all too familiar. I have been through this type of product development a handful of times myself and it seemed like when Shawn told me about a stumbling block here or there he was looking for some sort of reaction from me. At these points during the story I would be thinking to myself, “Yeah. So. That’s how it goes. That’s to be expected. That’s business.†Quite frankly, from my experience, I think the development project went rather well. Success on the third try is not bad. I do know that prototyping is extremely expensive and I know Shawn went through a lot prototyping/process experimentation. In hindsight, to think my money was going directly to building my lens was just plain silly. I should have known this.


Also, something needs to be made very clear right now. Shawn is a good man. If you were waiting for me to come back and say, “Hey guys, I’ve got all of the dirt, this is how we can nail him…†then you sent the wrong guy on this mission. Unfortunately for those who wanted this, I related to this situation and the emotional feelings from a business stand point all too well. If this is what you wanted, you need to know you sent a businessman when you should have sent a tabloid writer. There is plenty to complain about, there is plenty of hindsight “should have done’s†but the bottom line is this: Shawn went through the obligatory business drama of pitfalls and mistakes, and the only thing he is truly guilty of is failing at something he really believed he could do. He is very upset about this, and still wants to do all that is possible to make it right. He is just a man. Just like you. Just like me. To those who wish to continue to attack him on a personal basis you really need to ask yourself: What makes you so great? If you go through life and expect to never be burned your going to be disappointed. In the end, it’s only money.


I would like to state that I have left out many details for the sake of time and because there are things I have promised Shawn I would not reveal and I understand his reasons. I see no advantage in abusing his trust. It makes no sense if we are to continue talking. I can tell you there is not any information that I am keeping that will get us our lenses any faster. It’s just information that lends to the overall understanding of the history, the finance, and the future. This is really where I am now one up on you guys in confidence level and understanding and I’m not sure yet how to transfer that feeling. In a way I feel like a member of the pentagon staff when asked what the next military strategy is. You can’t reveal this, because it could disrupt everything. Based on the numbers Shawn let me in on, when this product does break loose with its potential, the financial risk and emotional toll put out by the Kelly’s should nicely reflect the risks taken. When this happens, he plans to show us his appreciation in some manner.


For now, let’s concentrate on the issues and where we stand. Let’s use the past to our advantage and learn from it. Forget about screw-ups and finger pointing and all of the emotions that come natural. I think we have taken enough time for that and it gets us nowhere even if it might be satisfying. What we need here is a meeting of the creative minds that make up our forum. Our product is caught in programmatic gridlock. I say “our†because the way I see it, whether you like it or not, whether you knew it or not, we are all in this as one Panamorph team. You, Me, Shawn, the other guy, all of us that have a dollar put toward a Panamorph not yet in our homes. For those scrambling to get credit card paybacks from the credit card companies, I guess I can understand this effort. I don’t have much experience with it and I don’t know how effective it is, but if you’re looking to bail quick and you’re confident this is what you want and that you will succeed, nobody is stopping you. It’s not going to help the overall picture but it is understandable.


For those who wish to seek a lawsuit: I urge you to please STAY AWAY FROM THIS IDEA. If you have any previous experience with lawsuits you should already know they really suck. Even the winners lose, especially in a case like this where there is really no financial assets to be had. If you really want to screw up whatever hope there is left then go start a lawsuit.


Most of us did not care for last Friday’s posting of the VSR solution. We made fairly accurate financial assumptions and came up with a couple of our own solutions. One idea I submitted was to send me my lens in pieces and I’ll assemble it myself. I did not think it would be that tough. I must admit, though, after Shawn’s details of the assembly learning curve and the fixtures that are needed, I don’t think this is the right idea. Another approach was to offer up the money to cover the remaining costs to get the product out COD since there seem to be many units in some stage of completion. To a certain degree it makes some sense in that we would be paying for the product quality improvement over the limited-production plastic version. On the other hand, it’s not a real likable idea because this is not the original deal. But, it would get us our lenses. At this point that’s it. That’s all we could think of.


Shawn took the latter idea and ran some numbers for what it would take beyond the current state of parts to make all the pre-buys happen quickly. $360/unit is what it would take. Shawn knows this was not the deal people signed up for so he added something we did not think of - a rebate or housing upgrade at our option for this extra money by July 1 when regular operations are fully and historically established. If you choose to take this Don stated there are units ready to go within a week and many more ready to be assembled (I have not been there yet to confirm this). So, the first group of people to accept this should have their lens in their hands next week. If everyone chose this option, according to Shawn, all pre orders will be shipped by the end of the month. For those of us with a 235 (P561) lens on order, a more expensive $550 price tag would bring it to our door, with the same rebate for this next June. These would ship after the P752 lens.


This last option hits me like really yucky medicine. I cringe when I think about taking it. Six hundred bucks is a lot of money to me. With the impressive deals lining up for the Panamorph (that I cannot speak about) this idea of actually getting this rebate seems quite possible. Hopefully Shawn is not presenting a best case scenario. We do not need any more of those. Avoid disappointment, aim low. Knowing what I know now about what is waiting in the wings, the VSR plan does make it seem like I would eventually get my lens. I still think there would be some serious waiting involved. For me, this (the COD option) is the best option so far. I want this lens ASAP and I want this situation behind me. I would rather be saying to myself in the unknown distant future, “You know, I may have paid a bit much for that at $1900†rather than “I’m still waiting on my $1350 nothing.â€. Plus, I keep forgetting, if the program succeeds, I get the money back.


For those about to criticize, hold your keyboard for a second, do you have a better idea? If so, it would be cruel for you to hold back, this is what we need, the best idea possible. I said it before, Shawn is in this boat with us. He too is at gridlock until new arrangements happen and is listening for suggestions just like the rest of us to take care of the pre-buys as fast as possible.


For those who want their money back soon I think your best option is to spend the extra money, get the lens, sell it, and recoup the bulk of the money and take the rebate in June. For those that are totally against it and prefer the earlier VSR route, just stick with it. Try not to get upset if the people getting their lens by the COD method were behind you in line. This only gets you your lens faster by making the program roll.


Oh, yeah, I almost forgot communication. Shawn has asked for ideas on some form of rapid communicated method that also has historical answers so that people can see responses to issues previously addressed. The communication is a major complaint and criticism by us and he says the problem is time. The way I heard it, if you don’t hear from him for a long stretch, I assume he is usually out working with investor, sales/distribution, manufacturing and other issues. He says having the new team to push forward on the sales/distribution will certainly help in a short time, but when he is around, he tries to answer as many questions as possible but it really starts to take a big chunk of time out of his day when he knows he needs to be concentrating on product shipment. Anyway, he proposed a frequently asked question site or something. What he really wants is suggestions from us on how he should go about doing it in the most efficient way possible.


I understand a bit about the time for communications. Although this message to you does not compare to a small blurb Shawn might put out, I have SEVERAL hours invested in all of this. I was wrong to think I could go to a little longer lunch, come back, go online and report in. This could be my fault for stating so much of what I see personally. Anyway to answer many, many e-mails, sift through the threatening ones, put something on the forum, respond back to the forum, eats a lot out of the day. This is no excuse to not have any. We still need some sort of communication from Shawn or VSR. Especially if we are to be recognized as truly one team to get things rolling, we need information to be constructive.


The bottom line is that my impression, all things considered, is that yes, everyone will get their lenses. And as far as the product itself is concerned, I firmly believe as many do that our program is a success. After all this development the technology and products are phenomenal. I just want my lens right now without any further wait. So any other constructive ideas on getting our lenses ASAP are not just welcome, but very much encouraged.



Jeff
 

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Jeff,


Thanks for your insight.


$360 per unit isn't so bad and I truly believe Kelly means well. However, there's no way I'd cut another check to Shawn Kelly just to hear about the next stumbling block 4 weeks from now. I'm stupid. I'm just not that stupid.


The transaction must be COD. The "investors" should be able to come up with 20k or so to support their own rescue program if it's truly realistic. If not, they could trickle the lenses out and use the COD money to cover new shipments.


On the communication issue: The time excuse is ********. My suggestion to Mr. Kelly is post your status. You can post it here. You can post it on the VISR website. You can tape record your status on a mini tape and send it to me and I'll post it for you. Stop hiding behind the veil of no time. Oh yeah, and when you post, tell us the truth.


--Les
 

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Jeff,


Sounds like we were wrong about the Porsche, the babes, the real-estate speculation. No TV movie after all :(


Seriously, as a fascinated bystander in all of this and a possible future buyer of this lens, it sounds to me like you have performed a service to the pre-buy folks by formulating a finite exit strategy based on the practical reality of Shawn having parts but no money left to pay for assembly. Whats lacking now is a public commitment by Shawn to the strategy of x additional $ = guaranteed lens shipment.


The questions of value, contract, good faith, comparison to Isco II powerbuy pricing will all be debated, but if no money is left for refunds or ongoing manufacture, this may be the only practical solution. A lawsuit may result in a pyrrhic victory only.


And yes, COD makes a lot of sense.
 

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Thank you Jeff for all the time and effort you have put into this for all of us. I was a latecomer to the development of this product, but I did invest approximately 1400 dollars. I will be willing to pay several hundred more dollars right now if that's what it will take to obtain this product. I don't want to spend anymore than I have to of course. This obsession over obtaining the highest possible quality image from my home theatre is a disease that I have had for a long time. I have been working on my HT for almost 20 years, and it has been a fight at times. My wife will vouch for that. When you get into high end home theatre sometimes it's necessary to spend thousands to get even a small noticeable improvement.


I'm sure that I am not as frustrated as those forum members who have waited from the beginning to obtain their panamorph. This product would not even exist if it were not for them. I do not think it would be wise to initiate a lawsuit. I am not planning to try to get a chargeback credit to my credit card account. I think this product is worth many times what it cost many of the forum members. I would like to encourage them to think in these terms. Afterall it's like buying stock or mutual funds or investing in a startup initial stock offering. I have lost lots of money in this regard. I don't even want to think about that.


Since we know that there are already many lenses that are already completed or almost completed and ready to ship I for one am willing to invest more to obtain my lens. I think this lens is probably worth 2000 to 2500 at retail.


Shawn please tell me how much money I need to send (within reason). I just want my lens.


Larry Raulston
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Les,


It is C.O.D.


Thats the only way I think we can do it (we'll call it the COD option).


Remember also, this is not the ONLY option. Shawn does have some good things lined up that could happen REAL SOON and this option would not be nessessary. It it just a way for people to get the lens that are sick of waiting for the next good thing to happen.


Jeff
 

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Jeff - thanks for your hard work on our behalf! Your detailed post is very informative. I just started a thread about this a few minutes ago - figures, I didn't see yours. I for one am in. I am not prepared to hold grudges or place blame - it takes us nowhere!


If we keep this positive, then with luck, we can all be winners.


Les is right - we need to have a third party involved (C.O.D).


This hurts, but I'll live.


Cheers,


Grant
 

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Jeff,


If it's COD, sign me up today.


Frankly, I wish he would have just asked us to absorb the extra cost of the failures earlier. Many of us would have understood.


BTW, outstanding job by both you and Grant.


--Les
 

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Jeff-

Thanks for the report I agree with re the personal attacks. I have been repulsed by the outpouring of venon in regard to this matter and there is no excuse for it--so people please don't even try to justify your cruel and hateful posts because you are already diminished by them.


Lenny Eckian
 

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a) How many people need to sign up for the COD option? Is this on a person-by-person basis or is there a minimum number?


b) How will “a rebate or housing upgrade†be defined?


b1) A rebate is: A deduction from an amount to be paid or a return of part of an amount given in payment. What amount will be returned and how will this be guaranteed? There is no buyer protection on a cash transaction.


b2) What is a housing upgrade - did we not all pay for a fully functional housing?

-jeffj



Ps. If anyone wants to send me $360 (or $550) and let me hold on to it until July, let me know.
 

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Jeff,


Thanks for the update. The C.O.D. option sounds reasonable to me.


How do I sign up? I'm ready right now. Also, who do I contact to verify my shipping address? I've moved since I originally placed my order back in 2000.


-robert
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
To answer what I know about those questions:


1. I'm not exactly sure about this one


2. Don't know


3. This would be a full refund.


4. Housing upgrade is an internal adjustable prism that would allow more adjustment for slight linear distortion. Shawn offer this option a while back and refered to it as the "pro" model.


Jeff
 

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Maybe I have no right to weigh in on this issue, I am not part of the prebuy, but have been following the threads in disbelief. I can say that I have a pretty objective view, since I have no vested interest financially or emotionally.


Jeff, like you I too am a businessman. As a businessman I would never sell a product that did not truly exist. No matter how good a prototype is, it is still a prototype. From prototype to final sellable unit is always a large investment in time and money away. The traditional route from prototype to sellable unit is fronting the money yourself or finding investors. In return for the investment the investor gets interest on money loaned (in the case of traditional lenders like banks) or a portion of the company (in the case of venture capitalists). I will trust your assessment of Shawn and assume that his intentions were good, but his approach to the investment process was flawed.


By fronting money for a non existant product you all became venture capitalists with no interest in the company. Esentially (in good faith) you said "Here's my money, go develop a product you think you can make millions with, and in return give me back 75% of my money (in the form of the panamorph which he would have sold you at a 25% profit)."


All good intentions aside, the realities of product development kicked in and the inevitable happened, with you guys as the victims.


Before this reply goes on too long, Jeff suggested propose solutions, don't just gripe. If Shawn wants more money to cover the cost of finsihing the lenses, it should entail you receiving a portion of his company equal to your entire investment. You are Venture Capitalists in this, you are taking a risk of losing all of your money, however if it does take off like Shawn seems to believe, you should enjoy in that success for years to come.


Finally Jeff, in terms of communication from Shawn I would say this: there is absolutely nothing Shawn is doing in his business day to day that is more important than communication to his investors. It should be his first priority, not his last. Your summary above is the best thing that has happened in terms of communication on this issue and Shawn let it come from a third party. You said "Shawn is a good man", so are the people in the pre-buy, to the point where they will be reasonable if the guy who has their money continues to communicate with them. A post saying "Here's another delay, and here's why" is a thousand times better than hearing nothing. The mind on its own can imagine things far worse than a legitimate delay.


Just my $0.02


Rick
 

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Jeff,


An excellent write-up. You can see from the reactions to it (above) that the most important component of this situation is communication (yours here, and the lack of it in the past)...we all know that no relationship survives without it.


There have been some failures, set-backs and disappointments in this program, but IMHO, the only inexcusable failure is the failure to communicate status to paying customers. A simple text file on a web server would have done the job quite nicely for most, at an cost of maybe 3 minutes twice a week.


In the worst case scenario, the phone mail should have been changed to specify the URL that contained the information. Not returning phone calls and e-mail messages is really what started to upset people.


Great write-up, though. It's too bad that this type of communication could not have existed all along, but it's nice to read whenever it comes.
 

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Jeff,

Thanks for the effort; it is appreciated. Hopefully, Shawn can put together a fully documented page describing this transaction. What corporate entity are we dealing with now? Is this cgns or VISR or directly with michael machine?


For me, this lens is not worth ~$1,500. fyi, today is the last day of the $995 ISCOII powerbuy .

(i.e. low cost alternative to the panamorph)
 

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Well, I must say that his pretty much confirms what I already believed.


The only thought that comes to mind at this moment is that, regardless of what pretenses people bought in under, they were getting involved as investors in an R&D project, or at least that is where all of their money went. As a result I'm thinking that as investors people are really entitled to detailed financial statements of the company.


We have a real trust problem here, and I see no reason why anyone is going to extend any more trust than has already been extended... we are running on hope, the trust ran out a long time ago.


As a result I think that people need a lot more than more promises. People already have a vested interest in this business, having partially financed it from the beginning, I think that all of these 'investors' need more on paper, and need more say in how the company does business. You pay all the money, but you have no control and no information. The business model is broken and needs to be fixed.


If I am to wait for my lens until future sales are completed, I want to see the companies comprehensive sales forecast and marketing plan. They can not expect me to go on blind faith, I need to see the hard numbers.


Overall, in order to see and trust this company as a viable business, it needs to begin acting like one.


-Ted-
 

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Hey guys - I am not involved in this situation at all, but have an opinion/advice nontheless. Many of you might think this is none of my business- but here are my thoughts anyway.


I have started two technology companies, and some of what I'm hearing about Shawn's situation sounds real familiar, especially as it relates to the length of time and money it takes to get a product into defect-free manufacturing. In many well funded development situations, the first units (usually hundreds) are alpha and beta's which are not intended for sale. Sounds like this is what you guys are getting - if this is really true, then you really want someone there in the long run for maintenance and support.


I also have some experience with a business in crisis - you have to make some tough choices about who gets paid and who doesn't. Thirdly, the stress that Shawn must be feeling will be close to unbearable. To his credit, it is at least good news that he hasn't completely dissappeared. That could be the easiest way out for him, but it does not look like he is taking it.


Here is the advice part - if it was me, and I had money in this situation, I would want to have a complete understanding of the financial picture of the business before I threw any more money at it. I suspect that it will show that the business is in desperate need of an equity investment. Your new money could be headed for an unpredictable destination. For example, does anyone know for sure that there is not a lending institution involved? These guys can be dormant if they know there is no money to be had (blood from a stone analogy). However they can suddenly create some very uncomfortable demands if they sniff out that new money is available. I also have a guess that the COD thing won't be as simple as it sounds. I think the machine shop owner has been on this board already saying that he is owed quite a bit of money. Is he onside with a COD arrangement?


I don't want any of my comments to be misinterpreted. I believe the people on this board who have met Shawn that there was never any bad intentions on his part. Based on my own experience it sounds like the worst he can be accused of is getting in over his head in a situation that was not properly funded or understood. If the "investors" on this board can now obtain the financial information I am suggesting, then at least you are making your next decision with some supporting material. If you add more money, then at least you are going in with your eyes open.
 

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Very nice job Jeff! I am one of those that have received the Panamorph and I am using it with a JVC-G11 DILA with excellent results consistent with the other reports on the forum. I would respectfully suggest that the stake holders give serious consideration to the"COD" approach. Lawsuits et.al. will not deliver the product or produce much else of value IMHO. The Panamorph is a quality, high performance product and I hope that others will soon be able to enjoy the benefits that I do. Regards:
 

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Jeff,

Thanks for your efforts. I am very unsure of the status of people that received a lens & sent it back due to leakage & have never received a replacement? Thanks, Mark
 

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Thank you Jeff, you've performed a real service here. Maybe you should also offer Cygnus/ViSR communications training as well.


I've initiated a chargeback action which I expect to go through. However, if someone wants to take my prebuy position for the $868 I paid for it, I can stop the action. I don't trust the situation enough to plow another $360 in to it. Not because I think Shawn or anyone else is dishonest, my concern is that they really aren't too hot as businessmen.


The problem as I see it is now the lens is too expensive to sell in any kind of volume. Heck, you can buy a projector for $2500. A realistic price point for this is probably around $1300. Remember, HT prices are falling and technology is improving very quickly. The market for this product will probably not exist in 2 years. Most of us will probably use 16:9 projectors in our next upgrade. At that time, we'll have enough brightness and pixels that we just won't be motivated to add a bulky option like this lens.


If anyone wants to take me up on this, you should contact ViSR and work out the details to transfer my pre-buy position, and then get back to me. Obviously, it is in their best interests to avoid the charge-back action so I would hope they would be cooperative.


The lens would have been a nice enhancement to my system, but frankly it works so well now I don't feel strongly I need it. Particularly when projectors are evolving so rapidly.


Dan Houck
 
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