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Discussion Starter #1
Tonight I am off to a friends to play with the new Panamorph (he ordered 7/00). The best thing is I will get to loan it for sunday night to see how it performs on my Transvision.

It looks like quite a few are now in the hands of owners as Cygnus seems to be moving the backorders.


So do any of you guys have any hot tips or any thoughts ?

Look forward to sharing some thoughts later and then again on sunday nite when I finish playing with the Panny.



DavidW


[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 08-11-2001).]
 

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David,


Make sure you have a tape handy. Swiveling the lens in the brackets will give you different ARs. Swivel until you get a true 16:9 by measuring the borders.


If you could, would you especially look for the distortion in the image? In my table mount, it's in the upper third of the image. Inverted mount I'm guessing would be in the lower portion. The best way to observe it is to use a full window box like Win Explorer. I actually made a screen with nothing but Xs on it(Word or Notepad) that worked pretty good except you can't stare it too long. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Chris

I am armed with VE, Avia, Tape measure and a friends Minolta LS100 light meter. I want to see if I can confirm a few things first before I post some results.


I am pretty sure that his G15 is still table mount. My Dwin is in a hush box which I designed to mount the panny inside it and seal against the outer case of the hush box. At the moment it is just the Dwin lens poking through the front facia of the hush box so I will be cutting it out to suit the Panamorph and working out the sealing so its as good as air tight. I have the exaust and intake sealed and vented via tubing so no heat is in the box.

Its a real work of art and now I can finish it off with an actual unit to do the adjusting. (I may not give it back to him !! ha-ha)


DavidW
 

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It may not be aesthetically pleasing, but can't you just mount the 752 on the outside of the hushbox? You may have to dust it off a little more often, but it would be pretty convenient for sliding/tilting, which you may find the need for.


Chris
 

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Discussion Starter #5
If only life was that simple. I guess my biggest reason is NOISE I hate hearing fans (I am anal about it ,thats why a DILA was a no go and I got a silent Crt).

The other factor is the WAF thing.


I am planning on having it seal around the actual side of the lens just forward of the bracket so once it is in place I put on the lid of the hushbox and hopefully never touch it again except to clean lint and dust off the front of the Panamorph. The adjusting screws and bracket are inside the hushbox so no one can play with it unless the lid is removed.

The best thing is you can hear a penny drop while the projector is going (with no sound going of course).



DavidW
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Well I got a little busy at work and have had no time to report my findings. The G15 owned by my good friend was all setup and ready to go when I got to his house. First up we put on VE and we had a look and a measure of crosshatch and the resolution chart. We then placed the Panamorph half over the lens and observed the differences along with taking some measurements.


We could perceive no reduction in sharpness on the resolution pattern on VE. We actually thought the increase in brightness gave us a small edge improvement, perceived probably by the tighter packing of pixels. The 6.75MHz pattern on AVIA came off with flying colors and absolute no sharpness drop.


We then pulled up the fine x-hatch and tilted the lens until we had the boxes sized top to bottom, side to side at even measurements. Armed with a tape measure we carefully adjusted the tilt of the Panamorph to get it all the right aspect. It did have a very very small barrel roll, but we are talking being very fussy and each of us had to go back and check on the measurement, because it looked pretty well perfect.


The G15 was set-up with no keystone and dead straight. Adding the Panamorph did not change this which was good to see. We measured the brightness with the Minolta both with and without the Panamorph and we noted a 6 ft Lamberts gain (20%) when using the Panamorph to not using it.


I was a little unsure as to how much brighter it was, although you could see it had more brightness while watching video it was deceiving. The Minolta is a very accurate device, and although I am not as familure as the guy (photographer) who owns it, it became obvious we where seeing great improvements. Needless to say i can confirm that the Panamorph does increase the brightness quite nicely and it is no doubt at least 20% or better.

Showing Dark City it was obvious that the gains of using the Panamorph where obvious.


Now the most obvious part of the night came on a white wall !! We used this to see how much reduction in 4:3 light spill from using the Panamorph to using native.

Lets put it this way, the reduction is ""Dramatic"". We where laughing as we put the Panamorph in front, then away from the image. This has the effect of improving the contrast ratio because the spill is now put where it should be ""In The Picture"". Amazing difference, and a great way to show off your Panamorph. My friend with the G15 who had just sold his ISCO II said he is over the moon with what we saw and he is now also getting the 2:35 Panamorph when it is released.


So the end of the night came after we revisited many movies and I took to the road with his Panamorph in hand, waiting to see how this all will look on my own Dwin Dlp.


I can add that the Panamorph had no leaks as reported on early samples and its build and finish is absolutely first rate. My only gripe was that it is a little hard to clean the rear part of the lens due to the splash gaurd and angle of the prism and housing. Maybe not a drama if you have small fingers but mine are well "FAT and Chubby".


I will report on how I went with my Dwin tomorrow. But I can tell you that the Panamorph is one great addition and a must for those seeking widescreen from 4:3 projectors.


PS

Chris we saw no distortion in the upper third of the image. we did not have any setup dramas and we had it straight and going in about 1/2 hr after double checking with the tape.



DavidW



[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 08-16-2001).]
 

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Excellent report David. Good comment on the light spill. With the Pannie, even the top and bottom grey borders are smaller. http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


I'm so very glad to hear you say no distortion in the image. My 752 is on it's way back to Shawn now to be repaired/replaced. He's been really great in responding and resolving this issue.


Chris
 

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I know this is a stupid question, but when using the tape measure, what are you measuring and what should the required measurements be. For example, my screen is 45 x80.


Once I get the panny in place, what should i measure and what should it measure.


Sorry for the dumb question


Daniel
 

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Wow David! Great review(s), the best yet (IMO). You seem to have thought about everything I'm thinking about (and looking forward to once the second group of pre-buys start shipping). Can you comment on the image drop? Was it what you expected? Was the G15 on a table top or ceiling mounted. I gather your Dwin was ceiling mounted. I'll be using the pannie in a tabletop config. with a Davis DL-450. Thanks again for the great info.


--Geoff
 

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David

This may be a simple question to some, but not to this geometry challenged soul, what do you mean by resized the pixels. Are you referring to a test disc ie VE. As someone who has the Dwin and is awaiting the Panamorph Do you keep the Dwin in 16:9A for all sources ie 4:3 DVD ,SDTV, HDTV etc. and not remove the Pan. lens?

Thanks in advance

Michael


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tuckerdog
 

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David,


"My friend with the G15 who had just sold his ISCO II said he is over the moon with what we saw and he is now also getting the 2:35 Panamorph when it is released."


I'm not sure how to interpret this. Does he think the Panamorph is better than the ISCO II, or was the projector he previously used with the ISCO not as good, or...?


I'm curious because the ISCO's shorter throw would be better for me.


Thanks


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Noah
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well I could not wait to see what I could get out of my Dwin and I spent almost all night tweeking and playing movies.

First up I have a hush box which is totally sealed but is long enough so that the Panamorph can sit in front without any hassels.

The eventual aim is to finish off the front so that it is fully sealed and only part of the Panamorph sticks out past the front edge but the four edges of the Panamorph seals the front of the hush box.


I could not believe it the splash tray lines up to the exact inner dimension of the Dwin lens. I had a very good feeling as I did nothing more than sit the lens in front of the Dwin in the straight position.

I then slipped the Dwin into 16:9A screen mode this tells the Dwin that I have an anamorphic lens attached. I resize the pixels so that I am showing every pixel avaliable and measure and adjust till everything is square on the screen

Wow this went together like it was made together.


I played Fifth Element,Patriot,Dark City and Gladiator. The combo was pure amazing the dark parts of the movie had a sudden depth and feel that was like a new transfer. The pixels packed together so that unless you where 3-4ft away they had the fill of Marks G15. Light spill around the screen was decreased by at least 90% and the perceived shadow detail became just that shadow detail.


I witnessed a transformation in the lower light level areas of a movie with the Dwin/Panamorph combo. The edges and color depth seemed to be some how deeper and sharper. I noticed the resolution patterns from VE where some how more durable on the edges and the black thinning stripes became clearer or perhaps smoother rather than jagged.


No matter if I put in HD/Dvd or Sat the Dwin framed the 4:3 image inside the 16:9 screen or letterboxed it if that was the requirement. Dwin really thought about all sources going into the Transvision and using an anamorphic lens. Its a pleasure to use and a one button operation that even my children found was no different to normal operation without the Panamorph. Full credit to Dwin here for the ease of use and no drama with modes or stretching etc. Its press play and go.


This thing is absolutely amazing and I suggest all Dwin owners do themselves the favor of getting a Panamorph cause the image is excellent.

I think I am even more impressed now I have seen HD as Marks G15 could not take in HD because his HTPC is a Dvd solution and had no way of scaling HD.


Top marks to Shawn Kelly from Cygnus. The Panamorph is a true and great imaging addition that everyone can add and enjoy widescreen imaging at its best (or at least bulbheads can).


DavidW
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Quote:
Humey

I know this is a stupid question, but when using the tape

measure, what are you measuring and what should the

required measurements be.
I was measuring the aspect ratio (w/h) and the squarness of the cross hatch pattern on various parts of the screen.

Quote:
vmixer

Can you comment on the image drop? Was it what

you expected? Was the G15 on a table top or ceiling

mounted. I gather your Dwin was ceiling mounted.


Dwin is ceiling mount in a hushhhhh Box and G15 was table mount in the open but will go ceiling from what he is saying.

The drop was what we expected and pretty well spot on 0.081

Quote:
michael

goldman


what do you mean by resized the

pixels. Are you referring to a test disc ie VE. As someone who

has the Dwin and is awaiting the Panamorph Do you keep the

Dwin in 16:9A for all sources ie 4:3 DVD ,SDTV, HDTV etc.

and not remove the Pan. lens?
Oh boy you got it easy. Just put the Dwin in 16:9A under screen setup and operate as normal the Dwin does the rest no matter what input type or signal from HDTV to VHS. It pillarboxes (4:3) to the center of the 16:9 screen in the right aspect at full height. Just select your input and go Dwin has everything scaled and done correct with the Panamorph or Isco. When I said that I resized I was just checking that I was using every pixel which Dwin has setup (just that I am fussy and want to make sure I get every drop)

You will love it because its simple on the Dwin.

Quote:
noah katz


Does he think the

Panamorph is better than the ISCO II, or was the projector

he previously used with the ISCO not as good, or...?
He prefered the image and geometry of the Panamorph and it suited his planned ceiling mount and distance. His main reason was he could not wait for the Panamorph any longer and brought the ISCO 11 (at least till he seen what the Panamorph was like). He could have kept either, but he prefered the Panamorph and he had a buyer ready for the ISCO or the Panamorph once he seen them.

I am hoping he might join AVS and post his findings but he is not great at typing (not unlike me)and reads it often.

Hello Mark you piker!


DavidW
 

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David

Thanks again for taking the time to answer questions. It is MUCH appreciated

Michael


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tuckerdog
 

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Discussion Starter #15
No Problem. One thing I will say extra is that the Panamorph is very very simple to set-up. The confusion that some have had is in the setting up the height of the projector relative to the screen and the fact that you can not shift the image on the panel. Like using the projector normally if you go beyond its keystone abilities the Panamorph will show it. The Panamorph doesn't introduce keystone by itself only if your height ratio is incorrect.


Remember the whole idea is to use all the resolution and brightness of your choosen projector. If you do not use the whole panel you are not getting the maximum benefit.

If for instance you are showing a true 1:78 image on a true native 1:78 device (say 10Ht) you also will not be able to move the image without cutting of parts of the image as you move it off the panel.


The variable compression is easy to set and requires a tape measure and about 15 minutes at the max to set. I am super impressed with the ease of use but I guess I had plenty of time to understand how an Anamorphic lens works.

I can not wait to hear how this works on a Native 1:78 projector like the PLV-60 because putting all that resolution and brightness into a 2:35 image will look absolutely amazing. I am definitely getting the 1:33 to 2:35 lens as well.

After having this on my Dwin I can not see why anyone would not want a Panamorph on a 4:3 projector. Talk about great upgrades this is it.


DavidW


[This message has been edited by David Wallis (edited 08-17-2001).]
 

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david said:


"The Panamorph doesn't introduce keystone by itself only if your height ratio is incorrect."


as confusing as that sentence is, david's point is well taken - the panamorph doesnt introduce any keystone of it's own.


HOWEVER, the panny does lower your image (in a ceiling mounted configuration) substantially more than you would expect from the Cygnus calculator, which assumes ZERO built-in projector tilt.


so to compensate and keep the image at reasonable height

you are forced to tip the projector UP, introducing keystone.


yes, this is mentioned on the Cygnus calculator page, but they don't tell you how to compensate for it. i've calculated that my projector has what amounts to ~4 degrees of NEGATIVE tilt built-in. if you twiddle the calculator

to acheive a -4 degree tilt, you'll see that your image drops over 30" from the native 4x3 (where ~10" is desired).


20" amounts to a LOT of keystone, imo...


for more info, see my posts in http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/Forum10/HTML/008148.html


[This message has been edited by packlet (edited 08-18-2001).]
 
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