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Hey, just thought of a new strapline Panasonic could use;


Pioneer had Kuro but Panasonic could have Haiiro



Haiiro = Grey (Ashen) in Japanese therefore Haiiro is the new Kuro
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHUCKCHILLOUT /forum/post/18374694


There is a 36 inch XBR800 for $195,on Craigslist here I think I read it was 240 lbs.

My 36" xbr400 weighs around 200 lbs. The blacks have always been completely black, in the sun or a dark room they look like the tv is off. You have to wait for the programing to resume(cable) to be sure the set is on, very nice. I do notice on bright scenes the flashlighting from bright sources dancing in the blacks due to internal reflections but I have to look for it. Typical CRT "flaw". This one will be going into an exercise room, have to call a friend to move it though, ouch! Leather gloves are needed.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yukon Trooper /forum/post/18374508


That would mean the software differed from set to set, which I find hard to believe. I find it believable that Panasonic would have adjusted the software for units later in production (after they discovered the problem), but that all units before the adjustment -- respective to individual models, at least -- would more than likely carry the same predetermined voltage increases.

Unless there is enough variability between panels such that the software causes different reactions in different sets.


It could also be that some do not notice the difference, but it is there.
 

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Spoke to panasonic this morning. The person couldnt do anything so they escalated me to a manager or higher tech support which called me back.


He said there is nothing that can be done to fix black level. He said 2006-2010 panasonic plasmas use the same technology so the same thing is going to happen.


Sigh.


I argued that I purchased the set due to the companies claims of contrast ratio and pana black black level. And that. I wanted the set fixed to the way It was when I purchased it or I wanted a new set.


He escalated me again and said it would be 24-48 hrs before I hear anything. He also stated again that there is nothing that can be done about the black level.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike /forum/post/18373722


Well, after looking at the set this week it started to look odd to me. I checked the LCD and sure enough my set imploded and has much lighter black level.


Put a 54g10 on the chart.



I am now officiallly sick of this ****. 2 sony sxrd green blobbed multiple times. A 52v5100 with red and blue color flash issues(which is a defect), And now a panny that was the greatest set hosed itself in 7 months.


Not only have I had it with these dam sets. My neighbors and family think Im nuts.


Calling panny tomorrow and Im going ape **** on em.

Ouch. It looks like there aren't any defective sets that didn't rise after all.


You could always do what I did and get a 720p Samsung plasma that has better blacks than a risen Panny (less IR as well) I'm just sitting back and watching all the technology unfold at this point.
 

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I was going to replace my 34xbr910 for a 54 or 58vt25. Was going to move 200lb tube tv into bedroom. I guess that will have to wait for another year. I love u 34xbr910. You still look as beautiful as you did six years ago.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camster /forum/post/18373200


Well my tv failed that "internal test pattern" apparently according to a Panny CSR & I am awaiting delivery of a G20 next month here in Canada paid for with the refund Panny credited back to my store of purchase. So you might wish to follow it up instead of wondering about the concept... Just my $0.02

Can anyone explain the "internal test pattern" failure. What is tested? How is it activated? Can this help us prove the low contrast results from our TV's?
 

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Gets worse. Panasonic just called back form the escalation. This time it was the warranty department.


They stand firm with the thats the way it is stance. And Also due to the Class action lawsuit no refund or replacement can be issued. The lawsuit must now run its course. Sigh.



Looks like im in the market for a new set I guess its back to LCD maybe a LED one I guess. Dam I was so freakin happy with this set. It was as if I was looking at christ himself everytime I watched it. Now It looks like a pile of **** hanging on a wall.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike /forum/post/18376186


Gets worse. Panasonic just called back form the escalation. This time it was the warranty department.


They stand firm with the thats the way it is stance. And Also due to the Class action lawsuit no refund or replacement can be issued.

Poppycock.. that's what they think. Many states have some pretty darn good consumer protection laws that can have a lot of clout. In my state it's called a fit for purpose statute.

People bought the tv with epectations of the tv to have great black levels. Panasonic's own marketing & advertisements said that. The consumer didn't know that the tv's would soon (self destruct) due to being programmed to alter certain voltage settings.


EDIT >>> After thinking about this, perhaps the pending litigation already in process might have preference.. But I would think that the more involvement the better.

Strength in numbers, people... Let us all insist for either a repair or refund.


I know.. probably "wishful thinking", lol...
 

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****I interrupt the regularly scheduled banter, just to have a little fun, and to play Devil's Advocate, resulting in the following devious theory/plot.****


Could it be planned obsolesence?


I'm sure Panasonic doesn't want you to buy a new display every 10-20 years (60,000 -100,000 hour half life), but probably every 5 years so that they continue to sell product.


Problem is, you can only improve the display so much, and get blacks down so low (Kuro low). So aside from 3-D displays (should they catch on),and the panasonic product has been so reliable, so where do they go from there?


Maybe the evil empire also known as Panasonic, intentionally engineers it so that the black levels rise after a few years, and your picture isn't as vibrant as when it was new.
You walk through Worst Buy one day and after seeing the new displays, start thinking of replacing it.
Not because your reliable Panasonic display broke (that world hurt their reliability record), but due of the "natural aging process", the newer store displays "look better" than the one you already have.



Only someone goofed, and the blacks washed out sooner than they planned, and it's noticeable after only a year or so. Their masterplan was soon uncovered and now they are in a heap of trouble.



****Ok, now back to the regularly scheduled banter on how our black levels are rising and Panasonic continues to do nothing about it.****
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid /forum/post/18376560


****I interrupt the regularly scheduled banter, just to have a little fun, and to play Devil's Advocate, resulting in the following devious theory/plot.****


Could it be planned obsolesence?


I'm sure Panasonic doesn't want you to buy a new display every 10-20 years (60,000 -100,000 hour half life), but probably every 5 years so that they continue to sell product.


Problem is, you can only improve the display so much, and get blacks down so low (Kuro low). So aside from 3-D displays (should they catch on),and the panasonic product has been so reliable, so where do they go from there?


Maybe the evil empire also known as Panasonic, intentionally engineers it so that the black levels rise after a few years, and your picture isn't as vibrant as when it was new.
You walk through Worst Buy one day and after seeing the new displays, start thinking of replacing it.
Not because your reliable Panasonic display broke (that world hurt their reliability record), but due of the "natural aging process", the newer store displays "look better" than the one you already have.



Only someone goofed, and the blacks washed out sooner than they planned, and it's noticeable after only a year or so. Their masterplan was soon uncovered and now they are in a heap of trouble.



****Ok, now back to the regularly scheduled banter on how our black levels are rising and Panasonic refuses to do nothing about it.****

I remember all the attacks made against me for having that same theory a few months ago, but it does make perfect sense. (Panasonic Plasma sets haven't had any drastic improvments since 2006 when it comes to blacks)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON /forum/post/18376609


I remember all the attacks made against me for having that same theory a few months ago, but it does make perfect sense. (Panasonic Plasma sets haven't had any drastic improvments since 2006 when it comes to blacks)

Sorry if it appears that I plaguerized your theory, PENDRAG0ON, but I hadn't seen that post.


Exactly, especially with Serialmike's posting of the Panasonic Rep's comment:
Quote:
Spoke to panasonic this morning. The person couldnt do anything so they escalated me to a manager or higher tech support which called me back.


He said there is nothing that can be done to fix black level. He said 2006-2010 panasonic plasmas use the same technology so the same thing is going to happen.

2006.....2006.....coincidence?


Stranger things have been done before.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by serialmike /forum/post/18376186


Gets worse. Panasonic just called back form the escalation. This time it was the warranty department.


They stand firm with the thats the way it is stance. And Also due to the Class action lawsuit no refund or replacement can be issued. The lawsuit must now run its course. Sigh.



Looks like im in the market for a new set I guess its back to LCD maybe a LED one I guess. Dam I was so freakin happy with this set. It was as if I was looking at christ himself everytime I watched it. Now It looks like a pile of **** hanging on a wall.

Just curious, have you checked to see how many hours are on the TV?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsskid /forum/post/18376641


Sorry if it appears that I plaguerized your theory, PENDRAG0ON, but I hadn't seen that post.


Stranger things have been done before.

Oh I don't mind, the more people that come up with the same theory, the less crazy I sound. *puts a tinfoil hat on and hides in the closet*
 

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I'd just like to get some perspective here. When the black levels rise, is it from an ink black to a dark gray, or is it an ink black to a slightly less inky black? i.e. is it something that even a layman would notice, or do you need a lot of scrutiny and good eyes to pick it up?


Also just a basic technical question. Plasmas display black by not energizing the phosphors, correct? So how can black levels change at all? Off is off, right?


Oh, and tinfoil just amplifies the signals!


edit -nevermind about the technical question, I read the explanation in this thread. Sounds like this could be easily fixed with a firmware update.
 

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Just so everyone knows why 2006 Panasonic's are significant, it is the year that they hit .012 blacks (2005 models were over .02) the 2007 models had visibly deeper blacks, and yet they measured .012 as well (this is also the first year for 1080p models and they measured higher, I think it was around .015 out of the box) the 2008 models also looked much blacker, but they too measured only .012, this includes the 1080p models. 2009 marked the first black drops since to about .008 average and everyone marveled at how much darker they were vs past Panny models.... anyone else see the pattern?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious /forum/post/18376689


Also just a basic technical question. Plasmas display black by not energizing the phosphors, correct? So how can black levels change at all? Off is off, right?

The phosphor emitting light is just the end result of a complicated mechanism revolving around ionization of Xenon/Neon Gas. To maintain the quick ionization response of the pixels, even when not emitting light, every pixel must undergo a constant small ionization to generate seed electrons (called priming). This small ionization will energize the phosphors and create an unwanted background glow (black level)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox /forum/post/18376798


The phosphor emitting light is just the end result of a complicated mechanism revolving around ionization of Xenon/Neon Gas. To maintain the quick ionization response of the pixels, even when not emitting light, every pixel must undergo a constant small ionization to generate seed electrons (called priming). This small ionization will energize the phosphors and create an unwanted background glow (black level)

So this "priming" current is obviously computer controlled, otherwise there wouldn't really be a way to increase it outside of the factory. Why doesn't Panasonic just release a firmware update that resets it to a lower level?


My guess is that it's only really noticeable when watching in a dark theater room and this constitutes a small percentage of total buyers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by PENDRAG0ON /forum/post/18376719


Just so everyone knows why 2006 Panasonic's are significant, it is the year that they hit .012 blacks (2005 models were over .02) the 2007 models had visibly deeper blacks, and yet they measured .012 as well (this is also the first year for 1080p models and they measured higher, I think it was around .015 out of the box) the 2008 models also looked much blacker, but they too measured only .012, this includes the 1080p models. 2009 marked the first black drops since to about .008 average and everyone marveled at how much darker they were vs past Panny models.... anyone else see the pattern?

What is your point?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by spivonious /forum/post/18376843


So this "priming" current is obviously computer controlled, otherwise there wouldn't really be a way to increase it outside of the factory. Why doesn't Panasonic just release a firmware update that resets it to a lower level?


My guess is that it's only really noticeable when watching in a dark theater room and this constitutes a small percentage of total buyers.

According to the Panasonic Patent describing the issue, they raise the voltage in order to prevent misfiring of the pixels. If they lower the priming effect the picture will begin to break up as pixels will begin to misfire.
 
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