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Quote:
Originally Posted by mustangs1 /forum/post/18388345


Wow, even OOTB black level improvements are very marginal, certainly not enough to merit a 125X increase in the "Native Contrast Ratio"

Well if the dark isnt darker the only way the ratio goes up is if the light is lighter. So the sett is bettrer where it doesnt count much.


All null and void if that black level gets up to .1+ imo Even if the 2010 models didnt have the issue and were as good as the 09 ootb I would vomit in my own mouth giving them another 2k when I jsut gave them 1500 and they said FU to me.
 

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Id like to update my settings and request removal of my .030 reading. I consistently measured in 48hz mode prior to that reading and did not realize that reading was taken with this setting off.


Today, with 1370 hours, .019ftl.


Sorry for the earlier confusion...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by slosvt /forum/post/18388484


Id like to update my settings and request removal of my .030 reading. I consistently measured in 48hz mode prior to that reading and did not realize that reading was taken with this setting off.


Today, with 1370 hours, .019ftl.


Sorry for the earlier confusion...


This is odd. Correct me if Im wrong but 48hz or 60 shouldnt change the black level.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/18388553


Depends on the meter and software used to measure the display. Some software needs to be setup to sync with the display's refresh rate.

AH, thanks D. I without owning a meter wouldnt have known that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/18388553


Depends on the meter and software used to measure the display. Some software needs to be setup to sync with the display's refresh rate.

I didnt know that. Measurements were taken with Chromapure software and an i1 D2 referenced off of an i1 Pro. If I disabled the 48 hz setting on the G10, then my measurements increased to .031 ftl (even with brightness turned way under 50).


Either way the rise in mll has caused me to jump ship from Panny for my next purchase. I will be testing the waters with a 60" LG PK550, based on the intial review by Chad and its size/price point.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Artwood /forum/post/18388498


Is the bottom line of this whole fiasco to just wait until 2011 for a decent Panasonic Plasma?

That's what I'm doing. I was thinking about upgrading to a 58" or 65" from my 50S1 but there is no way I'm dropping 2 or 3 grand right now when next year they will have had more time with Kuro tech and may finally reach Kuro blacks and fix the stupid rising blacks issue. Really the only thing they have going for them this year is the better filter and 3D (not much to watch anyways) which I'm sure will be on the 2011 models as well.


This is not the year to buy a Panasonic plasma unless you absolutely have to upgrade for some reason.
 

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OK, am i going crazy? when i turn on the tv, on a blank input, it goes through the 3 distinct brightness levels (well not really 3, more like 2 and a half). after a couple of seconds it kicks back up 2 full brightness levels. I have CATS and all the other crap turned off. I noticed the increased black level before, but it never did this. This only started after they told me to do a hard reset on the set.


This is on a 42G15. is this normal behavior?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by paulr2006 /forum/post/18387256


Larry, forgive me if I'm wrong or have missed a post on this subject but surely if the voltage step function were to be reversed somehow then would this not cause a problem with the panels? I mean would they not start to "misfire" due to the phosphors being used to a higher voltage?....just a thought


I said "no know way." Which implies something less than redesigning the TV to correct the problem. If you know how, please share it with us.



EDIT: Paul, after rereading your post I believe that I misinterpreted it the first time. Yes, the misfiring is the basic reason for the voltage change. The problem is that Panasonic apparently was too aggressive with the voltage adjustment which resulted it the black levels increasing as much as they have. From what I can gather from the technical discussions, reducing the voltage now could indeed cause misfiring.


There is a 'proper' way to do it as has been discussed. Unfortunately Panasonic's engineers missed it. Now they have a situation where something more than a simple firmware change is required to fix the problem.


Sorry for the poor reading comprehension on my part.



Larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by thabiz /forum/post/18388964


OK, am i going crazy? when i turn on the tv, on a blank input, it goes through the 3 distinct brightness levels (well not really 3, more like 2 and a half). after a couple of seconds it kicks back up 2 full brightness levels. I have CATS and all the other crap turned off. I noticed the increased black level before, but it never did this. This only started after they told me to do a hard reset on the set.


This is on a 42G15. is this normal behavior?

I wouldn't assume that the color cycling on power on is related to the base luminance rising.


The base luminance almost certainly has risen and there is now apparent confirmation that this is affecting the G20 sets as well as the G10 and G15.


You need to use a test pattern through a HDMI or SD input to appreciate the extent of base luminance rise and whether or not it is a problem for you.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/18388294


if you want a band-aid for the problem, get your A-board replace every few hundred hours (this can only be done a limited number of times). If you want a real fix, get Panasonic to actually change their algorithm.

Can a fix technically be deployed by firmware update even if it does need an engineer install?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retty /forum/post/18389238


Can a fix technically be deployed by firmware update even if it does need an engineer install?

That's a good question, D-Nice. If Panasonic was inclined to spend the time, effort, and money, could they develop a correct algorithm that would fix the problem with a firmware update? Or is a hardware change required also?


larry
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retty /forum/post/18389238


Can a fix technically be deployed by firmware update even if it does need an engineer install?

You, nor anyone else, will be receiving a firmware update that you can install to fix this item. I've already stated exactly how a firmware update coule/would be implemented.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice /forum/post/18389476


You, nor anyone else, will be receiving a firmware update that you can install to fix this item. I've already stated exactly how a firmware update coule/would be implemented.

I just don't see how we get Panasonic to fix this issue. Now they're ignoring everything because of the pending litigation.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Retty /forum/post/18389235


I wouldn't assume that the color cycling on power on is related to the base luminance rising.


The base luminance almost certainly has risen and there is now apparent confirmation that this is affecting the G20 sets as well as the G10 and G15.


You need to use a test pattern through a HDMI or SD input to appreciate the extent of base luminance rise and whether or not it is a problem for you.

Luminance has definitely risen. Did some more testing and this cycling can be seen with content on the screen, not just a blank input. it does this every time i turn on the tv. picture starts out great, then the entire screen lightens two steps. its almost like the auto dimming found on lcd's. Except it gets lighter, not darker
 

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As D-Nice has pointed out, this will not be fixed. Only thing that will happen is you will get your money back or a new tv (neither option will happen).


Screw it. I'm picking up a b850. The buzzing cant be THAT bad.
 

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Why is it that we have a G10 at our store with over 5,000 hours last year and counting and the black levels are still amazing? I am more worried about these dam floating blacks than i am of my black level rising.


I had to buy a new TV as my Philips was losing color on both sides and massive line flicker ect...huge fiasco. The only option i really had was Panasonic as i am not a fan of Samsung Plasmas and Pioneers are wayy too much money. I will never go to LG after i saw my dad go through 3 of their dumb ass TV's before his Pioneer.
 
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