[DarthT]

I had the chance to test both Plasmas in the same environment (@home) and I thought that this forum needs a good and hopefully unbiased comparison of the two displays. Both AVIA calibrated.



Let me start with the famous black levels:


The Panny has the deeper blacks. The Pio displays blacks as a very dark gray.



Black/Gray details:


The Pio seems to be able to display more details in dark areas of the picture.



Color reproduction:


After AVIA calibration nearly identical. Standard contrast settings on the Pio way too high.



Flicker:


If you are sensitive to flicker and notice a difference between 60Hz and 72Hz on a computer monitor you'll notice about the same difference between the two displays. My wife and I can watch movies on the Pio for hours while we get a headache on the Panny after 20 minutes.



Plasma as a computer screen:


Both displays fed with the best native resolution (via Powerstrip) - a clear win for the Pio. It simply has the higher resolution (1024 x 768 vs. 852 x 480) (+ see Flicker)



normal TV feed:


Pio has to scale a bit more. Panny's native low resolution helps reduce scaling artifacts. (+ see Black levels, Black/Gray, color, Flicker)



HD feed:


Don't have it now - can't compare.



DVD feed:


Picture quality comparable. Slight advantage for the Panny. (+ see Black levels, Black/Gray, Color, Flicker)



Remote control:


Nearly identical - direct input selection possible with the Pio remote.



Price:


Both displays can be bought @

 

[tintinet]

Quote:

Originally posted by DarthT Flicker: If you are sensitive to flicker and notice a difference between 60Hz and 72Hz on a computer monitor you'll notice about the same difference between the two displays. My wife and I can watch movies on the Pio for hours while we get a headache on the Panny after 20 minutes.

So you've got a ~$3500 display that gives you a quick headache? Wanna sell it?

 

[DarthT]

I didn't say which or if I kept one because I didn't want to influence people.

 

[DonBerg]

You should have compared the Panasonic 42" HD and Fujitsu 42" displays too!

 

[R Harkness]

DarthT,


Thanks for the comparison.


I'm curious how you ended up with both these displays in your home. Did you have them side by side, or one after the other?


Your comments about flicker are curious. As far as I know, no one else has complained about flicker headaches from the Panny plasmas, so I'm amazed the BOTH you and your wife get headaches from the Panny. Are you talking about watching DVDs? (I'd think you'd get headaches in the movie theaters too, since flicker is often more noticeable and severe with projected film).


Rich H.

 

[Ken Ross]

I too am surprised by the "flicker" and headache remarks. I think I've only seen one other person comment about headaches while watching plasmas and I can't recall what brand that was.


I think it's pretty obvious that Darth preferred the Pioneer. Why on Earth would you keep a plasma that gives you headaches after 20 minutes???

 

[DarthT]

Flicker:


As I mentioned in my post - you'll notice it if you are sensitive to it. I also have to run my computer monitor with >85Hz. If the refresh rate is lower I also get a headache. I guess also the viewing distance is important here. I sit about 8 feet away from the Plasma. Think you can't compare it to movie theaters.

 

[DarthT]

There is a retailer which offers a 30 day return period.


Quote:

Originally posted by R Harkness DarthT, Thanks for the comparison. I'm curious how you ended up with both these displays in your home. Did you have them side by side, or one after the other?

 

[DarthT]

Unfortunately I have some budget limitations...

Quote:

Originally posted by DonBerg You should have compared the Panasonic 42" HD and Fujitsu 42" displays too!

 

[rogo]

Mike's Computer Co. (tm) offers a 30-day return. So does Freedom Potatoes Electronics (r).... Hmmm....


Anywho, although I've never seen flicker on the Panasonic nor gotten a headache from one, there is one point that is less subjective above: The Panasonic DVI "upgrade" is really basically worthless and should never be considered an actual feature of the display.


Mark

 

[DarthT]

 http://www.avforums.com/ (the UK version of our avsforum) has a lot of content on the Panny flicker problem. I guess in Europe people are more sensitive to it since they are already used to flicker free 100Hz TVs while in the US TVs are still 60Hz.

 

[DarthT]

Seems like I'm not the only one:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...light=headache

 

[wiscy]

I have to admit, the line about you and your wife getting headaches after 20 minutes didn't seem believable at all. And then leaving us guessing as to which one you kept. I kept picturing a scene of you returning from blockbuster. "Honey, grab some Advil, I got the Matrix."


But that's puzzling why you get it on the Panny and not the Pioneer. Is the flicker magnified somehow by the Panny's incredible 3000:1 contrast ratio? I did a quick check and found Panasonic's own site (at least the UK version) had this to say about it:

_________________________


FLICKER FREE PICTURES


Panasonic plasma display is able to display all input video signals in progressive format. This result in flicker-free pictures that are easy in the eyes.

______________________

So apparently they've heard of it as well.


-- Jeff

 

[DarthT]

Well Jeff...


I honestly don't care if you believe it or not. It is a fact that some people are more sensitive than other. That's why I wrote: "IF YOU ARE SENSITIVE TO FLICKER...". I see a lot of people here in the office sitting in front of 60Hz computer monitors and doing fine.


After reading through the UK forum I noticed that many people saw the flicker of the 5 (current) series while the old 4 series displayed the picture just fine. According to them the source of the problem is the single scan technology of the current series while the old one had dual scan (flicker free, but more motion artifacts). Might be an explanation...

 

[Brucer]

Quote:

Originally posted by wiscy "Honey, grab some Advil, I got the Matrix." -- Jeff

I had to laugh at this remark....Thanks for the humor.


DarthT-


Thanks for the observations.


I too have been following the Avforum chat for sometime now. I always thought it curious that those folks seem to talk about it, over there. Whereas, it is not a posted problem here. In fact, if you do a search on single scan vs dual scan panny's you will see that it was brought up here a long time ago (and the source of the concern was from our British friends).


Somewhere, I got the idea that when Panny switched to the single scan in the 5 series, I thought that they had to be using much faster Drivers (ie., being that there is half as many of them), to negate flicker & otherwise other specs would be thrown off.


I just find it interesting.


BTW, did you know ahead of time about the single / dual scan differences?


Since you notice it, is there any chance the dealer still has a 4 series that you can lay eyes on?


Thanks,


Bruce

 

[DarthT]

Brucer,


I was not aware of this before I got the unit. But after my observations I did some research just to see if anybody else experienced it.


No chance to get the older series - I'll have to wait for the new model this summer to see if they changed anything.

 

[R Harkness]

DarthT,


Ah, this is interesting. I do remember the discussions regarding the old series and "5" series, re single/dual scan.


I can see flicker quite easily, but my Panny 4UY (older version) looks wonderfully smooth and relaxing, which is one of the things I absolutely love about it. Perhaps the dual scan technology of the 4UY explains that.

(As you probably know, you can pick up flicker in your peripheral vision much better than your foward vision...movement detection and all that. If I ever have doubts if something is flickering or not, looking at it with my peripheral vision will tell the tale).


BTW, when it comes to flicker being an irritating problem, does the flicker have to be such that it is consciously visible....or can flicker that is so subtle that one cannot pick it up consciously, still cause irritation. (I suspect you have to be conscious of it on some level for flicker to bother, as those who do not pick it up are evidently not irritated).


Rich H.

 

[DarthT]

Rich,


I didn't notice it at first - the only thing we noticed was getting a headache after some time and not being comfortable viewing it. It became pretty obvious once I connected my Laptop to the Panny. After adjusting to the correct resolution with powerstrip and trying every refresh rate possible I now noticed the flicker (it is easier to notice with a non moving image). It looks like the refresh rate is fixed to about 60Hz. The Pio - still not 100% flicker free, but in the range of 70-75Hz.

 

[rogo]

DarthT: You quoted my post to prove that other people are sensitive to flicker. My point does not question that *you* are sensitive to flicker. It says, *I* am not aware of any.


I would prefer not to be quoted when your response relates to another matter, you know?


Thank you,

Mark

 

[DarthT]

Quote removed