AVS Forum banner

1 - 20 of 36 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I hope you do not take this down, it is to show how great the plasma TV was/is if you have one. My video my EQ. Here is the 4K HDR 55 Samsung Q80R Ultra Viewing Angle HDR playing a 4K HDR feed off the native built in app. To the right of the back window is the 50-inch 1080p Panasonic Plasma 2010 G series playing a separate feed (signal was not split) in 1080P of the same material. I tried to match it up the best I can, so they are not in exact sync but pretty close. The background appears to be much better on the Plasma. I told people before that this 4K was hype and I got banned etc. well here you have it. This HDR does look better than plasma in DEMO/Store Mode in brightly lit stores. If you engage that mode in your home, it displays massive soap opera effect and it is way too florescent for regular TV viewing. That HDR material in demo mode is not reality for your home, I tried to tell people this a while ago. Hey, you decide, if you still have less than 70,000 hours on your plasma hang on to it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bruce2019

·
Registered
Joined
·
895 Posts
I hope you do not take this down, it is to show how great the plasma TV was/is if you have one. My video my EQ. Here is the 4K HDR 55 Samsung Q80R Ultra Viewing Angle HDR playing a 4K HDR feed off the native built in app. To the right of the back window is the 50-inch 1080p Panasonic Plasma 2010 G series playing a separate feed (signal was not split) in 1080P of the same material. I tried to match it up the best I can, so they are not in exact sync but pretty close. The background appears to be much better on the Plasma. I told people before that this 4K was hype and I got banned etc. well here you have it. This HDR does look better than plasma in DEMO/Store Mode in brightly lit stores. If you engage that mode in your home, it displays massive soap opera effect and it is way too florescent for regular TV viewing. That HDR material in demo mode is not reality for your home, I tried to tell people this a while ago. Hey, you decide, if you still have less than 70,000 hours on your plasma hang on to it.
Don't worry my friend, I'm very happy with my plasma sets.
To me, they somehow just look more realistic, less "jazzed up."
And they help keep me warm in the winter time! :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
Love it..

Plasma is amazing.. You are totally safe here in the Plasma community.. :)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Plasma is great I still have the last 64 inch model made by Samsung. But you cant compare Plasma to an LED, only OLED if you want a fair comparison of similar technologies and type of pixel.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
You know someone already did that on here but they use the Pioneer Kuro and it beat the OLED or it was very close but they used a 1080P signal. This here just proves the 4K thing was a lot of hype and now the HDR, well see it for yourself, all I know is I have the plasma up and the other one is wrapped in plastic now. And for what it’s worth this QLED went against the LG OLED and it was basically called a drawer with the Samsung having the better white. Now QLED has the angles it was lacking . But this was 4K HDR on 4K HDR TV versus 1080 and a 1080 TV I’m not seeing it guys. Like I said it’s impressive in demo store mode and that’s how they draw you in. The picture is only going to get so good that’s my point I try to make it for a long time. 4K HDR, 8K. People want to feel like they are on the cutting edge I get it, but did the TVs reach their pinnacle with plasma technology? It looks like they did. Keep in mind OLED does not have the motion.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
63 Posts
Kind of rambling at this point. Don't get out of control over the love of your current tv. 4k is not hype, it is a measure of resolution that is superior to 1080p resolution by a long-shot. A lot of 4k content out there that clearly shows that. You don't need a side by side contest for any of that. It is just factual. We are no where near the pinnacle of tvs. OLEDS keep getting better and better until the next better tech comes out. OLED is way better than LED tvs and has the best contrast available of any tv. No tv is perfect yet though.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #7 (Edited)
Kind of rambling at this point. Don't get out of control over the love of your current tv. 4k is not hype, it is a measure of resolution that is superior to 1080p resolution by a long-shot. A lot of 4k content out there that clearly shows that. You don't need a side by side contest for any of that. It is just factual. We are no where near the pinnacle of tvs. OLEDS keep getting better and better until the next better tech comes out. OLED is way better than LED tvs and has the best contrast available of any tv. No tv is perfect yet though
My man stop trying to convince yourself ,,,,,,that’s what this thread is about ... look at that 4K HDR and look at the 1080P. Plasma by Pioneer has already beaten an OLED in many areas like motion etc. Look at the 4K HDR in this video and look at 1080P,..it is the technology ,..your eyes can only distinguish so much resolution in pixels in a distance, it’s all BS. I posted this video for you a reason, take a look.. You bought that BS 4K dung hype so did I, but I woke up. The 1080P plasma is killing it that 4K HDR and it is 4K HDR on a 4K HDR set, what more you need?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
That was probably the biggest manipulation BS I seen since the time they were trying to talk everyone out of using the component connection to HDMI for copyright and recording control over 12 years ago, so they would lower the color on the TV's with the component and feed it 480i at Circuit City. These shots reminded me of that, he took that out of HD mode many times for the plasma it was so obvious, his job is to sell a
3024499
3024500
set with 300 lines of moving res, but covers it up by speeding up the FPS and failing to mention the horrible soap opera effect that comes along with it. However at times the plasma still appears to show more detail in the background, the brown wall up and bottom has more detail, the OLED crushes the stars in the next scene...please... keep the soap opera 300 lines of rez burn in set, he is not fooling us.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Here is a comparison when one has no PAID agenda.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
A few years ago there was a video with Pioneer Plasma and an LG OLED...Can't find it now, but these were the results. BTW, what about all the videos I can find where the Samsung QLED matches the OLED with better whites to add? So Samsung QLED is OLED's competition, it is close I admit, but I got the same QLED, and my G series 2010 killed it with my top post here. Don't believe sponsored tests, the guy was even advertising a VPN for Surfshark on there, since Panasonic does not sell plasma anymore they are doing what they can to get you to buy their TV all over again with a bogus video. Funny when we the people do the side by sides the results are different, why? We are not trying to get people to buy a TV like they are. But the one thing that is proven, is the 4K was hype BS. If my Panny G gave better results with 1080 on a 1080 set compared to 4K HDR on a 4K HDR set what does that tell you? People are putting their plasma's on the sidewalk and buying the Samsung 80/90 QLED TV's because they buy into that hype and think bigger #'s mean a better TV. Well I'm selling one of these QLEDS for a good price. My 2010 plasma is up now and the 80R multi viewing angle QLED is wrapped up in plastic.
3024507
3024509
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,727 Posts
First, my primary display is a Panasonic 60" VT60 with an Oppo-203 and PC connected to it.

Second, my first large flat panel was the Pioneer Kuro 50" PD-111, which I still own but have not used since I purchased the VT60.

Third, the Kuro does a few things a bit better than the VT60 such as a lower black level but overall the VT60 has been a better display for me over the years.

Fourth, Vincent is a professional calibrator and has a long history of being very reputable and reasonably unbiased in his technical assessments. Like any human being he is occasionally wrong, such as claiming low nits HDR content as not being truly HDR, in spite of those infrequent errors he is far more reliable than some folks.

Fifth, most of your critiques of his video are incorrect or willfully disingenuous.

Plasma has been a great display technology and used to be the reference for PQ but the reality is that a quality OLED or high end LCD type displays have surpassed even the last best plasma displays in many respects.

I still find motion resolution to be superior on my VT60 without any motion interpolation engaged but the phosphor trails do diminish that advantage. Also the color contouring issues, the elevated base black levels, PWM noise are also aspects that negatively impact the final image that a good newer model OLED in SDR does not exhibit.

Detail clarity is indeed better on an OLED than the VT60 within the ideal native motion resolution capabilities.

Anyhow I wish OLED had as good off-axis viewing as my plasma since I often have to work to the side of my display and that is one reason I have not upgraded just yet to an LG OLED since Panasonics are not available in the US.

It is time to move on, be grateful for the enjoyment you have had with a good plasma display but there is little benefit to be so fanatically blinded by that admiration to being incapable of acknowledging and accepting that OLED has surpassed plasma on many appreciative aspects.

YMMV.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bruce2019

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
First, my primary display is a Panasonic 60" VT60 with an Oppo-203 and PC connected to it.

Second, my first large flat panel was the Pioneer Kuro 50" PD-111, which I still own but have not used since I purchased the VT60.

Third, the Kuro does a few things a bit better than the VT60 such as a lower black level but overall the VT60 has been a better display for me over the years.

Fourth, Vincent is a professional calibrator and has a long history of being very reputable and reasonably unbiased in his technical assessments. Like any human being he is occasionally wrong, such as claiming low nits HDR content as not being truly HDR, in spite of those infrequent errors he is far more reliable than some folks.

Fifth, most of your critiques of his video are incorrect or willfully disingenuous.

Plasma has been a great display technology and used to be the reference for PQ but the reality is that a quality OLED or high end LCD type displays have surpassed even the last best plasma displays in many respects.

I still find motion resolution to be superior on my VT60 without any motion interpolation engaged but the phosphor trails do diminish that advantage. Also the color contouring issues, the elevated base black levels, PWM noise are also aspects that negatively impact the final image that a good newer model OLED in SDR does not exhibit.

Detail clarity is indeed better on an OLED than the VT60 within the ideal native motion resolution capabilities.

Anyhow I wish OLED had as good off-axis viewing as my plasma since I often have to work to the side of my display and that is one reason I have not upgraded just yet to an LG OLED since Panasonics are not available in the US.

It is time to move on, be grateful for the enjoyment you have had with a good plasma display but there is little benefit to be so fanatically blinded by that admiration to being incapable of acknowledging and accepting that OLED has surpassed plasma on many appreciative aspects.

YMMV.
I am having not had, it is clear that Panasonic is trying to get you to buy another set in that video, that is their job. I can show at 5 videos from unbiased sources that show the Q80R and the OLED neck and neck, and my plasma beat my QLED Q80R, you ignore this, you ignore the videos and images above for a TV with 300 lines of moving resolution burn in iron. I do not have the VT 30, the G series I see no trails not even on the S series. The G has a blur reduction but on or off it causes no soap opera effect, the 2011 models started to do that with a setting. BTW, OLED is losing in sales to QLED, now that QLED has the angles problem solved it is taking off. Those images and videos above show different results. As soon as 4K LED came out people were dumping their plasmas for crappy sets, yes I was one of the many 4K naysayers who were correct. My original video in this thread shows that fact, 4K HDR on a 4K HDR set and 1080p on 108P plasma with the same movie, I don't care what the numbers you read off, many like me go by what we see. OLED will be a failed technology. The next set that will kill it and is the future is the Samsung self-illuminating QLED that has a 1 million hour life span. Each pixel like Plasma and OLED will be its own light source with no screen burn. As far as how the motion will be it remains to be seen. 300 lines of moving resolution is horrible tv unless you enjoy the still photos slides or engage soap opera mode. it's burn in failure with a screwed up blue pixel, so they had to add a white one to compensate and it washes out the background. This is where plasma and QLED beat it. You couldn't give me one for free, I had one for 3 weeks and took it back, now I'm selling this HDR Q80R.. The problem lies where OLED is exaggerated and it fanboys sweep its many flaws under the rug while treating Plasma like its now a 1970 480i Zenith. It is holding pretty dam good head to head with anything out there..unless, they are trying to introduce new products, suddenly the plasma looks like a newspaper. Why do you think Apple makes a big deal with every new iphone every year...THEY WANT YOU TO BUY ANOTHER ONE. Why do did they re-release albums with a bonus track or 2 on them, to get you to buy the album all over again. Notice right before you pay your car off you get a letter every week for 2 months to trade it in, THEY WANT YOU TO BUY A CAR ALL OVER AGAIN. They do the same thing with TV's. Anyone can see Panasonic wanted you to buy another one in that video. The plasma TV, with its motion, clarity, longevity beats them all when you have to look at everything combined.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,727 Posts
:rolleyes:

All plasma displays exhibit phosphor trails, it is the nature of the tech. To claim otherwise is delusional at best and deceitful at worst.

I used to sell HT electronics years ago when plasma was still around and a while after its demise and I sold a lot of LCD displays and a fair number of plasma displays. Even though I preferred the PQ of plasma most clients wanted the LCD units even though the picture quality was inferior. So just because one tech sells better is not indicative of superior performance.

QLED is only as good as the back light array and your model is unfortunately lacking in that regard. Any LCD based display will always be hampered by the density of the back light array. A higher quality LCD display with a high density back light array will deliver a very compelling image for SDR and HDR content. However in a lower lit situation the LCD will exhibit the inherent flaws of a given back light array. Hence why OLED is the superior choice for more light controlled environments for critical viewing.

Are you referring to Micro-LED? Now that is a promising technology that will indeed wipe the floor with the current OLED tech, however it is a sample and hold based tech and will have the motion resolution issues of both LCD and OLED.

With QLED the quantum dot filter can improve viewing angles and color volume but that is dependent on the quality of the filter and underlying LCD panel, back light, and video processing. QLED will never match the per pixel illumination capabilities of OLED, Plasma, or the possible future Micro-LED.

VT's video is not a Panasonic commercial and he would make a disclosure if it were. His rationale for the choices are reasonable and as fair as can be all things considered. Using the current well regards Panasonic OLED versus the last flag ship Panasonic plasma is really the fairest approach for such a comparison between two disparate display technologies.

As he discusses in the video by using two displays with a similar pedigree for image processing between the types of displays is truly the closest way for an "apples to apples" comparison.

You may not agree with the outcome and conclusions but you undermine your argument and premise by casting widely such nonsensical paranoid aspersions. By your very own rationale if QLED is out selling OLED then it would be more beneficial for VT to be making videos that solely favor QLED or any other LCD based options today.

Again I own and continue to use a plasma display for my primary TV and I no longer sell HT gear so I have not financial incentive to champion a specific brand or technology.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #15 (Edited)
Then why are results different?, It is so bias I can't believe he posted that. The QLED has a full direct array, it is not edge lit and again, I do have to posts with side by side comparisons where it beat the OLED or a virtual tie? One below in this post. Yet my plasma beat it hands down and their match is close...what do you not get????, What agenda do I have I own them both...then u speak of a set of 300 moving lines that is not what this was about..people are getting upset because a 1080p plasma beat a 4K HDR playing a 4K HDR feed...please..I posted my 2 sets...the guy above posted an 08 Pioneer plasma VS the 2019 Panasonic OLED, looked like a tie... the other screen shots the plasma looked better.,,, and no I was not talking micro LED but the Samsung self-illuminating QLED that has a 1 million hour life span, they are working on it. We are turning this into something else, you can rant and rave, but here I am forced to show how close the QLED VS the OLED is now, this is the 90 but I have R80 tests with the same results, actually the 90 has been said to crush the black so I went with the R80 as others did. So, again these 2 are close OLED VS QLED, but, my Plasma beat the QLED hands down where it wasn't close, what does that tell you? Stop drinking the Kool Aid my man.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #16 (Edited)
BTW, after looking at this video I was on to something but was wrong about him taking it out if HD mode..BUT HE HAS A DISCLAIMER IN THE VIDEO...THAT THE ISO IS SET HIGH. OMG, it is designed to deceive, for if you're not a cam or tech junkie people won't pay any mind to what it is, 2. most people are busy looking at the 2 sets and won't even see it, I just caught it myself this morning. It's always the fine or flashing print they throw in on the bottom right? Though he does mention that this is not what your eyes will see, it's really hard to understand him, = THIS IS NOT WHAT YOUR EYES SEE WHEN VIEWING. I have had some experience taking shots of sets with a high ISO. The first dark scene he shown I knew something was up, because he made the plasma look a cheap motel 2003 LCD Philips. So there you have it. Arguably the most bias and fixed video out there to portray plasma sets as a dinosaur, so he focuses on plasma's best known feature that was important to plasma owners (the black level), and sets the ISO to display images different than from what was designed to be seen and or will be seen with human eyes. Let's not get into the crushed blacks many OLED owners reported. OLED is not producing black by shutting the pixel off, with that comes side effects, like you seen in the very video he created, where the stars were not visible because they were so faint, the OLED rendered the pixel to be shut down, where the plasma displayed the stars crushed out by the OLED. Despite the video is intentional deception you can see the plasma reveal the white in the brown wall next to the woman where OLED did not...or wait...maybe the white was not there and it is a result of the high ISO. I remember when I took a shot of my plasma and someone told me to set the ISO higher, and there white spots and light all over the screen, that's what happened here, though perfectly calculated and designed to display just hay he wished. This is why the above shots and videos display different results with plasma VS OLED or plasma vs HDR 4K QLED. Well I hope SURFSHARK paid him well to make that video having nothing to do with Panasonic in any manner or designing it to appeal for OLED manufacturers to share. To all here on the plasma thread, this is what they have to do to deceive people to buy a set with 300 lines of moving resolution, oh, do they stress when they engage motion on the OLED to compensate it looks like a camcorder filming Days of Our Lives? OMG... doesn't get any better than this.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,268 Posts
Vincent knows his stuff, and he has an interest in promoting new technology.. I dont believe he tried to make the Plasma look bad.. But he tried to advertise the additonal features and capabilities of the 4k oled..

That beeing said..

He was quite surprised at how many Plasma Fans popped up in the comments and he got even quite a bit offended.. His main argument is that a 4k HDR display can do everything more that a 1080p SDR Tv cannot do.. That is his main argument..

To me it is not an argument.. Because if you want 4k HDR you have to upgrade anyways.. But if you dont want to jump on the 4k HDR hype train, you need to compare SDR performance..

Today I received my new cable tv Box.. A new fancy 4k HD box.. The catch is, there is only one 4k Demo channel running the same 1 hour content in a loop.. All other 70+ HD channels are 720p or 1080i.. So why do they give 4k boxes to the customers.. Because they have 4k tvs at home, and so they think they get 4k.. They dont even give out 1080p cable boxes anymore..

My argument is: If you watch the majority of your content SDR content, then a Plasma TV still rocks.. I even told him that if you put the Oled into Filmmaker mode, which is nothing but the "creators intendend" reference brightness, color and motion for SDR, he really got angry and called it "crippling" the oled.. Its not crippling the oled..

It is comparing SDR Reference..

That beeing said part 2..

In my country that ZT60 startet at 4500 Euros in 2013, one year later you could get it for 3000 Euros.. It was 60inch and in Europe only an 60inch model released..

He compared it to the TX-65HZW2004 that costs whopping 3800 Euros.. An absolute flagship monster..

And my bold claim is that a Plasma TV still delivers the more natural and cinematic picture in SDR.. 4k you dont miss anything, because every 4k Production is available in 1080p.. New consoles will be running in 1080p too, and even better..

Only thing you miss is HDR and super bright light output..

Still Oled is the logical step after Plasma..
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #18
Vincent knows his stuff, and he has an interest in promoting new technology.. I dont believe he tried to make the Plasma look bad.. But he tried to advertise the additonal features and capabilities of the 4k oled..

That beeing said..

He was quite surprised at how many Plasma Fans popped up in the comments and he got even quite a bit offended.. His main argument is that a 4k HDR display can do everything more that a 1080p SDR Tv cannot do.. That is his main argument..

To me it is not an argument.. Because if you want 4k HDR you have to upgrade anyways.. But if you dont want to jump on the 4k HDR hype train, you need to compare SDR performance..

Today I received my new cable tv Box.. A new fancy 4k HD box.. The catch is, there is only one 4k Demo channel running the same 1 hour content in a loop.. All other 70+ HD channels are 720p or 1080i.. So why do they give 4k boxes to the customers.. Because they have 4k tvs at home, and so they think they get 4k.. They dont even give out 1080p cable boxes anymore..

My argument is: If you watch the majority of your content SDR content, then a Plasma TV still rocks.. I even told him that if you put the Oled into Filmmaker mode, which is nothing but the "creators intendend" reference brightness, color and motion for SDR, he really got angry and called it "crippling" the oled.. Its not crippling the oled..

It is comparing SDR Reference..

That beeing said part 2..

In my country that ZT60 startet at 4500 Euros in 2013, one year later you could get it for 3000 Euros.. It was 60inch and in Europe only an 60inch model released..

He compared it to the TX-65HZW2004 that costs whopping 3800 Euros.. An absolute flagship monster..

And my bold claim is that a Plasma TV still delivers the more natural and cinematic picture in SDR.. 4k you dont miss anything, because every 4k Production is available in 1080p.. New consoles will be running in 1080p too, and even better..

Only thing you miss is HDR and super bright light output..

Still Oled is the logical step after Plasma..
The main video in this post has 4K HDR playing on a one of the best 4K HDR sets ever made, then I got the Plasma and played the same show forced to downgrade to 1080p on a Firestick and it is obvious plasma rendered the better picture.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bruce2019

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,727 Posts
Good grief PT, he is quite upfront about his procedure and why he did. There is no deception there.
VT typically informs the viewer that the video cannot accurately reflect the image quality in person, especially with HDR, and that is true.

I presume your kvetching is in regards to the video at the 4:57 mark. He is illustrating that the black level on the OLED is dramatically lower than the plasma and in order to keep the camera from clipping the black level on the OLED when directly comparing with the higher black level of the plasma he raised the ISO, resulting in the higher base illumination of the plasma to be even more pronounced. If he messed around with the aperture and shudder angle then that would have resulted in flickering and blown out on the plasma. VT also explains some of the issues with OLED at such low levels and the reasons why they happen.

Yes, older model OLED do crush low level black content which can be mitigated with calibration but there are trade-offs such as the potential of more noise or flashing depending on the content. I use a 55" B8 from time to time and have observed the loss in detail around 5 IRE range. The newer models do not do that as much and Panasonic & extent Sony addressed this sooner and better than LG did.

Once again I will emphasize that I have no horse in this race. My primary display is still the VT60 and I continue to enjoy the image quality. However I am a realist and can acknowledge that in spite some of the quirks of OLED that the tech has improved various things over my plasmas; such as lower black level, less overall picture noise, no false color contouring, no phosphor trails, etc.

HDR is not simply hype, when executed well in the authoring of the content and the display is correctly calibrated and performing within its ideal capabilities HDR does proved a visually compelling and beautiful image with a greater sense of depth. Never mind the improved color volume of UHD, even if it is a 2k upscale with the greater color range the results are lovely.

The Digital Trends video conveys a similar sentiment as I have previously discussed OLED provides an overall nice image than QLED but the reviewers opinions are conditional on the users specific case usages. "For Picture Purists," he recommends OLED.

Your first video is not really illustrative of anything and in fact is not very transparent about your methodology.
1. What picture modes are the respective displays set at?
2. Have either one be calibrated?
3. What other picture settings may be engaged or not.
4. What is the peak white level set at?

5. I presume one the QLED is running in HDR mode but which picture mode?
6. Are the devices connected to the internet via Ethernet cable or wireless?
7. What speed is your internet connection?
8. Is it sufficient to handle the bandwidth of both a 4K HDR stream and a 1080p stream?

9. What camera did you use?
10. What are the settings on the camera?
-I can see you did not lock down the White Balance nor the exposure.
11. Why did you not use a tripod.
12. Why not a more light controlled environment?
-The back lighting from the window throws things off a bit.
13. Your exposure settings blow out the image on both displays so one cannot make much judgement about contrast or black levels.
14. Due to the White Balance not being fixed, one cannot make any objective observations about color.
-Although your plasma exhibits a greenish cast to everything in your video. To whether that is reflective of reality or not I cannot say due to your camera set up.

I know VT has used Panasonic DLSRs in the past but I do not know which camera he used for this video, maybe still a Panasonic or perhaps a Sony. Either way his camera is of higher quality than yours and his methodology is more transparent and effective than yours in respects to how his camera is set up and why.

Yet again. Plasma is still a great SDR display, especially if you have one of the last Pioneers or Panasonics like I do, and it manages to do a few things as well if not a bit better than modern displays but the reality is LCDs and OLED have surpassed the plasmas on several appreciable factors.

The wider color gamut alone with 4K formats is fantastic and is beneficial for HDR-SDR downconversion playback apart from the highlights issues. The improved pixel pitch with quality 4k displays does provide a finer more detailed image. Now whether one can visible resolve all that detail is highly dependent on ones own visual acuity but more importantly screen size and seating distance. Most HT users will not meet the optimal criteria.

Anyhow enjoy your displays but it is foolish to claim 4K, HDR, WCG, or OLED does not provide any benefits to picture quality. They most certainly do.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
207 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
Good grief PT, he is quite upfront about his procedure and why he did. There is no deception there.
VT typically informs the viewer that the video cannot accurately reflect the image quality in person, especially with HDR, and that is true.

I presume your kvetching is in regards to the video at the 4:57 mark. He is illustrating that the black level on the OLED is dramatically lower than the plasma and in order to keep the camera from clipping the black level on the OLED when directly comparing with the higher black level of the plasma he raised the ISO, resulting in the higher base illumination of the plasma to be even more pronounced. If he messed around with the aperture and shudder angle then that would have resulted in flickering and blown out on the plasma. VT also explains some of the issues with OLED at such low levels and the reasons why they happen.

Yes, older model OLED do crush low level black content which can be mitigated with calibration but there are trade-offs such as the potential of more noise or flashing depending on the content. I use a 55" B8 from time to time and have observed the loss in detail around 5 IRE range. The newer models do not do that as much and Panasonic & extent Sony addressed this sooner and better than LG did.

Once again I will emphasize that I have no horse in this race. My primary display is still the VT60 and I continue to enjoy the image quality. However I am a realist and can acknowledge that in spite some of the quirks of OLED that the tech has improved various things over my plasmas; such as lower black level, less overall picture noise, no false color contouring, no phosphor trails, etc.

HDR is not simply hype, when executed well in the authoring of the content and the display is correctly calibrated and performing within its ideal capabilities HDR does proved a visually compelling and beautiful image with a greater sense of depth. Never mind the improved color volume of UHD, even if it is a 2k upscale with the greater color range the results are lovely.

The Digital Trends video conveys a similar sentiment as I have previously discussed OLED provides an overall nice image than QLED but the reviewers opinions are conditional on the users specific case usages. "For Picture Purists," he recommends OLED.

Your first video is not really illustrative of anything and in fact is not very transparent about your methodology.
1. What picture modes are the respective displays set at?
2. Have either one be calibrated?
3. What other picture settings may be engaged or not.
4. What is the peak white level set at?

5. I presume one the QLED is running in HDR mode but which picture mode?
6. Are the devices connected to the internet via Ethernet cable or wireless?
7. What speed is your internet connection?
8. Is it sufficient to handle the bandwidth of both a 4K HDR stream and a 1080p stream?

9. What camera did you use?
10. What are the settings on the camera?
-I can see you did not lock down the White Balance nor the exposure.
11. Why did you not use a tripod.
12. Why not a more light controlled environment?
-The back lighting from the window throws things off a bit.
13. Your exposure settings blow out the image on both displays so one cannot make much judgement about contrast or black levels.
14. Due to the White Balance not being fixed, one cannot make any objective observations about color.
-Although your plasma exhibits a greenish cast to everything in your video. To whether that is reflective of reality or not I cannot say due to your camera set up.

I know VT has used Panasonic DLSRs in the past but I do not know which camera he used for this video, maybe still a Panasonic or perhaps a Sony. Either way his camera is of higher quality than yours and his methodology is more transparent and effective than yours in respects to how his camera is set up and why.

Yet again. Plasma is still a great SDR display, especially if you have one of the last Pioneers or Panasonics like I do, and it manages to do a few things as well if not a bit better than modern displays but the reality is LCDs and OLED have surpassed the plasmas on several appreciable factors.

The wider color gamut alone with 4K formats is fantastic and is beneficial for HDR-SDR downconversion playback apart from the highlights issues. The improved pixel pitch with quality 4k displays does provide a finer more detailed image. Now whether one can visible resolve all that detail is highly dependent on ones own visual acuity but more importantly screen size and seating distance. Most HT users will not meet the optimal criteria.

Anyhow enjoy your displays but it is foolish to claim 4K, HDR, WCG, or OLED does not provide any benefits to picture quality. They most certainly do.
My eyes seen what the camera seen, that is why I got the camera and filmed it. Do you think I would have wasted my time displaying this if I didn't see this in real life, which plasma looks better in BTW. I didn't play around with the ISO to present a a false black level like the great deceiver did. Can you add anything else on your witch hunt to try to throw doubt on the results? Ask me what time of the day was it...oh you can see the sun coming trough the window hitting the side of the angled plasma which would be advantage to the QLED right?
HDR has an advantage over non LED sets, but not over my plasma, you can talk about green all you want, that is the way I adjusted the tint, and if you are talking about the first screen shot, the camera was in motion which resulted in the green being washed out on the QLED, imagine what a crappy 300 moving line OLED would look like? Leaves on trees and grass is green, because it is washed out on the HDR sets does not mean the plasma was incorrect. But anyone who looks at that video and can't see the plasma rendered better background detail than a 4K HDR set has no business even commenting on it. Go join his trickery videos that he gets away with with his flash disclaimer that this is not what your eyes will see. With a plasma you have TV meant to last, not only does it look better, but what is OLED, a piece of flimsy plastic? Why...it must be recyclable, "PLASMA, GET OFF OUR PLANET".Organic, green up freaks caused all this..plasma is not recyclable and is not energy efficient. That is a 10 year old set, see where the OLED's are in 10 years, so many of them are water bottles now as they were junked due to burn in which Mr. deception denies will happen if you keep watching different channels rather than one with a logo and to avoid games in another one of his videos. BTW, crappy soap opera OLED sets do not produce black the way a real TV like plasma does, it shuts the pixels off, this is why the faint stars did not register enough information to light the pixels up on the OLED vs the plasma on the great deceiver's deception video. So you either deal massive loss of detail in motion, or you deal with soap opera effect. They even advertise this by saying when you engage motion, for those of who are fans of the soap opera look will have no problem with blur. Yea, buy a TV so your Blu Ray looks like a camcorder. To add QLED has a better white than OLED, rather than look at one color that can be adjusted, talk about what is permanent. Yes QLED has a better white than both plasma and OLED, you have to pick your poison and look at the entire package, where plasma is a much better set than OLED. BTW OLED's added white pixel to compensate their deficiencies washes out a lot of scenes. Looks like crap. In these shots, the top set is Panasonic plasma and a Sony OLED on the bottom. The Sony OLED renders washed out whites as seen on the grass (and the Plasma does not produce too much green because grass is green not white as seen on the OLED). OLED's white pixel also washes out the face detail in the other images, and crushes detail in the dark scenes from a 2019 test. Yea, we can see this big evolution in TV technology green up freaks. Hey , I'll find the guy who created the video these shots came from so you can ask him what angle the camera was at or his tripod. so you can come up with more OLED apologetics..one thing for sure, he didn't fix the ISO to display deceptive results. It is amazing the lengths people will go through when their preconceived assumption is challenged with evidence...oh what camera was it, did you use a tripod...maybe it's the camera. you know what you look like right? MAYBE THE PLASMA RENDERED WHAT I SEEN IN REAL LIFE AS THE CAMERA REPRESENTED???? There were others in the house that couldn't believe it either that a 10 YR old non HDR 1080p plasma kicked one of the best 4K HDR sets ass out there with HDR content on the QLED, which is why I recorded it. Why couldn't they believe it? Because they bought that crap being shoved down everyone's throat to make them buy a new environmentally friendly set, that's why...Yea they get you in store demo mode in brightly lit stores...that is footage created and designed for those settings, dynamic mode with the contrast and other settings maxed out right? When they get the TV home and take it out of demo mode it's not what they seen in the store is it??? That looks better than plasma I admit, but again, deception..leading you to believe this is what you will see when watching TV. Kool Aid, all Kool Aid. My goodness. Please you bought the Kool Aid, not our problem. I'll be drinking Poland Spring out of today's OLED sets in 8 years while that plasma is still running.
 

Attachments

1 - 20 of 36 Posts
Top