So based on advice on my research through these forums and the good reviews I bought the Panasonic 42" S1 and have been very happy with it. Now I am reading all of this stuff about the black levels degrading over time and dont know if I should be worried or not. I ask this because I can return it up to this monday and then my 30 days are up. Am I really going to notice this with general TV and movie watching? I paid 699 for it which was a great deal. If I take it back I would have to get an LCD, probably a new Sony EX500 or something that would still be in my budget. Any advice? Thanks.
Panasonic black level issues
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I say keep it. You got a good deal on a very nice TV. I've got two of these and even though I only have about 600 hrs on the oldest one I have not noticed anything significant. Even then it would be better than any LCD at this price point.
Mike in Mich
I say keep it. You got a good deal on a very nice TV. I've got two of these and even though I only have about 600 hrs on the oldest one I have not noticed anything significant. Even then it would be better than any LCD at this price point.
Mike in Mich
All I know is if you stay on these forums long enough you'll find an issue with any TV regardless of the brand or technology. Even the Almighty Kuro has problems. I think you would be ok with the S1 but others might disagree. The most important thing to keep in mind is the perfect TV doesn't exist. You go out and buy a new TV and a month later someone claims there is a defect with that model, it has this issue, it has that issue, the list goes on...
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I have the same dillema. My 30 days on my 54s1 are up on Friday. I got it for $1250 with a 3 year warranty so I got a pretty good deal. I have about 400 hours and haven't noticed a drastic rise in the blacks. I wish I could tip toe my way back from the black level thread but I'm addicted. I realy feel like it's a toss up right now.
At that price I'd keep it for sure. I paid $1850 Canadian for my 50G10 & with that amount spent I'm upset about the black level rise disclosure. I believe I could have spent less say 12-1400 & got the same overall result. Had I paid say $1200 for this set I'd be less concerned. I actually spent more than I set out to (about 6-700 more) just so I wouldn't regret going cheap & being disappointed ironically. I had started out looking at the 50X1 only.
I'm not saying I have a bad set either but it is not as nice a picture as when I first got it either but still pretty good.
I'm not saying I have a bad set either but it is not as nice a picture as when I first got it either but still pretty good.
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18,330 Posts
According to Panasonic although the black levels are supposed to slowly rise over the next several years, the TV should still have excellent picture quality. Apparently most people either don't notice the gradual rise, or the severity of the rise varies from one TV to another. My G10 has about 1,500 hours on it and my perception is that the blacks are as good as they were when the TV was still new, but the guys in the Black Level thread insist that the black levels on all the 12G models do double so if that's true, then i'm still happy with my G10's black levels. Apparently it's mostly just noticeable in a dark room. Since reading that thread i'm questioning my perception that the blacks are the same as when it was new. If they have doubled, then my black levels are still looking good when i'm watching it at night.
Since you don't want to spend any more for a newer/better model then definitely keep your 42S1. It's a great TV and you got a smokin good price on it. Early indications are that the S2 isn't much if any of an improvement over the S1 so no sense in spending more for an S2 (basically a rehashed S1). There is nothing on the market that can touch your 42S1 at the price point that you paid.
But if you were willing to spend more money, then i'd say skip the S2 and spend another ~four bills for a G20/G25 model which should be a very big improvement over the S1/G10.
According to Panasonic although the black levels are supposed to slowly rise over the next several years, the TV should still have excellent picture quality. Apparently most people either don't notice the gradual rise, or the severity of the rise varies from one TV to another. My G10 has about 1,500 hours on it and my perception is that the blacks are as good as they were when the TV was still new, but the guys in the Black Level thread insist that the black levels on all the 12G models do double so if that's true, then i'm still happy with my G10's black levels. Apparently it's mostly just noticeable in a dark room. Since reading that thread i'm questioning my perception that the blacks are the same as when it was new. If they have doubled, then my black levels are still looking good when i'm watching it at night.
Since you don't want to spend any more for a newer/better model then definitely keep your 42S1. It's a great TV and you got a smokin good price on it. Early indications are that the S2 isn't much if any of an improvement over the S1 so no sense in spending more for an S2 (basically a rehashed S1). There is nothing on the market that can touch your 42S1 at the price point that you paid.
But if you were willing to spend more money, then i'd say skip the S2 and spend another ~four bills for a G20/G25 model which should be a very big improvement over the S1/G10.
LOL!
Why not 2020 Panasonics? We know just as much about them.
This forum seems to be infested with paranoid people who will never be satisfied with any TV they will ever purchase. Every new model will have what some consider a problem. It's not like plasma technology is exactly new, and it still has problems. And "better" technologies after plasmas will also have problems.
People need to stop being so OCD over TV's and just enjoy them. Unless you're a total shut-in, there's so much more to life.
LOL!
Why not 2020 Panasonics? We know just as much about them.
This forum seems to be infested with paranoid people who will never be satisfied with any TV they will ever purchase. Every new model will have what some consider a problem. It's not like plasma technology is exactly new, and it still has problems. And "better" technologies after plasmas will also have problems.
People need to stop being so OCD over TV's and just enjoy them. Unless you're a total shut-in, there's so much more to life.
A friend just asked me to recommend a TV(to replace a CRT so they were going to keep it a long time). I was going to recommend a Panasonic Plasma, so I came here for a quick update. But after finding this out, I just recommended a Samsung LCD.
A black level that gets steadily worse over time, is a major flaw IMO and worse it is one that Panasonic seems to acknowledge as a "feature". So their TVs are out of the running for me and anyone I would recommend to as well.
At least with an LCD the blacks won't get worse over time, heck they might even improve (they have on my CCFL LCDs).
A friend just asked me to recommend a TV(to replace a CRT so they were going to keep it a long time). I was going to recommend a Panasonic Plasma, so I came here for a quick update. But after finding this out, I just recommended a Samsung LCD.
A black level that gets steadily worse over time, is a major flaw IMO and worse it is one that Panasonic seems to acknowledge as a "feature". So their TVs are out of the running for me and anyone I would recommend to as well.
At least with an LCD the blacks won't get worse over time, heck they might even improve (they have on my CCFL LCDs).
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But the black levels of the Panny, even after a few years, will likely be better than most LCDs (not to mention better side-angle viewing and no motion blur). IMO, better advice would have been to wait for the 2010 Pannys (being rolled out) and check back to see whether they are better than the 09's.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion. But the black levels of the Panny, even after a few years, will likely be better than most LCDs (not to mention better side-angle viewing and no motion blur). IMO, better advice would have been to wait for the 2010 Pannys (being rolled out) and check back to see whether they are better than the 09's.
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So because you're all mad at Panasonic about the black levels rising issue, you tell your friend to buy a technology which has a whole bunch of other issues and problems and constant complaints from people who buy them and are disappointed. And on top of that, you recommend the most disreputable and underhanded criminal-empire company in the C.E. industry that has a long history of poor build quality and generally poor customer service. What a pal
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Even though i'm also mad at Panasonic about this one big issue, my G10 still looks better overall in every category than virtually any LCD TV, and i would still recommend a 2010 Panny to a friend or relative if they cared at all about picture quality and build quality and longevity. It's also less expensive inch for inch and is a lot more likely to last way longer than a Samsung too. I just don't see the logic.
So because you're all mad at Panasonic about the black levels rising issue, you tell your friend to buy a technology which has a whole bunch of other issues and problems and constant complaints from people who buy them and are disappointed. And on top of that, you recommend the most disreputable and underhanded criminal-empire company in the C.E. industry that has a long history of poor build quality and generally poor customer service. What a pal
Even though i'm also mad at Panasonic about this one big issue, my G10 still looks better overall in every category than virtually any LCD TV, and i would still recommend a 2010 Panny to a friend or relative if they cared at all about picture quality and build quality and longevity. It's also less expensive inch for inch and is a lot more likely to last way longer than a Samsung too. I just don't see the logic.
Criminal? That seems a bit strong. Everything I read leads me to believe LCD is more durable. I still see people jumping through hoops to prevent plasma burn in/IR.
I have a Sumsung LCD TV and other than typical LCD shortcomings (viewing angles/motion resolution/middling black that I seldom notice in standard viewing position) it works great with my HTPC, it is on right now at the windows desktop and I don't have to freak out about it burning in. It doesn't make any buzzing or other noises and it doesn't even get that hot.
There are tradeoffs either way. This climbing black "feature" is a final straw pushing me away from plasma.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/18221614
you recommend the most disreputable and underhanded criminal-empire company in the C.E. industry that has a long history of poor build quality and generally poor customer service. What a pal![]()
It's also less expensive inch for inch and is a lot more likely to last way longer than a Samsung too. I just don't see the logic.
Criminal? That seems a bit strong. Everything I read leads me to believe LCD is more durable. I still see people jumping through hoops to prevent plasma burn in/IR.
I have a Sumsung LCD TV and other than typical LCD shortcomings (viewing angles/motion resolution/middling black that I seldom notice in standard viewing position) it works great with my HTPC, it is on right now at the windows desktop and I don't have to freak out about it burning in. It doesn't make any buzzing or other noises and it doesn't even get that hot.
There are tradeoffs either way. This climbing black "feature" is a final straw pushing me away from plasma.
Don't let the plasma pumpers here get to you. LCDs are more reliable period. Look at the insane steps that plasma owners here have to go through from the first day they get their TV. Owning a plasma is about as laborious as owning a dog (I guess that's why they get so attached to them, it's their baby). They aren't even supposed to move them with the panel laying horizontally for crying out loud. And as for Panasonics standing behind their own products, did you know that calibrating the colors of a Panasonic plasma on your own automatically voids your warranty?! This is something that any Sony Bravia can do from the Picture menu with a remote.
And the argument that a Panasonic plasma with rising black levels still has better black levels than LCDs is absolutely rubbish. My low-end Sony Bravia has far blacker letterboxes than my brother's timebombed Panasonic G15. And yes, I can still see the dark details. His letterboxes glow.
Don't let the plasma pumpers here get to you. LCDs are more reliable period. Look at the insane steps that plasma owners here have to go through from the first day they get their TV. Owning a plasma is about as laborious as owning a dog (I guess that's why they get so attached to them, it's their baby). They aren't even supposed to move them with the panel laying horizontally for crying out loud. And as for Panasonics standing behind their own products, did you know that calibrating the colors of a Panasonic plasma on your own automatically voids your warranty?! This is something that any Sony Bravia can do from the Picture menu with a remote.
And the argument that a Panasonic plasma with rising black levels still has better black levels than LCDs is absolutely rubbish. My low-end Sony Bravia has far blacker letterboxes than my brother's timebombed Panasonic G15. And yes, I can still see the dark details. His letterboxes glow.
My thoughts exactly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWalters /forum/post/18221614
So because you're all mad at Panasonic about the black levels rising issue, you tell your friend to buy a technology which has a whole bunch of other issues and problems and constant complaints from people who buy them and are disappointed. And on top of that, you recommend the most disreputable and underhanded criminal-empire company in the C.E. industry that has a long history of poor build quality and generally poor customer service. What a pal![]()
Even though i'm also mad at Panasonic about this one big issue, my G10 still looks better overall in every category than virtually any LCD TV, and i would still recommend a 2010 Panny to a friend or relative if they cared at all about picture quality and build quality and longevity. It's also less expensive inch for inch and is a lot more likely to last way longer than a Samsung too. I just don't see the logic.
My thoughts exactly.
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