[srm1964]

Here is my situation:


Equipment: Panasonic DMR-EH75v (2006 model)

Service: Broadcast Basic package, Cablevision of Brooklyn (analog switching to digital)


Under Cablevision's analog service, my EH75 has determined that the TVGOS Host Channel is 14 (Cablevision Guide channel). It also appears to receive some updates on Channel 13 (PBS). I have received notification from Cablevision that at the end of February, they are discontinuing all analog service and that I need to use a Scientific Atlanta 4200 cable box to receive Broadcast Basic service.


After receiving one from Cablevision, I set up the SA4200 as follows:

Coax from wall into SA 4200

Coax from RF out on SA 4200 to RF in on EH75

Coax and RCA from EH75 to TV


I entered the TVGOS setup and configured as follows:

Country and Zipcode, no change

Service: Cable with Cable Box (Antenna not selected)

Connection Channel: RF3

Digital Service: yes

4 digit channel selection

Cable Box: Scientfic Atlanta with appropriate remote code


After confirming the settings and turning off the EH75, it performed a quick scan of Channels 13 (PBS), 2 (CBS), 80 (the Cablevision Guide which was on 14 analog service) and 14 (Madision Square Garden). It remained on 14 (MSG).


I thought this an odd selection, as I am not authorized for MSG (not part of my package).


I re-entered the TVGOS setup, keeping everything as above, but changing the zip code to the next neighborhood, also serviced by Cablevision of Brooklyn. This had the effect of setting the host channel to none and started a scan which ran from channel 1 to channel 999. I periodically turned the EH75 on when I wanted to watch TV and let it resume the scan from where it left off. After three passes of scanning 999 channels (approx 60 channels per hour), the EH75 could not detect a host channel.


I re-entered the TVGOS setup, changing the zip code back to the original and changing the channel selection to 2 digits. Scanning resumed, from Channel 1 to 99 for three passes, uninterrputed. Still no host channel found.


Finally, I removed the SA4200 and reverted to my original analog setup. A host channel was found on analog 14 (Channel Guide) right away. As I have to use the SA4200 by the end of the month to continue receiving service, I have several questions I hope someone can answer.


1) Does Cablevision transmit TVGOS as part of its digital service? If so, what is the host channel?

2) If they are using digital 14 (MSG) or any other channel I don't subscribe to, does that block the TVGOS data?

3) Are there any other Cablevision (Bronx, Brooklyn, LI) customers who use the TVGOS service and are able to get it via digital service?

4) Am I making any mistakes in my TVGOS configuration?

5) Is there a way to combine an ARTEC T3APR-T DTV converter with Cablevision so that I can get TVGOS data from the Artec and programming from cable?


Thanks for any help!

 

[Westly-C]

The guide data is actually transmitted over one of the local tv stations in all markets...Macrovision-now owned by a company dubbed Roxi(?), entered into a deal with CBS for cbs affiliate stations across the country to carry the signal in their broadcasts-if they choose to...it's not mandatory.

If a CBS station decided not to, usually the PBS station (which sent the datastream out prior to the CBS deal) would continue transmitting it. Most cable companies are supposed to provide an analog version of the now digital OTA stations, which would allow the TVGOS to continue receiving data.

I own a Panny E85H, and it still picked up guide data after the digital transition from my local CBS station.


So what you need to do is email both the CBS and PBS stations in your area and ask if either is transmitting the TVGOS data. Once you confirm which-if either, is sending it out, then email Cablevision and complain...

 

[srm1964]

Thanks Westly-C for the info. According to other posts, the local CBS station is carrying the TVGOS signal OTA.


With the DTV transition, Cablevision is supposed to keep transmitting the analog versions of OTA stations and not require a cable box. However, they were granted a waiver by the FCC to remove analog service and go encrypted digital for OTA stations, so long as they provide the required cable box free of charge for two years.


I've already written to both Cablevision and Rovi regarding the situation but have yet to receive a reply from either.


Assuming Cablevision is not carrying the TVGOS signal in their digital transmission of OTA stations, is there a way I can use a DTV converter like the Artec to get the OTA TVGOS signal from CBS and still use Cablevision for the stations in the Broadcast Basic tier that are not available OTA?

 

[CitiBear]

Interesting! I had no idea Cablevision was encroaching on Brooklyn, I thought I was stuck with the Time Warner monopoly: gotta look into that!


Analog TVGOS hardware like the Panasonic EH75, and my own Pioneer 531, have been rendered obsolete by the switch to DTV. Time marches on, nothing lasts forever, and analog TVGOS is basically dead now- New York is just the last major market to drop it (the rest of the country went slack months ago). The company that owns TVGOS has no particular interest anymore in promoting or pushing it, and does not have any real influence or pressure to bear on host stations. If they did, they would look like fools: the TVGOS pilot signal is analog, but all OTA transmissions are now digital, so there is no point in pressuring stations to transmit the signal in digital- our recorders cannot tune digital broadcasts without a converter box, but most converter boxes don't convert the TVGOS signal (they weren't designed to). There is such a thing as digital TVGOS, and some markets do transmit it, but no DVD recorders can directly use digital TVGOS: its been relegated to an on-screen channel guide for flat-display televisions (mostly Sony).


As you've discovered, "old" TVGOS survives primarily thru cable service analog tiers, but those are fast disappearing. Cable regulations do not guarantee the right to analog boxless service, they only require the cableco to provide a decoder box free of charge if they decide to discontinue analog service. Almost all cablecos have jumped on this loophole, because maintaining a single digital transmission is easier and more cost-effective than keeping the ancient analog system in tandem. Once Cablevision discontinues its analog service in a few weeks, its unlikely you'll still be able to pull TVGOS from it. You might be able to, if Cablevision doesn't actually pull the plug on that particular analog host channel, but you'll need to use a splitter to hook up both the direct cable and the decoder box to your recorder.


I believe elsewhere on AVS there is info from other Panasonic owners confirming the later models can pull the TVGOS signal from the bare cable feed while simultaneously controlling a line 1 decoder box for all the other channels. Look for posts by members Rammitinski and ppppl for more detail on this point. Another variation on this trick is to buy the DTVpal digital TV converter box (not the same-named recorder, the cheap converter box). Apparently the DTVpal does separately convert the digital TVGOS signal from digital host channels back to analog: if you have decent off air reception of the host channel, the DTVpal can feed the data to your Panasonic tuned to channel 3 while again the recorder operates the cable box for everything else. This arrangement has worked in some areas of the country but I haven't heard it confirmed for New York yet: perhaps you can be the first. Again, many more details can be found in dedicated Panasonic recorder and TVGOS threads here on AVS: you should browse those asap. These tricks may or may not work with your EH75: the "old" EH75 has the older TVGOS which I hear can only use a single input, the later 2006-era EH55, 75V and 85V are more adaptable for TVGOS workarounds.


Good luck!

 

[jjeff]

I believe smr1964 actually has the EH-75v (the '03 E75v has no TVGOS feature) and the EH-75v is '06 like the EH-55. That being the case you should be able to use the DTVPal CECB or a certain Artec CECB that converts the digital OTA TVGOS to analog for use in your DVDR. It's not the easiest to setup and your market(I can't believe NYC wouldn't) must have a station(usually digital CBS) broadcasting the TVGOS.

You can check this thread for more information on TVGOS. I think it also has a links on hooking up a CECB to convert TVGOS for legacy DVDRs like your EH-75v(which is similar to a EH-55 which lacks the VHS but has a larger HDD).

Having read the many horror stories from people that tried (hard to setup, works for a while then quits, incomplete listings etc. I've given up TVGOS for my EH-55 and just use manual events. If I had cable and all the channels that come with it I may be more interested in keeping TVGOS working.

 

[Rammitinski]

It's really hard to find the DTVPal CECB these days, but the Artec is still available ( www.meritline.com has it).


I don't know how well those things work with cable, though, if at all.

 

[jjeff]

It will only use OTA for the TVGOS signal, recording will be done from the line input from your cable STB. Note the EH-75v must have a code to control your cable box, some STBs work but many times the cheap DTA converter boxes won't, also the box must have a line output(since the DVDRs only RF input will only be used to get the OTA TVGOS signal from the CECB).

 

[Rammitinski]

I know that the EH75V can control the DTVPal (at least it's supposed to be able to - I could never quite get it to correctly myself - some others here apparently have with the EH75/55, though), but I don't really know about the Artec. He'd have to research that. I would imagine it would have to use some kind of reasonably familiar code (the threads for it in the CECB forum tell you the brand name of the cable box for the code, if you want to look that up. I don't feel like sifting through all that stuff myself right now).

 

[jjeff]

You're right, if the DVDR is controlling the CECB with the IR blaster then it can't also control his STB

So I guess someone can NOT use the CECB to only get TVGOS and also use the blaster to control their STB.

I guess if his Cablevision doesn't provide analog TVGOS he's SOL

 

[Rammitinski]

Best thing to do then would be to see if you can get a cable box with internal timers (if he doesn't already have one), and just synch/set the ones on that and the recorder manually.

 

[7558037]



Quote:
Originally Posted by jjeff /forum/post/18124225


You're right, if the DVDR is controlling the CECB with the IR blaster then it can't also control his STB

So I guess someone can NOT use the CECB to only get TVGOS and also use the blaster to control their STB.

I guess if his Cablevision doesn't provide analog TVGOS he's SOL

Maybe an interesting thought...

Might be worth it to try a duplex plug in the DVDR IR blaster port with TWO BLASTERS, one on the CECB and one on the STB?


They should only "conflict" during the TVGOS download times, when the CECB is changing channels for a TVGOS data search (3X/day?), leaving the timer record blaster on the STB all the other times to send/receive a channel change signal?


Many types of duplex plugs are available... mono, stereo, etc. I think blasters are simple mono plugs?

 

[jjeff]

That's a good idea but the problem I see is you must tell the DVDR what IR code set to use and to change to a different set you'd have to go into the DVDR setup and change it.

I can't really see a practical way to get the TVGOS OTA and record from a cable STB

I guess I would have run into a similar problem recording OTA because I would have wanted to use the Pal only for TVGOS but record from the CM-7000 which has a better picture than the Pal.

I think it's time for a Tivo or Moxi and just use the EH-75v to offload programs, that or live with no guide programming

 

[Kelson]



Quote:
Originally Posted by wajo /forum/post/18124311


Maybe an interesting thought...

Might be worth it to try a duplex plug in the DVDR IR blaster port with TWO BLASTERS, one on the CECB and one on the STB?


They should only "conflict" during the TVGOS download times, when the CECB is changing channels for a TVGOS data search (3X/day?), leaving the timer record blaster on the STB all the other times to send/receive a channel change signal?


Many types of duplex plugs are available... mono, stereo, etc. I think blasters are simple mono plugs?

The blaster is configured for codes of a single device during setup. A splitter will do no good unless the CECB and STB use identical control codes -- unlikely.

 

[CitiBear]

Admittedly I haven't used TVGOS for a very long time, mostly because the version in my old Pioneer is poorly designed and buggy compared to the far better Panasonic version. I still follow the updates people post on various threads, though, and it was my impression you could instruct the later Panasonics (EH55, EH75V) to not search an assortment of channels, but stick to a single host channel of your choice. I'm pretty sure I've read posts from several Panasonic owners who have the DTVpal connected to the recorders analog tuner via the box's RF output, and their cable box connected to line input. Supposedly you set the EH75V to always download the TVGOS data from the DTVpal connection, over a single defined channel, with no need for the recorder blaster to control the DTVpal at all: the Panasonic blaster changes channels on the cable box for recording only.


Unless I'm completely misinterpreting some previous posts, this exact setup is the reason the later EH55 and 75V are still highly sought after: they are sophisticated enough to understand what you're up to, they can pull direct TVGOS data from one connection while controlling an entirely separate cable decoder via the blaster? Whereas the earlier Panasonics with TVGOS, and my Pioneer 531, must use the same connection for TVGOS data and recording?


jjeff? Kelson? Rammitinski? Am I totally off track with that interpretation of the EH55/75 advantage?

 

[jjeff]

I think the advantage of the EH-55/75v is it's ability to get TVGOS from Dish and it's also the most recent analog TVGOS version, with several feature upgrades from, for example the '05 EH-50.

I think smr1964 will probably get the best info from the master TVGOS thread I linked in my prior post. Personally I've used analog TVGOS to control my CECB but that was back when TVGOS was still broadcast analog OTA. I just haven't felt like going through hassle of trying to get it working post analog, I use my Tivo for guide and programming and only use my EH-55 to offload the Tivo. Although during the Olympics I may need to do some live manual events(with my DVDR and CECB) due to both Tivo tuners being tied up and the need to record a third event

Damn I hate it when programs are scheduled to run 1 or 2 minutes long, screws up BTB events on different channels

 

[Rammitinski]



Quote:
Originally Posted by srm1964 /forum/post/18119265


Finally, I removed the SA4200 and reverted to my original analog setup. A host channel was found on analog 14 (Channel Guide) right away.

Ah - I didn't see that part (must've been my ADHD acting up). Then you are definitely still getting the analog TVGOS signal.


Try taking the coax passing through the cable box to the recorder out of the equation, and split the coax signal from the wall directly to the box and the recorder independently, and then see what happens (that's just in case the signal's not "passing through" the box).


Also, try different setup choices - like "Cable without a box", etc. (that actually may be the key right there).


One of those variations should work then.


Now, there's a chance that you could still be picking up a host channel, but for some reason you're not getting any data. That should remedy itself in time, though, whenever they get things right. If you're getting impatient, you can give them a call.

 

[srm1964]

Thanks to everyone for your help and advice!


Here is where I stand now:

I have set up the SA4200 again, configured as follows

Coax from wall into EH75v

Coax from RF out on EH75v to RF in on SA4200

Coax from SA4200 to TV

RCA from SA4200 to IN3 on EH75v

RCA from EH75v to TV


I entered the TVGOS setup and configured as follows:

Country and Zipcode, no change

Service: Cable with Cable Box and Antenna

Cable Connection Channel: IN3

Digital Service: I don't know (this was a choice, along with yes and no)

2 digit channel selection

No channels higher than 127 (*this isn't strictly true, the box goes to 1000, but I don't have access to anything assigned to higher than 127 and why let the box scan 999 channels)

Cable Box: Scientfic Atlanta with appropriate remote code


After confirming the settings and turning off the EH75, it tuned the box to Channel 13 (PBS), spent about 5 minutes there, then tuned to 2 (CBS). As of this writing, it has not yet looked at 80 or 14. As PBS and CBS are where I would expect TVGOS to be, I take it as a good sign.


Prior to updating the TVGOS settings, I had a full 8 day program listing from my analog connection. Host State was set to 0x80, HostID was 0x1, HostChan was 0:0-14. I'll check after 24 hours to see if any of that changes.


With any luck this will cover me until the end of the month, at which time it depends on what Cablevision does with the TVGOS signal. My email to Cablevision was listed as case solved by Customer Service as they say they directed it to the appropriate department. No real reply. Nothing from Rovi.


I have questions about the Artec CECB, but I'll post those in the appropriate thread.


Thanks again! I'll update as the situation progresses.



Update: still too soon to determine if new guide entries are downloading (i'm still at the 8 day limit), but during the next usual TVGOS download time, the box started at Ch 13 (PBS), stayed there a minute, went to CH 2 (CBS), stayed there a minute then went to Ch 80 (Cablevision Analog Guide channel) and settled there. This is normal behavior prior to changing to the SA4200.




SRM1964

 

[srm1964]

Update: As of Monday mid-morning (approx 48 hours since changing to the SA4200), host channel is now listed as "NONE" and the first pass of the 999 channel scan is in progress. The guide does not have updates listed for this coming Sunday (day 7) or Monday (day 8).


SRM1964

 

[srm1964]

Update: As of Friday, a host channel had not been found and the EH75 continued its channel scan in search of one.


I changed the configuration to Cable without box and Cable with a box. All other settings remained unchanged. Within 12 hours, it detected a host channel on 0:0-14 (the original analog host) and prompted me to select a new channel lineup (selected Cablevision Systems). 12 hours later, new listings had downloaded for days 1, 2, 5 and 8.


Now let's see what happens when the analog service is turned off in a week.

 

[srm1964]

Update: Today Cablevision pulled the plug on the analog signal. All analog stations have been replaced by a message stating that a digital cable box.


The Panasonic still has the host channel set to 0:0-14 and went through the motions of tuning to the appropriate TVGOS channels at the usual times, but did not actually download any listings today.