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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
To all RP-62 owners or tester,


I would like to know what your impression is of the progressive images on screen from video based (30 fps) animation and live action dvds versus film based (24fps) dvds animation and live action using the RP-62?


My question stems from doing numerous tests and comparisons with my new RP-62 and my old interlaced Pioneer 525 as displayed on my Pioneer 533 HDTV. I have found that with live action films and film animation (24fps), the RP-62 (progressive) sings, producing beautiful film like images with no scan lines visible. Love it. With video based animation the RP-62 displays a sharp picture, but there is a lot noticeable artifacting around text and various saturated colors. The picture is still clean, but it is a far cry from the film based stuff. In fact, I cannot even tell the difference between the interlaced output of my Pioneer 525 and the progressive output of my RP-62 when viewing video based dvds. Wether this is a testament to the scaler in the HDTV, or a sort coming of the RP-62, I do not know. I was hoping you could shed some light on this with your findings.


I have read that the DCDi chip in the RP-62 is meant for film deinterlacing. This may mean I might have to look elsewhere to get the kind of picture quality I wanted for video based material.


Thanks for any help you can give,


hipsterjedi
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I totally understand. I am just wondering if there is any "better" way to display video material on an HDTV. I realize "better" is subjective, so I relate this issue through the results I have seen on the RP-62. It is a great player for the price. But, I have heard of other players possibly doing video "better" (i.e. Kenwood dv-5700 that has the sage video enhancement chip in addition to the DCDi. This allows for some tweaking of the video quality.).


Of course the next step up would be to look into video proccessors, but that is another forum and I would like to solve this with the DVD player.


Thank you.


-hipsterjedi
 

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The Sage "enhancer" chip is basically a digital sharpness filter. It does make the image look sharper (whether video or film sourced), but it's not clear that making the image sharper is a good thing. I don't particularly like the effect, but I'm not everyone.


As far as video deinterlacing goes, there really isn't anything better out there than the Sage chip, that we've seen anyway. There are some interesting contenders, and some rumors of new things on the horizon, but right now for video deinterlacing, Sage is it.


If you want to see what DCDi does, there are several good demos, but the waving flag on the Video Essentials Montage of Images is a good one. The improvement is subtle, but once you get used to it, you'll start to really notice when it's not there.


And Stacey is correct in that DCDi affects both film and video sourced material, but it only kicks in when the chip goes into video mode. So on films, when the 3-2 pulldown signature is good and everything is working well DCDi is not doing anything. It's only on video material and sections of film that can't easily be identified as such that DCDi kicks in.


Don
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Thanks, Don. That helps explain a lot. I guess I will just have to live with the RP-62 and my nitpickiness until something better does come out.


-hipsterjedi
 

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Is your RP62 set for Video or Auto deinterlacing? I believe the Video mode was useless on the RP56 and does not benefit from DCDi. Bottom line, leave it set for Auto.
 

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Don,


What then is the difference in methodology that makes the Si504 deinterlacing not quite up to par with Sage FLI deinterlacing?


I ask because, not considering video material, I was under the impression that both IC's produced superb film based progressive results. As I remember, Shootout comments were biased slightly to the Si chip for "best" film based deinterlacing.
 

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Bad edits. After watching many, many hours of DSS, the Sage chip is quicker to jump into video mode avoiding deinterlacing artifacts than the Silicon Image is. AND when in video mode they have DCDi, which hides one of the dead give aways that you are in video mode, jaggies. It does not hide all jaggies, but many.


The Silicon Image is quicker to jump out of video mode.


This is all on film material.
 

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Thanks Stacey.


Silicon Image must be having it real rough right now, as I don't see their 504 being mentioned much in new DVD player platforms other than the two new Denons?
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally posted by Marc Alexander
Is your RP62 set for Video or Auto deinterlacing? I believe the Video mode was useless on the RP56 and does not benefit from DCDi. Bottom line, leave it set for Auto.
Thanks, Marc. I will look into this when I get home. From what I remember, I set the progressive mode of the player to "enable" in the menus. I do not recall seeing a setting for Video mode or Auto deinterlacing. However, there are a lot of menu selections on the RP-62 and I probably missed it.


I will update you with my findings.


-hipsterjedi
 

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I want to add Phil that the Sage has an issue or two that we don't like (Silicon Image and Genesis do better) and we will scream about it in the future as I am sure others will too. :) I only hope someone there will listen.
 

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Phil,


The basic difference is that the Silicon Image chip doesn't have DCDi or anything like it. They're both excellent motion-adaptive deinterlacers, but DCDi tips the balance for video deinterlacing.


I personally use a Silicon Image-based DVD player (and an iScan Pro), but I don't feel strongly that it's superior. They're both good chips. I would say, though, that if you watch a lot of video format stuff, and/or really odd stuff like Anime and so forth, I think the Sage is slightly better.


Don
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by hipsterjedi



Thanks, Marc. I will look into this when I get home. From what I remember, I set the progressive mode of the player to "enable" in the menus. I do not recall seeing a setting for Video mode or Auto deinterlacing. However, there are a lot of menu selections on the RP-62 and I probably missed it.


I will update you with my findings.


-hipsterjedi
I just picked up an rp62 yesterday and went through all the menus several times and didn't see anything related to Video mode or Auto deinterlacing. If someone knows where it is please let us know.


Skip
 

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Thanks Don.


As you and Stacey know I've been agonizing for way too long over what player to get that will equal or better the deinterlacing in my Pio Elite RPTV.


Since I've never owned a player I will not be very good at knowing what to look for quickly in subtle video performance so I can return one within dealer try-out times.


I'm really having a hard time with the RP91/Sage/DVDO choice. I was even rolling financial data over in my head last night wondering if I shouldn't quit messing around and pick up the Camelot MKII to end all this - but boy, there are so many places for the $$ to go these days.
 

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Phil,


I think that if you pick up a DMR-E30 (Panasonic recorder just about to hit the streets) that not only do you get the Sage doubler for watching DVD, but can also use it for external sources like VHS, DSS, Cable, etc.
 

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Mike,


Yeah, you may be right. I've been keeping my eye on recorders too for a Faroudja or DVDO powered one.


Will the E30 have the C-bug though, and can I switch on it a single set of component outputs between interlaced and progressive?
 

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Quote:
Will the E30 have the C-bug though
Should not, but might have the flicker bug for oversaturated reds. Hopefully within a couple of weeks we get some answers from our friends in Japan.


Quote:
can I switch on it a single set of component outputs between interlaced and progressive?
Definitely, but I'm still unsure if you will be able to from the remote.
 

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Thanks Mike.


Switching from the remote is not high priority. I can walk up to the front of the unit, but from the remote is best and I'll never forget how cool remote-on-the-fly switching was on the Rotel 1080 I demo'd.


I guess "VBR Recording" on the E30 means variable bit rate. Don't all new recorders do this and why is this important?
 

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Quote:
I guess "VBR Recording" on the E30 means variable bit rate. Don't all new recorders do this and why is this important?
I'm not sure if the Pioneer does on their current model.


VBR just gives more bits to frame groupings where there is lots of action, and less to more static imagry like talking heads and landscapes. In theory, if implemented properly, it improves picture quality by reducing motion artifacts.
 

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Phil, Camelot has no aspect ratio control. I see no reason to buy it over an RP56 (possibly RP62, etc.) for DVD-V playback.


The audio side work is all for CD enhancement.


Ok, there may be something out by xmas using a 2300, but only the shadow knows.
 
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