[cpc]

In my experience the Panasonic AE100 and L200 look very sharp using a 480p source through the VGA port. At 1.75x screen width away, I find that a simple defocus of the picture is adequate to eliminate screendoor and almost totally eliminate peak-a-boo vertical motion artifacts while remaining pleasingly sharp looking. I briefly saw an AE300 when I had it in my setup for a few days. I could have sworn it didn't look as sharp as the L200. I am not sure whether it was because of the smooth screen, the scaling from 480p to 540p or the combination of both, but I couldn't help thinking it didn't look as sharp as the L200.


Smooth Screen comparison questions:


1) On average, do you feel smooth screen creates a softer and less sharply focussed picture than a projector without smooth screen or do you feel smooth screen is just as sharp, or sharper?? For instance, has anyone actually compared the Panny 300 and Sanyo Z1, the Panny 500 and Sanyo Z2 and the AE700 vs Z3 in terms of sharpness?



2) When using an lcd projector without smooth screen, do most people feel that a simple defocus is enough to eliminate screen door?



3) Is smooth screen responsible for "peak-a-boo" vertical motion artifacts? I rarely see them on my flicker tweaked and defocussed L200, but sometimes they can be bothersome. When viewing a Sanyo Z1 I saw them alot until defocussing and then I didn't see them at all and yet the picture was sharp. I saw them on the AE300 but I didn't view an aweful lot of material.



4) Is it possible to locate the optical part inside the Panny 300, 500 and AE700 which is responsible for smooth screen? Can it be removed? Could we compare the work of smooth screen vs defocussing and perhaps choose to do without smooth screen?


When I viewed the AE300 (panny CV51 dvd player>component cables>VGA port>AE300) smooth screen looks like a defocus to me, but you can only get it so sharp and it doesn't seem to look as sharp as my defocussed L200.


Anyfeedback about comparing smooth screen with defocussing and whether smooth screen could be removed from the Panny's would be appreciated.

 

[trailergod]

the ae500 has a 1280x720 Pixels res, i'm using it via DVI from HTPC and it is very sharp.


The difference between a 500 and a Z2 depends on the viewing distance. If you look close to the screen of a Z2 you would see some pixel structure, with a panny 500 you wont see it.


Whatever difference there may be the 720p pixel res of these projector is high enough that you wont see the pixel structure



heres a picture of the smooth screen of the 500 compared with the Z2.


PT-AE500 pic is on top

 

[Fabbas]

Definitely no SDE.


The AE500 looks like it has horizontal lines running across it, was that the image?

 

[TheFerret]

This thread assumes that any panel alignment issue with an integer for the row and or column offset. What is the panels were fractionally out of alignment, would this not help hide the SDE entity some?

 

[csedaniel]

I am impressed. That is the first time that I have seen how effective the smooth screen is. No doubt smoothscreen is much better than just a defocus. I second Fabba's question of the horizontal lines........is that the peek-a-boo or something different? Looks like a scanline from a CRT.


Daniel

 

[TheFerret]

Well, with an object in horizintal motion the coloration of the object is moving only LR orRL and as such the row (or continuous section of a row) is constant. Someone suggested to me, though, that it could be looked-for by seating yourself close to the screen and standing up quickly. I have not tried this, yet, but will.

 

[rogo]

" What is the panels were fractionally out of alignment, would this not help hide the SDE entity some?"


To the extent that people have gotten projectors like this all the time due to factory misconvergence, I'd say generally not. It apparently makes defocusing a huge mess. And when sharply focused, the fringing is visible to many people.

 

[csedaniel]

Thanks Ferret. I see you were kind enough to respond to both questions in both threads . Can you specifically address motion blur/smearing. Are fast motion artifacts like blur and smearing(ie.. HDTV NFL) very noticeable on the Panasonic?


P.S. hopefully I will be able to see a Panasonic soon. Other LCDs bother me with screendoor.( Even from 2x width I can still detect a fine mesh.) And of course, DLP renders rainbow and dithering artifacts. If Panasonic handles motion well w/o artifacts, the smoothscreen seems promising.....


Daniel

 

[cpc]

1) My main concern is that I suspect that Panasonic projectors with smooth screen makes the image a little soft, vs a projector with equal resolution which has no smooth screen. I'm fully aware of what smooth screen does and that it reduces screen door, and that 720p projectors have less visible pixels, and even less screen door vs lower resolution.


2) I also dislike peak-a-boo vertical motion artifacts which I suspect smooth screen amplifies.


3) Can smooth screen be removed from a Panny projector?


Any comments on these issues?

 

[TheFerret]

Daniel, when I became aware of the peek-a-boo scan-lines it was easy to see them if and when I wanted to be aware of them. Unfortunately, I did not watch enough material to conclude how rampant the cnodition was. Also, someone suggested that a slight defocus, which is common to rid SDE, can be used for this, too.

 

[cpc]

I suspect that if you have a panny with smooth screen and you slightly defocus to reduce peak-a-boo's, this will result in a softer picture faster than a pj without smooth screen, if the panny isn't already soft as it is.

 

[cpc]

Anyone with comments?

 

[OleM]

Quote:

Originally posted by cpc I'm fully aware of what smooth screen does and that it reduces screen door, and that 720p projectors have less visible pixels, and even less screen door vs lower resolution.

Can you please explain to someone who doesn't fully understand the technology behind smooth screen? What is it? How is the smoothing done? How does it work?

 

[TheFerret]

I am also curious what Panasonic's Smooth Screen technology is. Its not the panels, because they are made by Epson and used as OEM panels in other projectors--so nothing significant about to Panasonic. Is it the processing, optics (pre/post panels), etc. ?

 

[cpc]

I would also like this explained so I could determine where the parts are inside the unit.


I suspect that smooth screen is a small lens or 3 lens, one for each lcd panel, which performs an optical adjustment on the projected light. For all intents and purposes, I would guess its as though Panasonic uses an IMX type lens or lens in its projector. Search the net for IMX lens and you'll see what I mean. I am still skeptical of smooth screen because with higher resolution projectors, not only is a slight defocus all that is necessary to reduce screen door to un-noticable levels, but it also allows the reduction of peak-a-boo's.


Could someone give us the skinny on the optical parts responsible for Panasonic's smooth screen technology?

 

[TheFerret]

 Page #2, bottom right.

 

[sfb]

I know Smoothscreen is controversial and some don't like it, but the market seems to place a premium on it as shown by the higher prices the L300U commanded versus the Z1. If it is a desirable feature, why haven't other PJ manufacturers employed it? Patent issues? Usually a manufacturer will advertise that a new technology is patented, but I have never seen Panasonic claim this.

 

[TheFerret]

What is there to patent? Did they develop the double-refraction crystal before anyone else? I doubt it. And even if they did and forgot to issue a patent then wouldn't someone else have caught onto this? I am perfectly comfortable believing that Sony, NEC, and other core developers pony the competition's products and try to reverse engineer for similar benefits.


Also, since the double-refactive optics is well outside of projectors as well, I doubt they have a leg to stand on--or they are completely stupid when it comes to patent-protecting themselves. BTW, here is an example of double-refraction. I wonder why others have not considered employing it.

 

[sfb]

Quote:

What is there to patent? Did they develop the double-refraction crystal before anyone else? I doubt it. And even if they did and forgot to issue a patent then wouldn't someone else have caught onto this? I am perfectly comfortable believing that Sony, NEC, and other core developers pony the competition's products and try to reverse engineer for similar benefits.

I agree that there doesn't appear to be anything to patent. Cost doesn't appear to be an issue either since the Panasonics are among the cheapest PJs on the market.


It seems like the manufacturers have spent most of their efforts to improving contrast, which many would argue is LCDs biggest weakness, and brightness, which most consumers value highly.


Screen door seems less of a priority to the market (plasma tvs have very noticeable screen door and yet command premium prices due to their other attributes.) However, Epson has mentioned the optimization of their 720 D5 chip's circuitry to increase the aperture ratio.