AVS Forum banner
1 - 20 of 22 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
16,749 Posts
I am not surprised that the plasma flickers in 96Hz mode when in 3D since that would be 48fps per eye instead of 60fps per eye achieved in 120Hz mode.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,879 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by walford /forum/post/18288340


I am not surprised that the plasma flickers in 94Hz mode when in 3D since that would be 48fps per eye instead of 60fps per eye achieved in 120Hz mode.

As per the review it appears you can have 3D in 120 Hz mode to avoid flicker.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,965 Posts
Here's one thing I haven't heard anyone comment about in the Panasonic demo material - edge enhancement/artificial sharpening is probably more detrimental to the 3D viewing experience than it is to the 2D one. I hate edge enhancement as much as the next guy in regular 2D discs, but one sure fire way of pulling me out of the Panasonic 3D demo disc is to see edge enhancement. The clips of Rome often have bright halos around them - not horrible, but the negative effect is that much more exaggerated because of the 3D. The sense of reality that such material conveys is pretty easily destroyed (for me, anyway) by seeing that bright fringe around the edges of things. It's another reason that the Grand Canyon and Canadian wilderness footage looks so good. There's virtually no fringing in those shots.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
710 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joseph Clark /forum/post/18405943


Here's one thing I haven't heard anyone comment about in the Panasonic demo material - edge enhancement/artificial sharpening is probably more detrimental to the 3D viewing experience than it is to the 2D one. I hate edge enhancement as much as the next guy in regular 2D discs, but one sure fire way of pulling me out of the Panasonic 3D demo disc is to see edge enhancement. The clips of Rome often have bright halos around them - not horrible, but the negative effect is that much more exaggerated because of the 3D. The sense of reality that such material conveys is pretty easily destroyed (for me, anyway) by seeing that bright fringe around the edges of things. It's another reason that the Grand Canyon and Canadian wilderness footage looks so good. There's virtually no fringing in those shots.

With regard to the Panasonic 3D Demo I'm really curious if the scenes shot in New Zealand have been deleted from the 3D DVD that comes with the 3D Blu-Ray player in the box. I see in the review by blu-ray.com that none of the New Zealand clips are referenced. As I recall the scenes in New Zealand include a lengthy beach volleyball game and a bike race coming down a mountain road.


(Post note: I see in the comments to the blu-ray.com review that there are two different demos with the one that includes the above referenced scenes from New Zealand being intended for the in store demo though some sold players have had it included. Curious to hear from anyone here as to whether your Panasonic 3D DVD Player included the "store demo" that has the New Zealand scenes and is titled, "Enjoying the Great Outdoors.")
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,253 Posts
Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Question:


Is there any EE on the BD DISTRICT 9?


The reason why I ask - that is a movie shot with RED (4K) digital cameras.


They don't use 35mm film cameras to shoot 3D anymore. They haven't for quite some time, except of course IMAX 3D


Don't they use EE for movies shot on film?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,965 Posts
I don't know where the edge enhancement on those clips came from. Could have been the camera, or it could have been done in post to add some punch to a soft image. It got me thinking about the potential for compression artifacts in satellite and cable broadcasts to inflict some serious damage on the look of 3D. We know how all the providers like to squeeze every last bit out of the signal so they can crowd more channels into a finite space. Softness, noise, edge enhancement and compression blocking, I fear, are going to detract dramatically from the 3D effect. (That's why I look forward most to 3D Blu-ray discs and not satellite.) The shots from the Grand Canyon on that Panasonic demo reel look amazingly realistic. I kept getting closer and closer to the screen, inching the demo stand with the glasses forward as much as I could. It couldn't have been more than 3 or 4 feet from the plasma when I finished watching - and I was standing in front of it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,965 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18407412


Question:


Is there any EE on the BD DISTRICT 9?


The reason why I ask - that is a movie shot with RED (4K) digital cameras.


They don't use 35mm film cameras to shoot 3D anymore. They haven't for quite some time, except of course IMAX 3D

Don't they use EE for movies shot on film?

Edge enhancement is often added by the set itself, and can be defeated in most TVs these days. Good films don't add EE in the editing phase, unless they're trying to correct for a general lack of sharpness. IMO, EE is almost never a good thing. IIRC, VHS used a primitive form of edge enhancement which they called VHS HQ. Just like today, it was used to try to clean up a bad image. It doesn't work any better today than it did 25 years ago. But some things just won't die.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts
Do the Panny 3D plasmas support any form of 2D -> 3D conversion like the Samsung 3D TVs? I've not been able to find any documentation about this feature (leading me to think that the answer is "NO").


Given the dearth of native 3D content and the fact that it will probably be months (or longer) before the quantity starts to ramp up, some form of 2D -> 3D support would seem critical to me in order to consider a purchase. I know the effect would be hit or miss based on the source and would never look as good as true 3D but it would still be a fairly necessary enticement for some of us potential early adopters.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,253 Posts
Discussion Starter · #12 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP /forum/post/18410808


Do the Panny 3D plasmas support any form of 2D -> 3D conversion like the Samsung 3D TVs? I've not been able to find any documentation about this feature (leading me to think that the answer is "NO").


Given the dearth of native 3D content and the fact that it will probably be months (or longer) before the quantity starts to ramp up, some form of 2D -> 3D support would seem critical to me in order to consider a purchase. I know the effect would be hit or miss based on the source and would never look as good as true 3D but it would still be a fairly necessary enticement for some of us potential early adopters.

No - Panasonic 3DTVs do not have a 2D to 3D conversion feature.


My opinion on this feature - I would rather watch no 3D and wait for the real 3D content than watch badly done 3D anytime I wanted to.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,649 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18410866


No - Panasonic 3DTVs do not have a 2D to 3D conversion feature.


My opinion on this feature - I would rather watch no 3D and wait for the real 3D content than watch badly done 3D anytime I wanted to.

That's what I thought; thanks for confirming.


Despite the fact that the Panny 3D demo actually made me a little ill (I'll chalk it up to a poor setup) I was interested in the set but the absence of this feature is a complete dealbreaker for me. Couple that with the lack of native 3D content, repeated occurrences of Crosstalk issues with LCD sets and I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I'll probably sit this generation out and see what we get next year.


As to the quality of 2D to 3D conversion, I've gotten mixed messages. Some folks consider it a waste while others seem to have gotten some mileage out of it, especially with gaming (something that would apply to me). I'm sure it depends on the material being fed to the TV to some degree and, like everything else in life, personal taste and preference will play a big role as well. Ideally I'd like to see it in action for myself but so far I've been unable to get a Best Buy employee to throw in a 2D BluRay or plug in a 360.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,253 Posts
Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP /forum/post/18410944


That's what I thought; thanks for confirming.


Despite the fact that the Panny 3D demo actually made me a little ill (I'll chalk it up to a poor setup) I was interested in the set but the absence of this feature is a complete dealbreaker for me. Couple that with the lack of native 3D content, repeated occurrences of Crosstalk issues with LCD sets and I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I'll probably sit this generation out and see what we get next year.


As to the quality of 2D to 3D conversion, I've gotten mixed messages. Some folks consider it a waste while others seem to have gotten some mileage out of it, especially with gaming (something that would apply to me). I'm sure it depends on the material being fed to the TV to some degree and, like everything else in life, personal taste and preference will play a big role as well. Ideally I'd like to see it in action for myself but so far I've been unable to get a Best Buy employee to throw in a 2D BluRay or plug in a 360.

I'm not a gamer so that would not be of interest to me. Probably would work better on games than other 2D content like movies or TV programming.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,965 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP /forum/post/18410944


That's what I thought; thanks for confirming.


Despite the fact that the Panny 3D demo actually made me a little ill (I'll chalk it up to a poor setup) I was interested in the set but the absence of this feature is a complete dealbreaker for me. Couple that with the lack of native 3D content, repeated occurrences of Crosstalk issues with LCD sets and I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I'll probably sit this generation out and see what we get next year.


As to the quality of 2D to 3D conversion, I've gotten mixed messages. Some folks consider it a waste while others seem to have gotten some mileage out of it, especially with gaming (something that would apply to me). I'm sure it depends on the material being fed to the TV to some degree and, like everything else in life, personal taste and preference will play a big role as well. Ideally I'd like to see it in action for myself but so far I've been unable to get a Best Buy employee to throw in a 2D BluRay or plug in a 360.

I took some discs of my own to a Best Buy and they let me play them to see what the 2D to 3D conversion looked like. I chose 4 different types of Blu-ray content, from action to a filmed stage play. I found the 3D effect all over the place, but in general I'd say it's not worth a whole lot for most films.


Take some of your favorite discs to Best Buy and try them out. Any given manager might say no, of course, but I doubt that. They want to sell the TVs, and the salesmen like watching the demos themselves (at least they do in my local Best Buy's). When it comes to 3D, I'm not taking anyone's word for how things look or how well they work. I have to see for myself.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
585 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18411084


I'm not a gamer so that would not be of interest to me. Probably would work better on games than other 2D content like movies or TV programming.

I'm not a gamer either, but it's my understanding that many games' rendering engines can generate a true stereoscopic viewport. If so, wouldn't it be preferable to play a game whose environment was accurately rendered in 3D by the game engine itself rather than one where the environment was approximated by an external converter that has no specific knowledge of the games' internal geometry?
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,253 Posts
Discussion Starter · #17 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN /forum/post/18411215


I'm not a gamer either, but it's my understanding that many games' rendering engines can generate a true stereoscopic viewport. If so, wouldn't it be preferable to play a game whose environment was accurately rendered in 3D by the game engine itself rather than one where the environment was approximated by an external converter that has no specific knowledge of the games' internal geometry?

That would make sense. But how many games can do that? I watch my son play games now and then and I see from that experience, distinct foreground and background views. Many times, only the foreground is in motion, the background stays stationary. That would probably result in better 2D to 3D conversion based on what little I know about the process.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
585 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lee Stewart /forum/post/18411327


That would make sense. But how many games can do that? I watch my son play games now and then and I see from that experience, distinct foreground and background views. Many times, only the foreground is in motion, the background stays stationary. That would probably result in better 2D to 3D conversion based on what little I know about the process.

Again, I am not a gamer, but...
Here is a list of games supported by the nVidia 3D Vision system. I am assuming most or all can be rendered with "true" stereoscopic viewports.

Edit: It looks like the games are grouped by the quality of the 3D capabilities of the game. Pretty cool.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
19,253 Posts
Discussion Starter · #19 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesN /forum/post/18411345


Again, I am not a gamer, but...
Here is a list of games supported by the nVidia 3D Vision system. I am assuming most or all can be rendered with "true" stereoscopic viewports.

Edit: It looks like the games are grouped by the quality of the 3D capabilities of the game. Pretty cool.
- I was talking about using an Xbox 360 or a PS3.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,540 Posts

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyDP /forum/post/18410944


... the absence of this feature is a complete dealbreaker for me. Couple that with the lack of native 3D content, repeated occurrences of Crosstalk issues with LCD sets and I'm quickly coming to the conclusion that I'll probably sit this generation out and see what we get next year.

Yes, I also have to have 2D>3D, and the reports of LCD ghosting are worrisome. But we do have some Samsung plasmas coming out in a couple of days ...
 
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Top