[jbrady3324]

Please only post relevant information in this thread. No arguing about whether this thread should exist or not.


The 11g/12g models have their own thread and the Panasonic 2010 thread is being flooded with posts about this is issue so I decided to create a new thread.

This thread is designed to cover the rising voltage/black level issues with 2010 Panasonic Plasma TVs. This includes speculation, updated news, tests and reports, reviews, ect. If anything deserves to be in post #1, please PM and I will add it. It would be great to gather reports and tests for the 1st post as well as reviews.


The first batch of 13g Panasonics are due out this month.


Panasonic claims this is by design in their previous models ( 11g/12g are known to have this 'design' ). Check out the articles below for more info

http://news.cnet.com/8301-17938_105-10449939-1.html

http://www.engadget.com/2010/02/10/p...-plasma-hdtvs/


The black level "adjustment" is still part of the 2010 series according to Panasonic. With the implementation of a more gradual voltage increase, will this lead to dimmer whites? Will the black levels slowly become lighter?


We know Panasonic has refused to provide a solution to the black level issues in their 2009 models, so should we expect the same behavior from Panasonic if this issue occurs with the 2010 models?


Please feel free to speculate and report any findings, testings, ect.

 

[Steve S]

I think it would behoove us to start a thread regarding buzzing on upcoming Samsungs while we're at it!

 

[Gov]

Really, why another thread on this already? It has been beaten to death. Besides, we already know Panny is not changing anything in this regard for the 13G panels except it will be administered in small doses

 

[dlplover]

Hold on, I think I'll start a thread "Pioneer Kuro 15G (2014) 3-D Coherence Issue Thread"


oh wait, that's right. You can't have an issue with a product that isn't even out yet and that may never be an issue (in my case because the product doesn't exist).

 

[Pedaler]

Stop all the madness!

 

[easy_13]

This board has lost it's damn mind.

 

[greenland]

Since Panasonic has stated that their 2010 Panels will experience a Progressive Elevation of MLL(Minimum Luminance Level) as the usage hours climb, then it makes sense to have a thread that keeps track of the situation from the outset.


I bet that a lot of people wish now, that they had been alerted early last year, to the fact that the 2009 models were programmed to progressively diminish their black levels.


I wish people would stop trying to squelch threads that are designed to keep people up to date on the subject. Lord knows, Panasonic never bothered to let people know about it.


If you don't want to read about it, then stop clicking on the thread.

 

[curly21029]



Quote:
Originally Posted by greenland /forum/post/18114475


I bet that a lot of people wish now, that they had been alerted early last year, to the fact that the 2009 models were programmed to progressively diminish their black levels.

I resemble that remark.

The fact remains that Panasonic has stated that these changes will be "normal" for their 2010 plasmas. I think most would agree: degraded contrast = bad. There's nothing wrong with discussing an issue that Panasonic themselves claim will plague their next generation of plasmas.


And yes, this talk deserves to stay in the core "2010 Panasonic Plasmas" thread. Let it serve as a constant "buyer beware" for those who are persistently loyal to a company that has recently proven that they are not loyal to their customers.

 

[Nascar Dog]

The 2010 G and V series have a new panel (Some Kuro tech?) with "5,000,000:1 native contrast"

so maybe the blacks will be much better and not rise.


We will just have to wait and see...

 

[greenland]



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nascar Dog /forum/post/18115568


The 2010 G and V series have a new panel (Some Kuro tech?) with "5,000,000:1 native contrast"

so maybe the blacks will be much better and not rise.


We will just have to wait and see...

They will rise. Panasonic told Cnet that they will. How bad it will look, as they Progressively rise, is what remains to be seen. That is why this thread will be very helpful, because new owners, especially those who measure the levels, will be able to keep us all informed on what they are finding out.

 

[Prof.Who]

Well, I do plan on getting a G25 shortly after they are available as of now. If there are any members in the area with a good meter, I would be happy to get my set tested. I live in Corpus Christi, TX.

 

[scorpio_87]

The 11g models apparently have the same exact problem, yet nobody ever brought it up back then. So I'm wondering, since all plasmas do this periodic voltage increase, has anyone ever done long term black level measurements on Pioneer, Samsung, or LG plasmas to see if they also see an increase in black level?

 

[mmoh00]



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 /forum/post/18115886


The 11g models apparently have the same exact problem, yet nobody ever brought it up back then. So I'm wondering, since all plasmas do this periodic voltage increase, has anyone ever done long term black level measurements on Pioneer, Samsung, or LG plasmas to see if they also see an increase in black level?

Go to the 11G/12G black level thread to find D-nice's answer today. He said Pioneers and Samsungs dont have this issue.

 

[scorpio_87]



Quote:
Originally Posted by mmoh00 /forum/post/18115927


Go to the 11G/12G black level thread to find D-nice's answer today. He said Pioneers and Samsungs dont have this issue.

Well that's depressing. Hopefully the blacks won't rise that much. If they start at something like .003-.004fL, but don't rise over .010fL over the course of a few years, I think I'd be fine with that.

 

[mmoh00]



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 /forum/post/18116016


Well that's depressing. Hopefully the blacks won't rise that much. If they start at something like .003-.004fL, but don't rise over .010fL over the course of a few years, I think I'd be fine with that.

I suspect most will agree with you if '10 models really stay below 0.010 ftL. But I wouldn't put much hope on it. I believe Panasonic would have mentioned that in their Cnet announcement if the settling level for '10 is expected to be so much better than '09. People who want to get an idea of what the settling level (with or without big spikes) would be like might want to follow Bdemers' chart here. It could use more data points (and it will as time goes) and standard disclaimer about uncontrolled/unscientific data collection applies.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...8#post18098818


At this point, if a friend of mine asks me about '10 Panny purchase, I'd tell him to buy it only if he would be okay with ~0.025 ftL MLL. If it settles at lower level, great. If not, he and I wouldn't feel bad.

 

[AVJunkie2010]



Quote:
Originally Posted by scorpio_87 /forum/post/18116016


Well that's depressing. Hopefully the blacks won't rise that much. If they start at something like .003-.004fL, but don't rise over .010fL over the course of a few years, I think I'd be fine with that.

I think the mind has convinced the eyes of many of these posters that the effect is much more dramatic than what it really is. Heck I've already read a few posts from owners that have claimed there black levels have returned to their original which defies what Panasonic says will happen. To me the effect is likely minimal but the mind has convinced them that it's dramatic. Real world measurements on accurate equipment would be more telling.

 

[greenland]



Quote:
Originally Posted by AVJunkie2010 /forum/post/18116214


I think the mind has convinced the eyes of many of these posters that the effect is much more dramatic than what it really is. Heck I've already read a few posts from owners that have claimed there black levels have returned to their original which defies what Panasonic says will happen. To me the effect is likely minimal but the mind has convinced them that it's dramatic. Real world measurements on accurate equipment would be more telling.

O, they will be measured, over and over, as the hours add up. Now that the cat is out of the bag, there will be lots of investigations taking place. Cnet has already start logging hours on a couple of the 2009 models, since the news broke, and they are going to measure the changes as the hours add up.


You can bet on it, that they, and others, will do the same with some of the 2010 panels. No one is just going to take Panasonic's word for it, that they have dialed back the levels of Progressive MLL elevations. They might just be trying to avoid leveling with potential customers, and driving them off with the truth.

 

[nick_danger]

Thanks for starting this thread, I had no idea Pannies had this issue! It sounds like a minor issue, but all the same, it's better to know. I ultimately want a Kuro anyway, but I was excited for a super-thin Panny. Now I shall wait a bit longer.

 

[ehgz1]

In the words of the immortal Susan Powter - STOP THE INSANITY!

 

[Rpresner]

just by a 58/65 v series and you should be fine with the black levels...From what I see they seem to not be affected. Now we know why bigger is better.