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Discussion Starter #1
I might have an opportunity to sell my 6th gen panny for a reasonable amount and then purchase a new 8th gen without much additional cost.


Can anyone tell me for sure that there a significant difference in the PQ between the two?


Thanks.
 

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Well, there's two years less wear and tear on it, at minimum.


Edit: Someone will tell me if I'm wrong, but I believe that from the 6th to the 7th generation, halflife of the glass went from 30,000 to 60,000 hours.
 

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It's doubtful half-life actually changed, but they may be using better phosphors, which would translate into longer life. My belief is that they went to the 60,000 estimate to combat LCD claims of 30,000-60,000 hours of life.


Can't the 8th gen glass display more colors? Or was it the processor that changed?
 

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If it matters to you, the 8 supports HDMI cards were the 6 only supports DVI
 

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the PQ betwen 6th and 8th is much improved, 1 million colors compared to 16, shades of grey trippled, when you look at background scenes, esp underwater or clouds you dont get rings around the gradients of color as much

8th gen is much more vibrate in color
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud-man
the PQ betwen 6th and 8th is much improved, 1 million colors compared to 16, shades of grey trippled, when you look at background scenes, esp underwater or clouds you dont get rings around the gradients of color as much

8th gen is much more vibrate in color
Are you basing this on personal experience? If so, did you have the same set up with both units other than the plasma? Also were they both HD or both ED versions?


thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Quote:
Originally Posted by Techniwizard
If it matters to you, the 8 supports HDMI cards were the 6 only supports DVI
Yeah I knew that. I'm not sure I'm so excited about HDMI after some recent experiences I've had with the new HDMI Mosquito. As someone else put it, "HMDI is not ready for prime time." I suppose it will be some day but not sure when.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D
Yeah I knew that. I'm not sure I'm so excited about HDMI after some recent experiences I've had with the new HDMI Mosquito. As someone else put it, "HMDI is not ready for prime time." I suppose it will be some day but not sure when.
i dont know if this is true about 6th gen models, but 8th gen models achieve 4096 levels of gradation when hdmi or dvi is used. if not used you only get 2048 levels.
 

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The 16 million color number is incorrect - current Panny glass does over 8 billion colors, according to the website.


2,048 gradiations over three primary colors equals over 8.6 billion unique colors.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Quote:
Originally Posted by tdavis21484
The 16 million color number is incorrect - current Panny glass does over 8 billion colors, according to the website.


2,048 gradiations over three primary colors equals over 8.6 billion unique colors.
Yes Panny advertises that the 7th/8th gen get much higher gradations than the 6th which I imagine should, among other things, give better detail in dark scenes. I wondered, however, if anyone could verify this from first hand experience with both a 6th and 7th or 8th gen.
 

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There's no way I could do a side-by-side of a 6gen vs 8gen Panny, but based on having "tested" them over the years my impression is the 8gen panny's are a distinct improvement. The 8gen seem more vibrant, with smoother image processing (at least with DVDs), better shadow detail, less noise in dark areas and a sharper, tighter overall image (which is perhaps due to the new sub-pixel controller).


In fact, after years of comparing DVD performance on the Pioneer and Panasonic plasmas, this is the first time the Panasonic has appeared to me even slightly sharper than the Pioneer in side-by-side viewing. Until now the Pioneer always had the edge.
 

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I compared the 6th, 7th gen, and 8th gen Panasonic panels recently on a 2 week tour of shops. I can clearly see a difference between the 6th gen panels and the 7th & 8th gen, but then owning a Pioneer 3rd gen panel, I have been closesly looking at black levels very hard on all panels.


Owning a Pioneer 3rd gen panel, the colors on the pioneer are very good but the true blacks are not there which led me to research the panny 8th gen heavily.


I am a very big sci fi material buff, and so constantly watch scenes with darks, blacks, and graphics.


I can say without a doubt that the ability to get true blacks on the 8th gen panny is the best I have seen. I am told the 7th gen almost had the true blacks fixed but then Pan had issues with the greys once they got the blacks on 7th gen panels right.


The pioneer I have has issues with its blacks and greys so, that, among other things led me to shop for a new panel.


I think either the latest gen Panny or the VERY latest Pioneer gen/series will do any purchaser just fine. I personally would not buy a Fujitsu if you paid me, I read somewhere about where ALIS only utilizes 50% pixels at some point in its display technology. While it may mean a sharper picture of what is does display that suggests some loss of detail whether noticeable or not in the image.


I did see a Fujitsu in the showrooms and it looked as good as on the surface as the Pioneer's, but it was never in the same showrooms as the Panny's for a direct comparison. However, the Fujitsu's were always in a room by themselves in the shops I visited so I could not resolve this question I have about their level of detail(or loss thereof) in the image quality.


I think for the clearest, sharpest picture, after 2 weeks of visiting many showrooms the Panny is the winner. The very newest Pioneers a close second. I do not think anyone would be unhappy with the Pioneer, the cost on the Pio panels is 300-400$ minimum higher usually than Pan, and the Pio expansion cards are much more expensive than the Panasonics and the Pioneer panels use different timings and resolutions also unless that has changed. I literally just paid half of msrp for 2 Pan exp cards and the stand.


A caveat here, is that I can only compare the units I saw based on how most of them were set up with source feeds and a few dvd's I was able to try out I brought with me.


This very latest NEC is also supposed to be a good box but I can't find a single one anywhere to see, though every dealer I contacted is sold out of the NECs as well.


I am just unwilling to spend cash to upgrade from my Pioneer to an uncertain/unkown like the NEC since I can't see it and it has no track record yet.


Its a very good time for the consumer though, compared to when I got my Pio panel 2.5 years ago, prices are about halved and features and quality up~
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D
Yes Panny advertises that the 7th/8th gen get much higher gradations than the 6th which I imagine should, among other things, give better detail in dark scenes. I wondered, however, if anyone could verify this from first hand experience with both a 6th and 7th or 8th gen.
So you would rather hear from an iFriend than the manufacturer's technical documentation?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack D
Are you basing this on personal experience? If so, did you have the same set up with both units other than the plasma? Also were they both HD or both ED versions?


thanks.
I owned both a PA25 6th gen and now a PM50 8th gen had them hooked up side by side and you could see night and day a better picture, Costco's had both side by side at there stores a month ago, PA is now gone in my area stores,it's only when you can see the diffrence you can appreciate the difference, otherwise a 6th gen with a good hd feed look great too, except luminence around clouds..etc
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Quote:
Originally Posted by tangfoot
So you would rather hear from an iFriend than the manufacturer's technical documentation?
Everything with its appropriate grain of salt. ;)


LGs are advertising contrast ratios of 10000/1 and I wouldn't get near one. I think it's well known that even the pannys don't produce anything near the advertised 4 or 3k/1 CRs even though they are generally thought to have the best CRs on the market. Yes the 4096 colors and double the gradations sounds great on paper but if the HDMI implementation is crappy and doesn't work because of HDCP issues with other devices, what good is it?


I know that Panny's DVI blade was not well implemented which results in a lot of noise in the lower IRE because I have one and have struggled with the problem for a year. I now use the RGBHV input and have much better PQ on my 6th gen (a lot of the improvement, however, has to do with the addition of an external VP).


On the other hand, user descriptions of PQ are fraught with problems as well. Everyone sees things slightly differently. And the more knowledgeable will see problems that others won't. Since I got into this I go crazy over certain artifacts while my wife will sit there and not even notice. Also it is devilishly hard to do real comparisons since most of us don't have the luxury of being able to take several panels home and compare them under controlled conditions.


So life's difficult. :D
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZZtop
I personally would not buy a Fujitsu if you paid me, I read somewhere about where ALIS only utilizes 50% pixels at some point in its display technology. While it may mean a sharper picture of what is does display that suggests some loss of detail whether noticeable or not in the image.
Only the 42" Fujitsu HD panel use the ALIS panel. The ALIS panel is the 1024 x 1024. Sony also used to use this. It is an interlaced panel instead of the normal progressive. Next year I believe they are changing that to using the Panasonic panel, which a lot of people are excited about having that extra black level. I have seen a Fujitsu 42" HD 40 series in the same room as a 500u panny. I watched some programs with Directv, and that was the first time I noticed the difference in the processing inside.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgnakster
Only the 42" Fujitsu HD panel use the ALIS panel. The ALIS panel is the 1024 x 1024. Sony also used to use this. It is an interlaced panel instead of the normal progressive. Next year I believe they are changing that to using the Panasonic panel, which a lot of people are excited about having that extra black level. I have seen a Fujitsu 42" HD 40 series in the same room as a 500u panny. I watched some programs with Directv, and that was the first time I noticed the difference in the processing inside.
I thought Fujitsu and Hitachi built their panels together? Did hear a rumor that Hitachi bought out Fujitsu's share in that operation though...anyone know if that's true?
 

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Jack D,


I do not see any additional noise on the HDMI or DVI compared to the component inputs. From what I have read, HDMI problems have been attributed to some set-top boxes.


I have a 657UY and If I could upgrade to an 8 for very little outlay, I would do it. Why not? Worst case, you still use the analog input :)


-- Rich
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bud-man
I owned both a PA25 6th gen and now a PM50 8th gen had them hooked up side by side and you could see night and day a better picture, Costco's had both side by side at there stores a month ago, PA is now gone in my area stores,it's only when you can see the diffrence you can appreciate the difference, otherwise a 6th gen with a good hd feed look great too, except luminence around clouds..etc
My experience closely mirrors Bud-man's. I owned an ED PD25 6th gen Panny and now own a PX500 8th gen Panny. The picture is notably better on a number of fronts:

1. Much less false contouring with greater color palette

2. Much better shadow detail - On 6th gen people's black clothes lacked detail, not so on my 8th.

3. As Rich said, the picture on the 8th is notably sharper.

4. Better SD PQ, mostly due to richer colors, but also slightly less noise.
 
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