Panny XR70 or Pioneer 1014TX?

I think you listed the + and minus yourself


No doubt the panny will have the better sound, if you can live with 6.1 a good option.


If DVD-A interests you then the HDMI + Full Digital Panny will pull ahead of the Pio in leaps and bounds for Sound quality one would guess (as digital input is where the pannys truely shine, with some others on audiocircle testing some rare 24/96 DAD (or DCD or something) discs with an XR45 stating it sounding better than any SACD heard on other gear.

In the old days, we used to wait until a product was actually released before assessing its merits / performance....


The Panasonic should be very nice for DVD-A, though.

yes true but XR45 "based" judgement (unless they have gone backwards)


and i did say "one would guess"...... again based on welll read above


Will certainly be interesting once its out HDMI+DVD-A ...... then "mods" like for the 45.

Can't speak to the XR70 because no one has ever heard one. I can speak to the 1014 TX, though. It has the "smooth" sound Pioneer is known for, plus, I would bet that it will have more power reserves for dynamic peaks.


Add to that, the MCACC auto speaker set up and EQ, it would be hard to go wrong. Plus, if you add a universal DVD player (like the 578-A), it will have all the connections (with the exception of i-link) to play DVD-A and SACD.


If you have an HDMI/DVI connector on your projector, I'd run the DVD or STB connection directly to the projector as opposed to running it through the AVR so you can get the shortest signal path.


As you mentioned, 1014 allows 7.1 channels, too.

The "point" of running the HDMI through the recievers it to "extract" the audio component (be it DVD-A, CD, DVD (DD/DTS) etc)


As HDMI is a digital signal which im pretty sure is also "packetized" there should be no issues with the extra (what 1 or 2m) going via the reciever.


I mean people run 10+m to their PJ's, i have a 10m VGA and no issues, VGA is analogue medium also so subject to more problems.

Quote:
I would be really surprised if a meaningful percentage of the population can reliably tell the sound quality of the two amps apart, in a rigorous test.

I would take the 1014 for the (presumed) extra power and the full 7.1 set-up. DPL IIx isn't really firing on all cylinders unless you are set up in 7.1

To my knowledge, there aren't any HDMI enabled DVD players, CD players or STBs. I haven't even heard of any coming to market. Passing full digital audio is still the sole province of digi coax or toslink connections. Or, firewire, if you throw in DVD-A and SACD. There's still the option of using analog connections for DVD-A and SACD.


For the foreseeable future, HDMI is still a digi video only connection for all intents and purposes....just like DVI.


Personally, I'd put my firewire enabled DVD player's sound quality against anything you can get currently off the audio/video shelf, regardless of format (DVD-A, SACD, DVD, CD).


Panasonic is firmly entrenched in the "DVD-A" format with no mention of digital support to SACD. Unfortunately for them, SACD makes up at least 50% of the discrete multi-channel music market.

im pretty sure most of the main manufacturers have HDMI DVD players.


Denon, Pioneer, Pansonic, Arcam, ......... etc


HDMI transfer of DVD-A is already accepted. SACD of such..... well that does involve Fony.... im pretty sure its still not "allowed" over HDMI. If Panasonic is "entrentched" on way and Panasonic the other........ Perhaps Panasonic has made the "right way" choice........ i mean Fony in all its wisdom seems to like placing further restrictions on SACD than DVD-A

(ie not available for PC's, no HDMI transfer (pretty sure)) etc.

Spoonfed,


Many manufacturers have HDMI on their players, but from what I understand, most don't yet support DVD Audio (or even DD5.1?) with it. The upcoming Panasonic DVD player is supposed to be one of the first to do that.

As of this very second, there aren't any players on the market that pass audio through HDMI.


i-link is still the only way to digitally send all signals, whether they be DVD-A or SACD. Panasonic only supports DVD-A.


Aside from H/K's digi AVRs (1005-2005) and some much higher priced digi amp only manufacturers, headroom is an issue.


From personal experience, unless you have very efficient speakers and/or a small room, digital amps don't have the headroom that's beefy enough to deal with some of the peaks DVD movies or multi-channel music disks hit.

Graphic,


This is not directed towards you as I am aware of your experiences with digi amps.


I do agree with Spoon. I like the HK digi amps but do not feel their power was any greater and did not feel the SQ was really much different. I have the XR50 and know it was far better that my Pioneer "Elite" VSX-41. It was also better than my Yamaha HTR-5590. I did really like the Yamaha but the Panny has 82 watts per channel with 5 driven. How many other analog receivers can match that anywhere near that price point?


Also, even though you may suggest a few equal powered receivers, the Panny has fantastic dynamics. I just finished watching one of the Star wars movies again. The Panny is fantastic. My only complaint is that my Dayton Tiny mighty II sub from Parts Express was having trouble keeping up with the volume level I was listening at.

DBRyant & spoonfed...no slight intended nor taken.


I truly wanted the panny to work for me. It didn't. Is that to say they aren't good for other set-ups? Absolutely not! I'm sure they work as well with your gear as you say.


If it makes you feel any differently, I had a Sherwood Newcastle R965 (a $1,600 AVR) which is highly regarded, "crap out" on me in my set-up. I feel badly about it since the Sherwood rep went to great lengths to get one for me. Now, I have to tell him it didn't have the "oomph" to drive my system.


I think digi amps have a great future in the A/V world. For what I need (7-channels of amplification with moderately efficient speakers that have some 6 OHM and 4 OHM dips), they just aren't up to the task, yet. They'll get there.

I was at about -18, even tried -15 (volume setting on the 50). I rarely push any of my electronics but it was sounding nice! I had to keep the trim level for my sub at "min." I usually run the gain at 11 o'clock but turned it down to 10. I didn't have any clipping or distorting but a plant 3 feet away from the sub port was moving like a strong breeze came by as the air being moved by TM II was substantial.


Man, those light sabers and laser shots sound good. Some of the LFE coming from the space ships are quite demanding, I think when i start my basement HT this winter, I may have to try a DIY sub that will move some serious air. I think I may get a second TM II for the interim.

DB....yeah, the LFE while the cruisers are moving through space will move some serious air.


I would take some tweaking, but I bet you could "futz" around with that sub and get it integrated with the SPL and some "ear" tuning. Before I used autoEQ, it took me a month to get my sub dialed in just right so I didn't have any walls rattling or bottoming out....and I'm using a big HSU sub.


I've also invested in a sub stand. It was $50 and called a "Sub Dude". It made a positive difference in tightening up LFE. If interested, sweetwater.com carries them.

graphicguy,


i have "heard" them sherwoods are supose to have loads, or a fair amount of grunt..... if such is struggling no suprised the poor little panny was crying haha

BTW, BB has the Pioneer VSX-1012TX on sale for $100 (web site only) more than the 1014 and the 1012 is THX certified and has 2 DSP processors. It's the 1014's big brother.


Pioneer's MCACC makes easy work of setting up the channel balance. This is a very big drawback of the Pany XR50. Using a DVD for THX setup has never worked very well for me. The audio balance between the fronts & surrounds has never come out right and the balance between the fronts & my sub (Velodyne) always seemed out of wack compared to the setup using the built-in signals on my old Pioneer receiver.