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I have decided that I am going to replace my Klipsch Reference Series RF-3 towers & RC-3 center channel speakers for something new. I have auditioned the Paradigm Reference Series 60's with CC-490 center and a pair of the 100's. They sounded great.


Now rewind, 15 years ago I purchased the NHT 1.5 bookshelf speakers with the SW2P sub & MA-1A amp. I loved them. Then a few years later I had a new house built, with a large, open living room. I replaced the NHTs with the Klipsch speakers and a SVS powered cylinder sub. I felt that I needed something more.


I gave those speakers to my parents, and every time I visit I regret letting those 1.5s go. I keep reading about the new NHTs, and I wonder, could I be happy with their new towers, maybe two box subs (I hate the looks of that big tall black cylinder sub in my living room), center channel, and surrounds?


The cost of their system would be 50% of what the Paradigm will set me back. Am I nuts to think I could compare the two systems? And, do you think I would be disappointed in the NHT's compared to my current system?
 

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When I upgraded from Klipsch - I went to NHT. I believe when you went

to Klipsch, that you down graded. You said that you regret giving them

away. NHT Classic speakers are very musical sounding and are balanced

and dynamic with movies. They are neutral sounding - which means that

the sound is not colored and the measurements are good. No artifical bass

bump and no boosted treble. They have good resolution from high to low.

I will not tell you what to pick - however, I would not over look the NHT.

With the Klipsch - you are missing some midrange resolution.
 

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I have a great deal of respect for Paradigm but I would choose NHT and two Rythmik subs over Paradigm. The fact that you liked your NHT's indicates that you will be happy - can you bring your parents NHT's to the dealer to compare to Paradigm Studio 10's? PSB and KEF to my ears compare pretty similar to NHT - and not just because they're TLA's.


Ron
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs
I have a great deal of respect for Paradigm but I would choose NHT and two Rythmik subs over Paradigm. The fact that you liked your NHT's indicates that you will be happy - can you bring your parents NHT's to the dealer to compare to Paradigm Studio 10's? PSB and KEF to my ears compare pretty similar to NHT - and not just because they're TLA's.


Ron
I was considering Studio 60's or 100's towers. So, shouldn't I been comparing to the Classic 4 or Absolute towers?
 

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I can't comment on the new Absolute Towers, as I haven't really auditioned them, but the Classic Fours are a great tower!


I agree w/ everything Z says below. :thumbsup:

Quote:
Originally Posted by zieglj01 /forum/post/19579603


When I upgraded from Klipsch - I went to NHT. I believe when you went

to Klipsch, that you down graded. You said that you regret giving them

away. NHT Classic speakers are very musical sounding and are balanced

and dynamic with movies. They are neutral sounding - which means that

the sound is not colored and the measurements are good. No artifical bass

bump and no boosted treble. They have good resolution from high to low.

I will not tell you what to pick - however, I would not over look the NHT.

With the Klipsch - you are missing some midrange resolution.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy /forum/post/19580085


I was considering Studio 60's or 100's towers. So, shouldn't I been comparing to the Classic 4 or Absolute towers?

FWIW, here is a review of the Fours when compared directly to the Studio 100 V3s:


http://www.nhthifi.com/site/pdf/Sens..._Four_5-08.pdf


... and with NHT's new ID business model and the sales specials they are always running, along with free shipping and the likely avoidance of state sales tax, you can get the Fours even cheaper now than they were at the time of that review.


I too went from Klipsch to NHT, and never looked back. A pair of Klipsch KLF-30s have been sitting unused in a spare bedroom closet for years now. They knocked me out in the store, but when I got them home, while they were a fun theater speaker to listen to, I realized very quickly that I just couldn't live with the bloated bass, muffled mids, and screechy highs that gave me listeners fatigue after only a few minutes on music.


While I do have some respect for Paradigm, I feel that NHT pretty much bests them at virtually any given price point, just as the the reviewer linked above alludes to about the Fours vs the 100 V3s.


And the current NHT Classics are much, much better in every way than the old 1.5s and SW2ps, so if you liked them so much, you will absolutely love their newer counterparts.
 

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I also concur with all said above. Go with the NHT's, you'll be happy you did. I also had the 1.5's and will agree with Mark that the new Classic series will best them in every respect! You'll also love the looks (if you are into high gloss piano black lacquer), they are just sweet looking speakers.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ /forum/post/19581029


FWIW, here is a review of the Fours when compared directly to the Studio 100 V3s:


http://www.nhthifi.com/site/pdf/Sens..._Four_5-08.pdf


... and with NHT's new ID business model and the sales specials they are always running, along with free shipping and the likely avoidance of state sales tax, you can get the Fours even cheaper now than they were at the time of that review.


I too went from Klipsch to NHT, and never looked back. A pair of Klipsch KLF-30s have been sitting unused in a spare bedroom closet for years now. They knocked me out in the store, but when I got them home, while they were a fun theater speaker to listen to, I realized very quickly that I just couldn't live with the bloated bass, muffled mids, and screechy highs that gave me listeners fatigue after only a few minutes on music.


While I do have some respect for Paradigm, I feel that NHT pretty much bests them at virtually any given price point, just as the the reviewer linked above alludes to about the Fours vs the 100 V3s.


And the current NHT Classics are much, much better in every way than the old 1.5s and SW2ps, so if you liked them so much, you will absolutely love their newer counterparts.

Um...the current Studio 100-s are v5, a very different animal. So your comparison and that of the reviewer is with a speaker two generations old. To draw conclusions regarding offerings of today as you have is inane.
 

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^^^ Which is exactly why I prefaced it with FWIW. Regardless though, I find it very interesting that in only about 2 and a half years since that review, there have already been 2 more different revisions of the S100, along with the subsequent price increases which is now about double the NHT Fours at retail. Especially when a lot of the V5's stated revisions seem to be pretty much about the same or at least very similar things that the NHT Classics already had from the get go. FWIW, NHT sometimes revises their products with upgrades, but don't call it a whole new model or series. Then again, maybe that is a textbook example of better marketing from Paradigm. When NHT does come out with something new, like when they replaced the ST-4 with the Four for example, it is a very obvious upgrade that totally warrants and justifies the name change.


Besides, isn't it just about time for V6 to be coming out any day now isn't it?
Just kidding. Like I stated before, I do have respect for Paradigm when you can find them at the right price.


I think the PSB Synchrony Ones are a better overall speaker than NHT Fours, (although certainly not in every way however), but I just don't think that they are that much better as to justify over double the price, but, hey, that's just me.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ /forum/post/19582741


^^^ Which is exactly why I prefaced it with FWIW. Regardless though, I find it very interesting that in only about 2 and a half years since that review, there have already been 2 more different revisions of the S100, along with the subsequent price increases which is now about double the NHT Fours at retail. Especially when a lot of the V5's stated revisions seem to be pretty much about the same or at least very similar things that the NHT Classics already had from the get go. FWIW, NHT sometimes revises their products with upgrades, but don't call it a whole new model or series. Then again, maybe that is a textbook example of better marketing from Paradigm. When NHT does come out with something new, like when they replaced the ST-4 with the Four for example, it is a very obvious upgrade that totally warrants and justifies the name change.


Besides, isn't it just about time for V6 to be coming out any day now isn't it?
Just kidding. Like I stated before, I do have respect for Paradigm when you can find them at the right price.


I think the PSB Synchrony Ones are a better overall speaker than NHT Fours, (although certainly not in every way however), but I just don't think that they are that much better as to justify over double the price, but, hey, that's just me.

There are so many illogical, non-science based assumptions in the above I don't know where to begin. Suffice it to say FWIW in no way educated the OP that you are comparing older generations of products and making a recommendation on that basis as to two current, entirely different products. At most you're discussing which brand you like better. Since this is a science forum, I think it's important to note when a recommendation is devoid of common sense or logic, particularly when obvious bias and inference from specs is used to make a recommendation to someone else about how they spend their money or time. "FWIW" frequent generation changes can be a positive or a negative relative to offerings that are current.


It's enough to say you like a speaker or are bigger fan of one company than another. Based on your input it's safe to say you've never done an A/B listening test of the specific speakers she's considering, which should be required before making better than, as good as or similar statements. The OP can judge for herself, at this point, the level of unfounded assumption and bias in your statements, and the point of my posts are to help her do that.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzzo /forum/post/19583097


There are so many illogical, non-science based assumptions in the above I don't know where to begin. Suffice it to say FWIW in no way educated the OP that you are comparing older generations of products and making a recommendation on that basis as to two current, entirely different products. At most you're discussing which brand you like better. Since this is a science forum, I think it's important to note when a recommendation is devoid of common sense or logic, particularly when obvious bias and inference from specs is used to make a recommendation to someone else about how they spend their money or time. "FWIW" frequent generation changes can be a positive or a negative relative to offerings that are current.


It's enough to say you like a speaker or are bigger fan of one company than another. Based on your input it's safe to say you've never done an A/B listening test of the specific speakers she's considering, which should be required before making better than, as good as or similar statements. The OP can judge for herself, at this point, the level of unfounded assumption and bias in your statements, and the point of my posts are to help her do that.

So, tell me, exactly what "science" have you contributed here?



Also, note that I did specifically mention that it was the V3 version in that post with the link too. Maybe you somehow missed that the first time around.



It's just plain old common sense (not "science") that anyone should direct A/B compare if at all possible. That goes without saying. Then she could see for her herself if double the costs is justified in her opinion.


On that note, it might not exactly be "science" in your view, but reality is that NHT enjoys some cost advantages over Paradigm right now, particularly being ID now, along with Chinese construction. It's one thing to get upset if someone doesn't compare one of your favorite speaker brands favorably to another on price, bang for the buck, point of diminishing returns, or what have you, but sometimes there are circumstances which make it so.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark russ /forum/post/19583286


So, tell me, exactly what "science" have you contributed here?



Also, note that I did specifically mention that it was the V3 version in that post with the link too. Maybe you somehow missed that the first time around.



It's just plain old common sense (not "science") that anyone should direct A/B compare if at all possible. That goes without saying. Then she could see for her herself if double the costs is justified in her opinion.


On that note, it might not exactly be "science" in your view, but reality is that NHT enjoys some cost advantages over Paradigm right now, particularly being ID now, along with Chinese construction. It's one thing to get upset if someone doesn't compare one of your favorite speaker brands favorably to another on price, bang for the buck, point of diminishing returns, or what have you, but sometimes there are circumstances which make it so.

As you seem to completely miss the logical points made and seem prone to conclusion jumping, I'll move on. The only thing further I'd say is that those on this site that create misinformation detract. Those that allow ones with knowledge to provide insight don't. Those that can think are fortunately here in abundance.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathy /forum/post/19580085


I was considering Studio 60's or 100's towers. So, shouldn't I been comparing to the Classic 4 or Absolute towers?

Ideally, yes, but NHT can sometimes be hard to find. If that's the case you could a/b test the NHT's you gave your folks with the bookshelf versions of the 'digms you are considering. It won't be a perfect test, but it could be worthwhile.


Ignore the people arguing in this thread. NHT, Paradigm, Revel, PSB, KEF are all excellent speakers. It will come down to your preference at the price point you are comfortable with.


Paradigm started as a value leader but as they gained (deserved) respect their prices moved to a premium similar to B&W.


Ron
 

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Folks who went from Klipsch to NHT, please chime in.


How did you handle the big drop in sensitivity. I mean, if you care about listening at higher SPLs or movies, the NHT has a like a 86db sensitivity, where as some of the Klipsch lines have 96.


Sitting 11ft away from a speaker, there is no way you can achieve some of the higher reference levels, right?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lorenzzo /forum/post/19583582


As you seem to completely miss the logical points made and seem prone to conclusion jumping, I'll move on. The only thing further I'd say is that those on this site that create misinformation detract. Those that allow ones with knowledge to provide insight don't. Those that can think are fortunately here in abundance.

Well you know, instead of trying to portray yourself as being so knowledgeable by just sitting on your throne and snipping at others, you could actually ow try to show some of that knowledge instead of running away. You could start by simply trying to refute anything I said. With "science" that is, and not just personal opinion. I mean, after all, you can't have it both ways at the same time so that "science" doesn't apply to your opinion, but it does to mine or anyone else's you know?



I made some very logical points about NHT's current cost advantages over Paradigm that you did not seem to grasp, or, more than likely, simply overlooked because you know you are incapable of refuting them.


While I have heard them both, no, I haven't direct A/Bed Fours against 100 V5s in a level matched comparison in the same room on the same equipment, but how many here actually have? Likely not very many. But even if I and others have, and even if there was a unanimous opinion shared by all who had as to which they like better (which would be all but impossible unto itself anyway), that still doesn't mean that the OP would like what everyone else did. It is obviously all subjective and personal taste in speaker comparisons. This is exactly why it is goes without saying that everyone should direct A/B for themselves instead simply taking the word of others over the internet for it (as that would truly be "inane").


And that's all before price even enters the equation as a factor. And it is a factor for by far most people. Comparing NHT's and Paradigm's current business models may be apples to oranges, but that does not matter when it comes to having to shell out one's hard earned dollars. Even if someone decided that they did in fact like the 'Digms better, they may decide it isn't by enough to justify double the price difference. And again, this is all just plain old common sense that doesn't exactly require a degree in "science".



Now, try to actually debate this with some intelligent counterpoints if you can, but I'm not exactly going to hold my breath over it.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RonaldoCombs /forum/post/19584097


Ideally, yes, but NHT can sometimes be hard to find. If that's the case you could a/b test the NHT's you gave your folks with the bookshelf versions of the 'digms you are considering. It won't be a perfect test, but it could be worthwhile.


Ignore the people arguing in this thread. NHT, Paradigm, Revel, PSB, KEF are all excellent speakers. It will come down to your preference at the price point you are comfortable with.


Paradigm started as a value leader but as they gained (deserved) respect their prices moved to a premium similar to B&W.


Ron

Well, at least you mentioned A/B testing but then moved to generalizations about brands not based on data, specifics or listening tests. I'm not defending any brand but merely the idea of listening, and credible comparisons of specific speakers rather than generalizations not based on facts, or even educated opinions.
 
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