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Needed a little help to choose one of these 2 options. Which would be best for side and rear surround for a 7.2.4.
My system so far consists L/R 95f/ CC 55c / 90C, 4 in Ceiling CI Pro 80R and soon 2 subs ( still searching for subs most likely either SVS or Rythmik).


Options 1 Use the Millenia 20 for sides and surrounds and put the tweeter 1 feet above the head.
Option 2 Use Paradigm 15B book shelves for the rears and Millenia 20 for the sides.
All placed with the tweeter about 1 feet above the head to have space between them and the ceiling speakers.
For 2 years I do not have to think about speakers , till the next upgrade. They will be powered by either the Anthem MCA 525 or the Parasound. Room is 15 by 21 , ceiling height is 9.

Thanks
The 15Bs are capable of an 80Hz crossover, the Millenia 20s will require a 120Hz crossover. I prefer the 15Bs for surrounds, if at all possible.
 

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The 15Bs are capable of an 80Hz crossover, the Millenia 20s will require a 120Hz crossover. I prefer the 15Bs for surrounds, if at all possible.
I don’t think he has the room if 25s’s were too big if i read many of his posts correctly- the back is a good option for 15b’s as you are saying - those would do well - i think he is looking at something other than an in wall for his sides but still doesn’t take up much space the m-20’s are tall but very thin and could be rotated to the listening position with wall mounts
Probably a good option since he said he has limited room from his seats to his walls i think he said something like 15’ wide (room dimension)

I think he just purchased an Anthem avm70 pre pro and everything else he is installing he should have a pretty nice set up not sure what he had before but he will be rocking the house 🏠 for sure
 

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Needed a little help to choose one of these 2 options. Which would be best for side and rear surround for a 7.2.4.
My system so far consists L/R 95f/ CC 55c / 90C, 4 in Ceiling CI Pro 80R and soon 2 subs ( still searching for subs most likely either SVS or Rythmik).


Options 1 Use the Millenia 20 for sides and surrounds and put the tweeter 1 feet above the head.
Option 2 Use Paradigm 15B book shelves for the rears and Millenia 20 for the sides.
All placed with the tweeter about 1 feet above the head to have space between them and the ceiling speakers.
For 2 years I do not have to think about speakers , till the next upgrade. They will be powered by either the Anthem MCA 525 or the Parasound. Room is 15 by 21 , ceiling height is 9.

Thanks
Let me add that if you already have the M20s, then it certainly can't hurt to use them as your side surrounds, especially if space is at a premium.
 

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This is my front stage and I love my Prestige...not sure if the Founders would be that much different.

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This is my front stage and I love my Prestige...not sure if the Founders would be that much different.
Nice SUB! 😀
 
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I don’t think he has the room if 25s’s were too big if i read many of his posts correctly- the back is a good option for 15b’s as you are saying - those would do well - i think he is looking at something other than an in wall for his sides but still doesn’t take up much space the m-20’s are tall but very thin and could be rotated to the listening position with wall mounts
Probably a good option since he said he has limited room from his seats to his walls i think he said something like 15’ wide (room dimension)

I think he just purchased an Anthem avm70 pre pro and everything else he is installing he should have a pretty nice set up not sure what he had before but he will be rocking the house 🏠 for sure
Almost feels like you have been here. I can certainly place 15b's in the back and Millenia 20's on the side. If this is a better Option. Yes the room is 15w by 21L.
 

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The 15Bs are capable of an 80Hz crossover, the Millenia 20s will require a 120Hz crossover. I prefer the 15Bs for surrounds, if at all possible.
I am not a technical guy , I just enjoying using them and listening to them speakers. Even just walking in and looking at them makes me smile some times. My source are the salesmen but even that is changed now, this forum has served me well over the years, I do not where I would be without the help I get from this forum. Its just not help its like there are so many geniuses in our forums and so helpful. I am very grateful to all of you guys. For example I bought a Nx5 yesterday while I had a LG AU810 at home. Nx5 is arriving in 2 weeks , and now having second thoughts that I should I have bought Nx3Z. How do I figure what speaker is capable of the crossover range. I did not know 15b's is 80Hz and Millenia is 120Hz. Is this a calculation cause a lot of times its not under the specs manufactures do not tell you.
 

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You won't be sorry with the NX5. I install these and in my experience that is the best value to be had. I personally would not spend the extra for the NX7 and unless you need the lumens the NX3 doesn't compare. I will admit I do like lasers but the NX5 is my personal favorite projector without getting into astronomical pricing.
 

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Hi gang. Have not posted in ages so had to sign up again. :)
I currently have a pair of Studio 20 v5 and matching cc-590 for my mains along with a Klipsch sub (which I plan to replace). Thinking about upgrading when I saw a store in Burlington advertise the Focal Aria 948 for $5k Cdn ($4k US) ($7,800 Cdn retail) for demo units. At that price range, the new Founder 80F is a contender at $4,500 Cdn. Can't quite swing the 100F. The province just went on lock-down for 4 weeks though so I can't audition them. (I don't think the Focals are setup for listening at this shop any way.)

I am after a couple of improvements. After recently listening to some vintage KEFs, I find that the Studio 20 lack fullness in the bass. The 20 goes deep enough for a bookshelf but I'm finding the mid bass to be thin. The other aspect is that after extended listening the highs seem a bit harsh and I get ear fatigue. The KEFs were very easy on the ears but a little muffled and lacked detail. I would like a tweeter that is not as bright as the Studio 20 but still has plenty of detail.

I see some have heard the Founders already. I would be interested in opinions on how they compare to the Studio line and also if anyone has heard the Focal Aria 948 and how it compares to the Paradigms.
 

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I am not a technical guy , I just enjoying using them and listening to them speakers. Even just walking in and looking at them makes me smile some times. My source are the salesmen but even that is changed now, this forum has served me well over the years, I do not where I would be without the help I get from this forum. Its just not help its like there are so many geniuses in our forums and so helpful. I am very grateful to all of you guys. For example I bought a Nx5 yesterday while I had a LG AU810 at home. Nx5 is arriving in 2 weeks , and now having second thoughts that I should I have bought Nx3Z. How do I figure what speaker is capable of the crossover range. I did not know 15b's is 80Hz and Millenia is 120Hz. Is this a calculation cause a lot of times its not under the specs manufactures do not tell you.
Paradigm does a good job of providing decent specs on the product pages. One thing to look for is the "Frequency response (on axis)" line on the Specifications page for each speaker. The 15B has a Frequency Response of "±2dB from 57 Hz - 20 kHz". This means that the speaker has relatively flat frequency response to about 57Hz at the same SPL (Sound Pressure Level - ie: "volume"). This means that it should be able to play a 57Hz note just as loudly and as clearly as a 15,000Hz note. Due to the speaker design (bass-reflex, meaning that the cabinet is ported) it has a specific tuning frequency (say, 55Hz). Bass extension and SPL fall off drastically below this tuning frequency; it's simply part of the design of the speaker. All this means that the 15B can be integrated into a HT with an 80Hz crossover to the subs with zero difficulties.

The Millenia 20, has a frequency response of "±2 dB from 110 Hz - 20 kHz". This is a perfect example of Hoffman's Iron Law: "You can have a small size, deep bass extension, or high sensitivity. Pick two". The M20 has 92dB/W/m sensitivity (pretty darned good for a home speaker, and even more so for an on-wall one), and is relatively thin and small compared to a tower speaker with the same driver layout. What it gives up is the bass extension.
The bass will roll off from 110Hz down quickly. It's usually advisable to cross over the speakers about 20Hz higher than the "F3" or lowest extension in the specs (Paradigm uses a tighter window than most, with a 4dB total variation rather than a 6dB one). Normally, this would mean that the Millenia 20 should be crossed over at 130Hz. The thing is, bass starts to become localized shortly above 80Hz. Deep male voices (ie: Darth Vader) average around 85Hz. With speakers that cannot be crossed over at 80Hz, you may end up with deep voices coming from the sub, which may NOT be placed right next to the speaker being used at that moment. Therefore, instead of Vader's voice coming from your left shoulder, it will be coming from wherever the subwoofer is in your room.

Now, with all that said, your room constraints come into play. There are many in-wall speakers that would suit your needs perfectly, and would be capable of an 80Hz crossover, and would be less expensive than the M20s. Yes, you would have to go through the hassle of running wire and mounting them. The extra bonus is that you will have even more room to get past your seating, since the grilles will be flush to the wall, and no speaker box will jut out into the passageway. The CI Pro P80-IW speakers will sonically match your Prestige setup and can play down to 57Hz (very similar to the 15Bs). In fact, with the Prestige series being discontinued, it may make finding 15Bs difficult.
 
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I was told by Paradigm that the reason for the break in period is that the fluid in the coils needs to settle. It all discombobulated during shipping.
Yeah, if the factory drives/tests the speakers for any length of time before installing them, they are pretty much broken in (in my book). Sure, play them for a few hours, might settle them a bit firther, but beyond that? Show me the measurements that show enough change that is audibly beneficial. Opinions of course will vary, and maybe studies out prove there really is break-in that leads to significant audible changes. Willing to look at that if they exist...
Will do but, I am not a big believer in speaker break in personally. Aside from the surrounds loosening up a bit, the mechanics of the drivers maybe smoothing out a bit, and I guess one can argue capacitors can break in a bit too but, this is all minimal imo and should smooth out in little time.

Good to know as if I am spending this kind of coin I expect a large difference from my current 800F's.
FWIW, I have some measurements below demonstrating the effects of breakin on my Persona 3F and Persona C.
I won't say they are conclusive in regards to showing that the speakers measure better after break-in, but I can say that there are definitely measured differences (albeit, those measured differences are subtle).

Measures are of each speaker @ 5hrs and @ 147hrs.
1/6 smoothing is applied.
No room correction or any equalization is applied, so it's the speakers raw measures on their own.
Speakers are in the same positions, nothing was moved in the room either re: furniture.

I've basically been playing music in 3.0.0 of all varieties at ~60-80dB + about 20% HT content for 24/7 for about a week now with occasional 2-3 hour breaks now and again.

To my ear, all I can say is that most of the brightness that was there when I first set them up is gone (but then again unsure if that's listener bias or not).
Again, fwiw.

3120442


3120443


3120444
 

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You won't be sorry with the NX5. I install these and in my experience that is the best value to be had. I personally would not spend the extra for the NX7 and unless you need the lumens the NX3 doesn't compare. I will admit I do like lasers but the NX5 is my personal favorite projector without getting into astronomical pricing.
You won't be sorry with the NX5. I install these and in my experience that is the best value to be had. I personally would not spend the extra for the NX7 and unless you need the lumens the NX3 doesn't compare. I will admit I do like lasers but the NX5 is my personal favorite projector without getting into astronomical pricing.
You won't be sorry with the NX5. I install these and in my experience that is the best value to be had. I personally would not spend the extra for the NX7 and unless you need the lumens the NX3 doesn't compare. I will admit I do like lasers but the NX5 is my personal favorite projector without getting into astronomical pricing.
Bob Thanks for all your help my friend, spending that much time with a complete stranger. Even thought you are out there back east and I am all the way on the west coast. I flew out there in 2011 when the Boston Bruins won the Stanley Cup I was in that parade.
With all your help , I am no longer thinking about my projector situation any more. I went to a wholesaler and got a demo for both the NX3 and NX5 spent about 2 hours with these 2 and Yes I played with the lights and measured distances etc. Took your advice with me in there turned off the front lights etc and watched the screen went back and forth. I was basically in a Candy store. I have concluded that you can not believe google all the time. I did everything I learned from you the angles , lights , distances etc. I went out and bought the NX7 basically upgraded from the NX5 cost me $ 1700 extra but I did it anyways. Guys I checked out the NX5 before in action at a store and today at this other place they looked like completely different projectors. Value of proper calibration I saw it with my eyes. I drove back to the original store and checked if it was JVC NX5 pic was good nowhere to the level I saw at the wholesaler.
My Projector arrives next week on Friday or on Monday after that weekend.
Thanks for your help. Now I have to get the right screen.
 

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FWIW, I have some measurements below demonstrating the effects of breakin on my Persona 3F and Persona C.
I won't say they are conclusive in regards to showing that the speakers measure better after break-in, but I can say that there are definitely measured differences (albeit, those measured differences are subtle).

Measures are of each speaker @ 5hrs and @ 147hrs.
1/6 smoothing is applied.
No room correction or any equalization is applied, so it's the speakers raw measures on their own.
Speakers are in the same positions, nothing was moved in the room either re: furniture.

I've basically been playing music in 3.0.0 of all varieties at ~60-80dB + about 20% HT content for 24/7 for about a week now with occasional 2-3 hour breaks now and again.

To my ear, all I can say is that most of the brightness that was there when I first set them up is gone (but then again unsure if that's listener bias or not).
Again, fwiw.

View attachment 3120442

View attachment 3120443

View attachment 3120444
That's quite the suck-out from 2-5kHz in the centre channel. That concerns me...
 

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Paradigm does a good job of providing decent specs on the product pages. One thing to look for is the "Frequency response (on axis)" line on the Specifications page for each speaker. The 15B has a Frequency Response of "±2dB from 57 Hz - 20 kHz". This means that the speaker has relatively flat frequency response to about 57Hz at the same SPL (Sound Pressure Level - ie: "volume"). This means that it should be able to play a 57Hz note just as loudly and as clearly as a 15,000Hz note. Due to the speaker design (bass-reflex, meaning that the cabinet is ported) it has a specific tuning frequency (say, 55Hz). Bass extension and SPL fall off drastically below this tuning frequency; it's simply part of the design of the speaker. All this means that the 15B can be integrated into a HT with an 80Hz crossover to the subs with zero difficulties.

The Millenia 20, has a frequency response of "±2 dB from 110 Hz - 20 kHz". This is a perfect example of Hoffman's Iron Law: "You can have a small size, deep bass extension, or high sensitivity. Pick two". The M20 has 92dB/W/m sensitivity (pretty darned good for a home speaker, and even more so for an on-wall one), and is relatively thin and small compared to a tower speaker with the same driver layout. What it gives up is the bass extension.
The bass will roll off from 110Hz down quickly. It's usually advisable to cross over the speakers about 20Hz higher than the "F3" or lowest extension in the specs (Paradigm uses a tighter window than most, with a 4dB total variation rather than a 6dB one). Normally, this would mean that the Millenia 20 should be crossed over at 130Hz. The thing is, bass starts to become localized shortly above 80Hz. Deep male voices (ie: Darth Vader) average around 85Hz. With speakers that cannot be crossed over at 80Hz, you may end up with deep voices coming from the sub, which may NOT be placed right next to the speaker being used at that moment. Therefore, instead of Vader's voice coming from your left shoulder, it will be coming from wherever the subwoofer is in your room.

Now, with all that said, your room constraints come into play. There are many in-wall speakers that would suit your needs perfectly, and would be capable of an 80Hz crossover, and would be less expensive than the M20s. Yes, you would have to go through the hassle of running wire and mounting them. The extra bonus is that you will have even more room to get past your seating, since the grilles will be flush to the wall, and no speaker box will jut out into the passageway. The CI Pro P80-IW speakers will sonically match your Prestige setup and can play down to 57Hz (very similar to the 15Bs). In fact, with the Prestige series being discontinued, it may make finding 15Bs difficult.
WoW how do I thank you and what do I say. Thank You. I am open to in wall if they sound better than the millenia 20.
M20's are free , I bought them years ago. Only problem with the in wall is on the left surround I would have to angle this IW to the MLP , I am not sure how I would do that. I do not listen to music in this room, only movies and sports. If they will complete the round circle of Helicopter in the room and when chopper swings around I do not want the chopper to sound different between the atmos and sides and surrounds in terms tonal matching. I can get the 15B's, I have the 25's as well. My dealer has them all saved for me since I have bought so much for him. I tell him my friends are helping me choose, which are all of you in here. I can do any possible combination.
With in wall if you see the pic that little by the door where behind the purple can that is where the speaker would go, I am not sure how to angle the CI Pro P80- IW. The one on the other side goes right beside the pool stick cue rack. ( Cue stick rack will be relocated). One other option for in wall I can think off are my atmos speakers cause they do make CI Pro P80A, I can angle the tweeter to the MLP would these be better than the M20. This is my last decision , with the Subs I am gonna call SVS tomorrow and tell them to send a couple according to my room size. Other than that the screen, I think I have everything. The screen I have is Da lite 1.0 Parallax. I will figure this out when the guy that tunes this projector he can maybe help me with that
Thanks for all of your guys. Next upgrade in 3 years. All this will be listed here in the classifieds.
 

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WoW how do I thank you and what do I say. Thank You. I am open to in wall if they sound better than the millenia 20.
M20's are free , I bought them years ago. Only problem with the in wall is on the left surround I would have to angle this IW to the MLP , I am not sure how I would do that. I do not listen to music in this room, only movies and sports. If they will complete the round circle of Helicopter in the room and when chopper swings around I do not want the chopper to sound different between the atmos and sides and surrounds in terms tonal matching. I can get the 15B's, I have the 25's as well. My dealer has them all saved for me since I have bought so much for him. I tell him my friends are helping me choose, which are all of you in here. I can do any possible combination.
With in wall if you see the pic that little by the door where behind the purple can that is where the speaker would go, I am not sure how to angle the CI Pro P80- IW. The one on the other side goes right beside the pool stick cue rack. ( Cue stick rack will be relocated). One other option for in wall I can think off are my atmos speakers cause they do make CI Pro P80A, I can angle the tweeter to the MLP would these be better than the M20. This is my last decision , with the Subs I am gonna call SVS tomorrow and tell them to send a couple according to my room size. Other than that the screen, I think I have everything. The screen I have is Da lite 1.0 Parallax. I will figure this out when the guy that tunes this projector he can maybe help me with that
Thanks for all of your guys. Next upgrade in 3 years. All this will be listed here in the classifieds.
I can't remember if you are doing a single or multiple rows of seating. Right now, if the MLP is at the back wall, then 7 ear-level speakers may not be the best option. If you move the MLP up to the 2/3 point to the screen, then you can certainly use 7 ear-level speakers.
From what I can tell with that photo, the pool table has to go. Moving the seats forward looks to put them at the level of that higher shelf on the left. That's the perfect spot for a bookshelf speaker, and it LOOKS like you have enough room on the right for another one. The 25S can fit there too, but I believe they sound their best mounted flush to a wall. The built-in alcove would block some of the drivers.
For your Atmos channels, the CI Home H65-A (or the Pro version for a few $$$ more) would be a better option due to the angled baffle. This will allow you to aim the who speaker towards your MLP, and ensure coverage for as many seats as possible.
That's for sure, you don't buy Persona's for the measurements. Really hoping the Founder's are much better.
@Sittler27 was looking for a centre that is better than his old CC-690. Without hearing them both in his room, and going by his in-room measurements alone, then the Persona doesn't seem to measure up...
 

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I can't remember if you are doing a single or multiple rows of seating. Right now, if the MLP is at the back wall, then 7 ear-level speakers may not be the best option. If you move the MLP up to the 2/3 point to the screen, then you can certainly use 7 ear-level speakers.
From what I can tell with that photo, the pool table has to go. Moving the seats forward looks to put them at the level of that higher shelf on the left. That's the perfect spot for a bookshelf speaker, and it LOOKS like you have enough room on the right for another one. The 25S can fit there too, but I believe they sound their best mounted flush to a wall. The built-in alcove would block some of the drivers.
For your Atmos channels, the CI Home H65-A (or the Pro version for a few $$$ more) would be a better option due to the angled baffle. This will allow you to aim the who speaker towards your MLP, and ensure coverage for as many seats as possible.

@Sittler27 was looking for a centre that is better than his old CC-690. Without hearing them both in his room, and going by his in-room measurements alone, then the Persona doesn't seem to measure up...
Pool table war goes on which I wont win. Till the kids move out. When I watch movies I pull the seats 5 feet from the back wall. I already have the CI pro 80R in the ceiling installed already. I read on some of dolby sites where they suggest not to use the dipole or bipole speaker speakers if one is doing atmos. Paradigm has told me that 25s is an adaptive dipole speaker. One row of seating only. Basically I think it boils down to this CI pro 80A , CI Home H65-A , CI Pro P80-IW these 3 sets is there anything they do not give me that the 15 B would. Basically are those 3 really close to book shelf.
 

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That's for sure, you don't buy Persona's for the measurements. Really hoping the Founder's are much better.
I don’t have measurements on the founder 90c or 100f towers i would like to see them eventually if i had a way to do this for everyone i would have certainly posted already
Comparing prestige 95f and 55c i already had and switching them out in exact locations and with no calibration changes to what was professionally done i will take the founders no questions asked not that the prestige were bad by any means
 
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