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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All,


I'm looking for upgrades to my Speakers. My listening preference is 80% music/20% HT - the music played through a mid-end pro-ject turntable.


I think I can afford one of the following combinations:


Paradigm Signature S4 + a reasonable subwoofer


or


Paradigm Studio 60s + a good sub


Could you guys tell me what your preferences would be? Would I see a clear improvement with S4 over Studio 60s?


I have a Marantz SR8400 receiver now, but will eventually upgrade to an Anthem 2 Channel Amp using the Marantz pre-outs.


Thanks!
 

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Quote:
Could you guys tell me what your preferences would be? Would I see a clear improvement with S4 over Studio 60s?

Mostly cosmetic between Studio and Signature before the Studios got their face-lift. Now both series look and sound great.


The S4 is a decent sounding speaker (I've owned it), however, I think the S2 (owned it as well) betters it and most certainly the S6 sounds better. There is a reason there is no longer a Studio 40...If there were no one would buy the S4's spending the extra $$ on essentially the same speaker both sound and in appearance.


If it were me, I would probably go with the Studio 60. But, hey, that's just what I would do.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ttowntony /forum/post/16909671


Mostly cosmetic between Studio and Signature



Whoa there ttowntony....



Not sure I would go that far with the comparisons here... there was an upgrade on the cabinet with the new studio line, but IMO the only difference between the Studio .v4 and the Studio .v5 is the cabinet... I own both the .v4 studio's and the .v1 Sig S4's


The drivers on the Sigs .v1's totally out class the quality of the barely upgraded drivers of the .v5 studio's IMO, but even more importantly, I can probably assume that we are talking about the .v2 Sig S4's which are even another step up to distance the Sigs from the Studio's....


I mated my S4's, C3 ADP-590 - 500-1000wpc with a F112.... The power punch and clarity is absolutely astounding to me...


My Studio's are great, same power driven with an Anthem D2v but I personally feel sonically that they just don't compete in the same realm... But I will step back and state that this is my opinion here....


I'm hittin Cedia to see what the .v3 Sigs bring to the plate...
 

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"Mostly cosmetic between Studio and Signature before the Studios got their face-lift. Now both series look and sound great."


..Wow, I couldn't disagree more. My wife, oldest son and i listened to both the Studio 100s (v.4) and S8's (v.2) for quite a long time (with volumes carefully matched) and most definately found the S8's to sound better. ..In short, they were smoother and more like the live music that we are all accustomed to hearing. ..Now bear in mind that the S8's are more than twice the price of the 100's ($6000 vs. $2600). The 100's sounded good, but to our ears the S8's were clearly better.


Here's a question? ..If you listen primarily to music (as do I), then why bother with a subwoofer at all?? Instead of the two scenarios you proposed, what about forgoing the subwoofer altogether and instead stepping up to the Signature S6's?? What sort of music do you listen to?? If you're listening to tons of techno with gobs of wayyyyy low bass, then you may miss a bit of this with the S6's, however if you listen to just about anything else, the S6's extend very low. ..To me, when it comes to music, subwoofers create more problems than they solve. ..More cables, more adjustments, and a ton of money spent to add a tiny bit of low end that may not even exist in the music you listen to most often.


Plus, you mention you watch movies 20% of the time?? What type of movies to you tend to watch?? ..Soundtracks sound fantastic through Paradigm Signatures! ..The only thing you may miss is the last bit of impact that comes from loud science-fiction or action films.
 

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I had studio 60 v4 and upgraded to S4 v2. The Signatures are much better then the studios. I mostly use mine for music and the difference was well worth the upgrade. You do want a sub with the S4 if you have a decent sized room or skip the sub and go with the S6. Basically if you can get the Signatures over the studios do it. The drivers are all different between the studio and the signature.
 

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Quote:
Whoa there ttowntony....

I knew someone would disagree.



I've owned every Paradigm Studio and Signature speaker v1 & v2 but the S8 and Studio 100. The Studio 100 and S8 are completely different than those the OP is questioning, so let's throw those out of the discussion. Let's also throw out the S2 and Studio 20. FWIW, I feel the S2 is the best speaker Paradigm makes, though.



The S4 and Studio 40 to me sounded almost identical. The S4 had a smoother top end with a bit less edge and provided no more output than it's smaller sibling. Ultimately, I sold the Studio 40 and S4 off and kept the S2's.


Is there some magical difference between the latest S4 that I'm missing?


Still very nice speakers nonetheless I could live with for a long time. I just happen to think the S6 is a much better speaker and think the Studio 60 sounds mostly the same.......90-95% the same to my ears.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by syd123 /forum/post/16910950



Here's a question? ..If you listen primarily to music (as do I), then why bother with a subwoofer at all??


No offense syd123, you and I have the same taste in quality speakers here.... but our tastes start to approach that fork in the road when it comes to bass....


I am extremely passionate about the quality as well as quantity with serious IMPACT !! I personally feel that even the S8's in my eye's are capable to produce the power, presentation and impact of bass at the listening levels I am used to.


I would rather have multiple subs crossed over high (say 120hz) to let my speakers shine like crazy with stupid amounts of wattage in the mid to upper range then to try to get them to stress on producing the low notes where they were made to stretch down to... The S8's can do it, but my wallet allows me to build subs that are far more capable in those area's...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/16911469


No offense syd123, you and I have the same taste in quality speakers here.... but our tastes start to approach that fork in the road when it comes to bass....


I am extremely passionate about the quality as well as quantity with serious IMPACT !! I personally feel that even the S8's in my eye's are capable to produce the power, presentation and impact of bass at the listening levels I am used to.


I would rather have multiple subs crossed over high (say 120hz) to let my speakers shine like crazy with stupid amounts of wattage in the mid to upper range then to try to get them to stress on producing the low notes where they were made to stretch down to...

But Warpdrv I think you're forgetting about his budget constraints. To restate my point: is it better to spread his budget across a pair of 2-way mains + 1 Sub, or to spend it all on a considerably better set of 3-way mains?? The answer, in my opinion, will depend on the room size and on the kind of music /movies the OP enjoys.


From what I've read, the S6's extend very deep and with very good impact. ..In short, they are not bass-shy! And for some (myself included) and perhaps the OP as well, the listening experience derives more from what the tweeter and mid-range drivers are doing than what a sub-woofer is apt to contribute. Put another way: The more refined sound, greater dynamic realism and seamless integration that the 3-way S6's offer is something that he's apt to enjoy with each and every song whereas the advantage that the S4/ Subwoofer combo has in bass extension and bass impact may be something he will only occassionally notice. Plus, he uses a turntable as his front end which may mean - depending on room-effects and how well the TT is isolated - that he can't use the subwoofer to maximum effect.


Lastly, going with S6's and NO sub now gives him a sensible upgrade path going forward. It gets him 95% of the way there NOW. Then, when his budget allows somewhere down the road (months or years), he can add a sub to get that last bit of bass extension and the tiny incremental improvement that accrues to the mid-ranges when a sub is utilized. The more I think about it, this is the direction that I would go.


As a last added comment, with the Signature V.2's scheduled to be replaced soon (based only on what I'm reading here) it may be the case that the S6 v.2's can be bought at a fairly deep discount. ..They are such an extraordinary speaker, I wouldn't let the fact that they are being replaced soon bother me. ..Improvements within a line are usually - at best - very tiny incremental improvements that may nearly imperceptible under a "blinded" comparison (e.g., volumes perfectly matched, eyes closed).
 

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Very true & I agree with you 100%.... but the S6's will likely be out of the price range that he is negotiating here....


I listened to the S6's and S8's and the S6's were every bit as capable as the S8's with a touch less depth reaching... To get him all the benefits that the S6's offer, going with the S4's and adding a sub (even an SVS SB 12+ check BSTOCK) will allow him far more flexibility to get the bass right in his room.... There are plus's and minus's in both scenarios which the OP is obviously weighing here... A nice large bookshelf with a sub is a fantastic combo, nothing wrong with that.


I have never really been a strict 2 channel guy, and prefer 1 or multiple subs added to the mix.. when you have a receiver that has a subwoofer output - its a great opportunity to take advantage of.... most 2 channel purists have preamps that don't offer a sub out, so it makes it difficult to integrate.... YMMV


Keep us posted pack_tor on your decision...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/16913467


Very true & I agree with you 100%.... but the S6's will likely be out of the price range that he is negotiating here.....

While you're probably correct, it may not be too far a leap. If he was prepared to spend $3400 on the S4's and then maybe another $600 or $700 on an inexpensive sub, then perhaps a pair of S6's discounted from $5000 down to $4300 (in light of the impending arrival of the V.3's) or so may be in the ballpark.
 

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Def true, but I know he can easily get 25% off on the S4's including delivery, so IMO one could easily add a cc n sub n come in under the price of the S6's. But that's just a sugg


Def an option, I got my sigs off audiogon, couldn't be more thrilled......


Gotta always keep ones options open.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Thanks for all the replies! Did an audition of Signature S4 V2s & Sutdio 100s yesterday. In my opinion, the signatures (even the S4s) are clearly a notch above the studios. It was totally an emotional, immersive listening experience.


I think I'll wait for the V3s to be introdued so I can get the V2s deeply discounted. I'm not averse to spending a bit more to get the S6s if they are clearly better than S4s. Based on my listening, I didn't feel the need for an extra sub for the music I listen too, so S6s may just be a better choice.


Thanks again!
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pack_tor /forum/post/16919506


Thanks for all the replies! Did an audition of Signature S4 V2s & Sutdio 100s yesterday. In my opinion, the signatures (even the S4s) are clearly a notch above the studios. It was totally an emotional, immersive listening experience.


I think I'll wait for the V3s to be introdued so I can get the V2s deeply discounted. I'm not averse to spending a bit more to get the S6s if they are clearly better than S4s. Based on my listening, I didn't feel the need for an extra sub for the music I listen too, so S6s may just be a better choice.


Thanks again!


Keep in mind, that if Paradigm announces the Signature .v3's at Cedia in September that they (new Models) generally don't actually arrive to the dealers until early next year like Feb, March - or even April...
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by pack_tor /forum/post/16919506


Based on my listening, I didn't feel the need for an extra sub for the music I listen too, so S6s may just be a better choice.

I run S6's for my fronts, via a multichannel power amp, as part of an integrated system in a small/medium sized room (12' x 20').


I don't feel the need for a sub at all when listening to music.

However there is one that comes into play for multichannel (7.1) HT duties.....
 
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