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Discussion Starter #1
Sometime in the near future I (perhaps next year) I want to replace my existing 5.1 setup. I have the itch to upgrade, and although it is a way off, I still have questions. Currently I'm running an Infinity system, consisting of Alpha 50 fronts, Alpha 37c center, and Primus 150's for surrounds. My subwoofer is a SVS PB12NSD. I have really enjoyed these speakers, but I feel it's time to move on to something better. The sub is new, so I'll probably won't be replacing that! I'll also most likely replace my aging Sony ES receiver with a new, higher end model, and adding a 2 or 5 channel amp cost permitting.


For some reason I'm drawn to the look of Paradigm speakers, but I haven't had a chance to audition any yet. Rest assured, I will before I buy, but I can't imagine being disappointed. Here is some of the general info I'd like from those with experience of owning these.


A brand new Studio system minus sub will cost about $5000? How much of a difference can I expect from my current setup to this? I love to upgrade, but I'd like this to be the last set of speakers I'll be buying for a long time. Will these or similar makes at this price point do this? I am not rich, but I do want to buy the best I can afford. I would buy the Signature series, but that is a bit out of reach, do the Studio's come close to their performance? Do I need dipole for surrounds? Should I just choose direct radiating?


I am also open to other speaker manufacturers. Are there speakers in the same price region that can compare? I hear Paradigm gives tremendous bang for the buck. I do a little of everything with my home theater. Gaming, movies, music, probably in that order, I just want something that satisfies. I don't want a really bright, hurt your ears speaker, and I do like to have a good bass kick from my speakers. Can the Studio's kick out good low and mid bass? They certainly look like they should have no trouble!


My HT room is small (12x14x8) and these will probably be overkill, but like I said, I want speakers I can keep and be happy with for a long time, something I can take with me to a bigger room down the road. I've hear that horizontal position for the center is bad, how is the Paradigm center (cc-690) as far as that goes? I am not an expert in audio, and would probably never notice anything bad, I'm just looking for some input from those with more knowledge. That center looks absolutely fantastic, I must say...and it looks huge!


I don't want to keep rambling on and on, so I'll let other questions pop up in discussion. Thanks for your time, and I appreciate any input.
 

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Damage,


I had a pair of 100's ver. 2 in a room about your size and it was overkill. They were to large and overpowered the room. Everyone has different thoughts on this in regards to speaker size and room dimensions. After I sold the 100's I bought another floor stander and again, it was the overkill mode. In the end, I decided to purchase monitors with quality stands and supplement with a sub, which was a smart move on my part. You'll need to also take into consideration if a speaker is front or rear ported and the distance you can move the fronts from the back of the wall.


The Paradigms are nice no doubt considering the cost factor and what you receive on your return of investment. I would suggest considering monitors and not become fixated on floorstanders with a room that size. I know monitors are not a man's, man purchase for some people. Large floorstanders do look cool no doubt and have more potential on the low end in most cases. However, I never thought I'd purchase monitors for my main system, but it was a very good move on my part due to room size.


This is just my opinion and others will/may take the direct opposite approach. However, it's a suggestion and something to consider when you are ready. Also, it may save you a few dollars in the long run, but I have not priced out Paradigm's Studio line in years. Also, listen to other speakers brands if possible. There are a lot of companies available that you may like more then the Paradigm Studio series.


Much luck,

Charles


Edit: I missed the Paragraph where you are thinking of moving to a larger room size in the future. Take whatever you want from what I wrote.
 

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Discussion Starter #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mozvz /forum/post/12927437


Damage,


I had a pair of 100's ver. 2 in a room about your size and it was overkill. They were to large and overpowered the room. Everyone has different thoughts on this in regards to speaker size and room dimensions. After I sold the 100's I bought another floor stander and again, it was the overkill mode. In the end, I decided to purchase monitors with quality stands and supplement with a sub, which was a smart move on my part.


The Paradigms are nice no doubt considering the cost factor and what you receive on your return of investment. I would suggest considering monitors and not become fixated on floorstanders with a room that size. I know monitors are not a man's, man purchase for some people. Large floorstanders do look cool no doubt and have more potential on the low end in most cases. However, I never thought I'd purchase monitors for my main system, but it was a very good move on my part due to room size.


This is just my opinion and others will/may take the direct opposite approach. However, it's a suggestion and something to consider when you are ready. Also, it may save you a few dollars in the long run, but I have not priced out Paradigm's Studio line in years. Also, listen to other speakers brands if possible. There are a lot of companies available that you may like more then the Paradigm Studio series.


Much luck,

Charles

Thanks Mozvz, I appreciate the input. I had a feeling that it would most certainly be overkill. I would also be investing for the future, moving to a new place someday, where I can have a room the will truly do them justice. Now I admit, that is a long time off, but I'd kick myself having to buy a new set of speakers when I could have just got it done in one shot. Heck, my speakers now are overkill! As far as other speakers are concerned, I am open to suggestions. Thanks again.
 

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Hey Damage, I have a full set of the Studio .v4 100's 690 20's ADP... I can tell you they are bright !! Very forward with a heavy, some say bloated midbass... I really like them alot... but I must also state that my room is bright...


I also just bought a full set of the SVS MTS-01's... for my bedroom which is 1700^3.

These speakers are spectacular sounding... smooth, clean, neutral... not bright at all.. Maybe you can save some good money, with a full bookshelf setup... they pound and are just crystal clear... just food for thought, go check out the speaker thread for these, I have detailed pics and review as well..
 

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Discussion Starter #5

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/12929186


Hey Damage, I have a full set of the Studio .v4 100's 690 20's ADP... I can tell you they are bright !! Very forward with a heavy, some say bloated midbass... I really like them alot... but I must also state that my room is bright...


I also just bought a full set of the SVS MTS-01's... for my bedroom which is 1700^3.

These speakers are spectacular sounding... smooth, clean, neutral... not bright at all.. Maybe you can save some good money, with a full bookshelf setup... they pound and are just crystal clear... just food for thought, go check out the speaker thread for these, I have detailed pics and review as well..

Thanks for the reply Warpdrv. I have actually seen your review, and the MTS do seem very impressive. I am open to different speakers, but like I said in the OP, something is drawing me to the Paradigms. I can't explain why. Is there any more info you can share about these Studios? Are the MTS even in the same category of speaker that the Paradigms are? I appreciate any thoughts you may have.
 

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I know how you feel, when I was looking at different brands I couldn't get past how much I really liked the Studio's, they are just great speakers, both in SQ and looks, and anyone that has come to my house tells me hands down that its probably the best sounding system they have ever heard, now lets also point out that god knows, they probably haven't heard many other systems, and mine is just over the top, and is very impressive... I spent alot of money on it.


You can't go wrong with the Paradigm's, but they are expensive, and to some there are aspects of them that people can pick on... and rightly so.. but they are a very well engineered product and sound fantastic.


Are the MTS towers in the same category as the Studio's 100's, probably not, and your also paying 2x the price so I guess thats a good question.... One could definitely nit pick at either product. I think the build quality of the MTS's is excellent, but the sound that they produce is exceptional, they might not look as sweet as the Studios but there is something about the sound that I almost like better then the Studio's, I like the tweeter in the MTS's much better, its perfect... not bright and tinny or ringing. That is very important to me, my ears are sensitive. I think the cabinet in the MTS's has less resonance the the studio's, which accounts for part of the midbass bloat... I bought the Studio's because my room is freaking huge, and I needed something that would pressurize 8200 cu ft room plus open to almost double that space...


Personally If it was me, in that room I would be looking at a 5.1 bookshelf speakers setup or heck upgrade to the towers for a small amount more meney, (Plus 5% off for return customers) and comparing the Studio 20's to the MBS-01's, The MBS-01's blow away the Studio 20's - hands down... In sound quality Studio 100's in that puny room will be overkill and a waste to me.. unless your planning for the future to head to a much much larger room... and the money is just burning a hole in your pocket...


Your talking about more then a $2000 difference here in price between the two systems... with that said, I think for the difference in price, that the MTS system wins hands down in my eyes... Like I said before, I love the sound quality of the SVS speakers, and depending on how their new LTS line looks, as taken with the sound of the MTS line of speakers as I am - I will have no problem replacing my Studio system with the top of the line LTS's... but they better be absolutely stunning, or its a no go for me..


I went out on a limb here with the pre-order price, as well as return discount - and it really paid off, and surprised the hell outta of me with the sound quality. I didn't need a huge system for my bedroom, and the MTS's are way overkill here, they get extremely loud and maintain those volumes with no problems what so ever... And I'm only powering them right now with a receiver..
 

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I have the Studio 100 v.4 towers and want the CC-690 center to at least start the package and finish off with another pair of 100's for the sides (for multi-channel music purposes).


I would say they are a very balanced sounding speaker and far less bright than a lot of speakers I've listened to. Very open sounding and non-fatiguing. Yes, they do need a good subwoofer for movies (I have an HSU VTF 3.3), and good amplification. I run about 200 watts to each.


I do have them in a large living room with open great room and vaulted ceiling. You could try the Studio 60's and a good sub in your smaller room. The CC-690 is a killer center channel speaker.
 

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Dan:


I'm intrigued by your Paradigm setup. I think having a pair of 100v4's for mains and surrounds along with the CC690 center sounds like a killer system.


What made you go with the 100v4's for surrounds over something like the ADP590's? Is your setup more for music or home theater? I'm about to make a decision on the Paradigms with 100v4s, cc690 and adp590's but my use would be at least 90% home theater.


How would the 100v4's work as surrounds in purely home theater use? Have you auditioned the setup you're purchasing?


Jimmy
 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/12937360


I know how you feel, when I was looking at different brands I couldn't get past how much I really liked the Studio's, they are just great speakers, both in SQ and looks, and anyone that has come to my house tells me hands down that its probably the best sounding system they have ever heard, now lets also point out that god knows, they probably haven't heard many other systems, and mine is just over the top, and is very impressive... I spent alot of money on it.


You can't go wrong with the Paradigm's, but they are expensive, and to some there are aspects of them that people can pick on... and rightly so.. but they are a very well engineered product and sound fantastic.


Are the MTS towers in the same category as the Studio's 100's, probably not, and your also paying 2x the price so I guess thats a good question.... One could definitely nit pick at either product. I think the build quality of the MTS's is excellent, but the sound that they produce is exceptional, they might not look as sweet as the Studios but there is something about the sound that I almost like better then the Studio's, I like the tweeter in the MTS's much better, its perfect... not bright and tinny or ringing. That is very important to me, my ears are sensitive. I think the cabinet in the MTS's has less resonance the the studio's, which accounts for part of the midbass bloat... I bought the Studio's because my room is freaking huge, and I needed something that would pressurize 8200 cu ft room plus open to almost double that space...


Personally If it was me, in that room I would be looking at a 5.1 bookshelf speakers setup or heck upgrade to the towers for a small amount more meney, (Plus 5% off for return customers) and comparing the Studio 20's to the MBS-01's, The MBS-01's blow away the Studio 20's - hands down... In sound quality Studio 100's in that puny room will be overkill and a waste to me.. unless your planning for the future to head to a much much larger room... and the money is just burning a hole in your pocket...


Your talking about more then a $2000 difference here in price between the two systems... with that said, I think for the difference in price, that the MTS system wins hands down in my eyes... Like I said before, I love the sound quality of the SVS speakers, and depending on how their new LTS line looks, as taken with the sound of the MTS line of speakers as I am - I will have no problem replacing my Studio system with the top of the line LTS's... but they better be absolutely stunning, or its a no go for me..


I went out on a limb here with the pre-order price, as well as return discount - and it really paid off, and surprised the hell outta of me with the sound quality. I didn't need a huge system for my bedroom, and the MTS's are way overkill here, they get extremely loud and maintain those volumes with no problems what so ever... And I'm only powering them right now with a receiver..

Thats some good info Warpdrv...by the way, like your name. I can tell you are very impressed with the SVS speakers, and I am waiting myself to see what they have in store for their higher end offering. I wonder what the cost is going to be? I wish I had money burning a hole in my pocket
I just want something I can be real proud of for a HT system....and I have much work to do. I actually do have another room if a speaker like the Paradigms turn out to be to brutal in my current room, and it is a larger one. Also, I am going to be keeping speakers like this for a long time, and someday I will be able to give them a proper home.


How would you describe the bass output of the 100's? I am not a bass freak per se, but I do like a speaker that can give a good chest slap. I am certainly not expecting Cerwin Vega type bass, just accuracy with a good kick. My current speakers (Infinity Alpha 50's) sound real nice, but they don't put out that much low end kick, which is surprising because they have dual 8" woofers. These speakers would be perfect if they had just a little more, and sounded a tad more refined. This is what I'm after. I tend to get the upgrade bug, but I'd like to think if I get the Studio's or a similar speaker, I will be satisfied for a long, long time. At least I hope I am! Will these speakers blow me away compared to what I have?
 

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Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman /forum/post/12940047


I have the Studio 100 v.4 towers and want the CC-690 center to at least start the package and finish off with another pair of 100's for the sides (for multi-channel music purposes).


I would say they are a very balanced sounding speaker and far less bright than a lot of speakers I've listened to. Very open sounding and non-fatiguing. Yes, they do need a good subwoofer for movies (I have an HSU VTF 3.3), and good amplification. I run about 200 watts to each.


I do have them in a large living room with open great room and vaulted ceiling. You could try the Studio 60's and a good sub in your smaller room. The CC-690 is a killer center channel speaker.

Dan, you are really going the distance! I don't think I could handle four Studio's in one room, especially in my small cave, but you do bring up a thought I had. I am not so sure about those little ADP590's for surround speakers. I was wondering if I may be better off with the Studio 20's for surround duty. Now I admit it's been a long time since I've heard a dipole speaker, but I can't say I'm sold on it's advantages. Speakers like these should cast a great soundstage anyway, so maybe direct radiating might be the way to go. The center LOOKS like it's killer, and it must sound great.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyDaves /forum/post/12945096


Dan:


I'm intrigued by your Paradigm setup. I think having a pair of 100v4's for mains and surrounds along with the CC690 center sounds like a killer system.


What made you go with the 100v4's for surrounds over something like the ADP590's? Is your setup more for music or home theater? I'm about to make a decision on the Paradigms with 100v4s, cc690 and adp590's but my use would be at least 90% home theater.


How would the 100v4's work as surrounds in purely home theater use? Have you auditioned the setup you're purchasing?


Jimmy

The benefits of having at least four Studio 100's are for music applications. Multi-channel music from Blu-ray & DVD concerts and SA-CDs/DVD-Audio are my main concern, plus I would then have a kick ass movie system that's practically seamless.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DamageMcRamage /forum/post/12945502


Dan, you are really going the distance! I don't think I could handle four Studio's in one room, especially in my small cave, but you do bring up a thought I had. I am not so sure about those little ADP590's for surround speakers. I was wondering if I may be better off with the Studio 20's for surround duty. Now I admit it's been a long time since I've heard a dipole speaker, but I can't say I'm sold on it's advantages. Speakers like these should cast a great soundstage anyway, so maybe direct radiating might be the way to go. The center LOOKS like it's killer, and it must sound great.

I'd go with the Studio 20's for home theater (sides and rears) over the ADP's as I want discrete surround tracks to sound discrete and not smeared and overly diffuse. The multi-speaker surround imaging comes from proper placement. Plus, if you get into multi-channel, high res. music discs you're all set!


Dan
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Hitchman /forum/post/12946232


I'd go with the Studio 20's for home theater (sides and rears) over the ADP's as I want discrete surround tracks to sound discrete and not smeared and overly diffuse. The multi-speaker surround imaging comes from proper placement. Plus, if you get into multi-channel, high res. music discs you're all set!


Dan

I agree with this 100%, I like direct radiating much better then the ADP's. ADP's tend to smear sound instead of direct it...

I have 20's as my side surround, and I am using a single ADP for my rear.

My room layout is weird, the Plasma is in the corner, and thus the rear speakers are in a corner as well... I bought a single ADP to try as it sits in a corner, and the side firing effect bounces off the walls back into the LP. It works really well... I will have to try with 2 direct radiating speakers back there some time, but I am happy with the results of what I am doing. I don't listen to much in the multichannel area.


Good choice on the 100's for the rears Dan... that is awesome...





Damage... The studio's have that punch you are looking for, they are fantastic in that area... I love mine, and I was going back and forth between the two systems last night... I have really gotten used to how clear and punchy the studio's are, where the mids of the SVS speakers are much less pronounced or smoother...


I have to drag those SVS towers into the great room to see how they sound next to the Studio's..


So far I like the SVS's sound, but I really don't have enough time in with them, I'll still have to see how they compare to tell whether I will keep them...


As far as the Bass on the Studio's, I wouldn't run them without a sub, I have twin SVS Plus/2's in that system, which is probably over kill but I love it... shakes things in my house like crazy too... but I love bass..
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thanks Warpdrv, Dan. I assumed as much about the ADP's for surround duty. Plus, I have to be honest, I don't care for the look of Dipole speakers. I can't imagine a speaker like that outdoing a GOOD bookshelf for surround duty. I also want to clarify your post Warpdrv. You say the 100's have good kick, but you also mention using 2 subwoofers (cool!). Is the bass great for music, and not HT? I would imagine with music the bass would be supplemented with a sub, but not needed. As far as HT goes, a sub is always required
 

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Hey Damage, I just don't feel that even for music (For Me) that the 100's have enough bass for either music or movies... Not everyone feels the same way I do..

Specs on the 100's from Paradigm ±2 dB from 44 Hz - 22 kHz

Now there is not alot of material in music below 25hz, but these speakers don't even extend down to that point obviously. I think that many companies have taken the design standpoint of knowing most people will incorporate a subwoofer into their setup, and therefore they can worry less about building speakers that go the entire range. It is a great time for subwoofers, there are some incredible products that have some amazing performance available.. Look at the Paradigm Servo .v2 - sealed, SVS - Ultra13 - ported, Velodyne DD- series sealed to name a few... Very good on measurements with low distortion. You have the PB-NSD and it will supplement your studio's very nicely.


As far as the horizontal center, the 690 does a great job... I love it, it gives pretty wide dispersion, and my litening area is wide. You will have a small room, and off axis will be at a minimnum and it should work out very well.. With that said, if its possible to get a vertical center channel it would be better, but I'm very happy with my 690...
 

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Discussion Starter #16

Quote:
Originally Posted by Warpdrv /forum/post/12954506


Hey Damage, I just don't feel that even for music (For Me) that the 100's have enough bass for either music or movies... Not everyone feels the same way I do..

Specs on the 100's from Paradigm ±2 dB from 44 Hz - 22 kHz

Now there is not alot of material in music below 25hz, but these speakers don't even extend down to that point obviously. I think that many companies have taken the design standpoint of knowing most people will incorporate a subwoofer into their setup, and therefore they can worry less about building speakers that go the entire range. It is a great time for subwoofers, there are some incredible products that have some amazing performance available.. Look at the Paradigm Servo .v2 - sealed, SVS - Ultra13 - ported, Velodyne DD- series sealed to name a few... Very good on measurements with low distortion. You have the PB-NSD and it will supplement your studio's very nicely.


As far as the horizontal center, the 690 does a great job... I love it, it gives pretty wide dispersion, and my litening area is wide. You will have a small room, and off axis will be at a minimnum and it should work out very well.. With that said, if its possible to get a vertical center channel it would be better, but I'm very happy with my 690...

Hey Warpdrv, I appreciate all of the info you are providing. I know that the Studio's have 44hz-22khz, but I thought I read that they also have extension down to 28hz, is this true, and in what scenario. Going by my Alpha 50 specs, which claim 35hz-22khz, I have a hard time believing that a speaker with 4 7" drivers couldn't dip down at least that low. Like you said, I have a good SVS sub to round out the system, but I'd like to be able to get that kick in the chest with the mid bass listening in just 2 channel.


Speaking of the Paradigm center, I'm going to have to buy a new TV stand to hold that puppy. My current one has only 9" of clearance. I don't want to buy anything lavish, do you know of any stands that can hold that center without it being close to the floor? I am more for the minimalist approach when it comes to furniture. I have a simple Sanus A/V rack for the components, and a modest TV stand.
 

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Damage,

I looked for 2 weeks for a stand to hold that center and 60" panel. If you have a smaller TV or Panel there's more options.

At BB there's this one,(Whalen Furniture - TV Stand for Tube TVs Up to 40" or Flat-Panel TVs Up to 50" - Cherry) I bought this as the price was right and it holds everything.

Also check BDI: Axis 8024, more money, looks nicer.

Another option is,(Bush Furniture VS11536A-03 Segments Rosebud Cherry TV Stand)

I have a couple more but need more info on what TV and other equipment need to be in the stand.

The other options is to modify your existing stand by dropping the shelf down if possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #18

Quote:
Originally Posted by dleto /forum/post/12965577


Damage,

I looked for 2 weeks for a stand to hold that center and 60" panel. If you have a smaller TV or Panel there's more options.

At BB there's this one,(Whalen Furniture - TV Stand for Tube TVs Up to 40" or Flat-Panel TVs Up to 50" - Cherry) I bought this as the price was right and it holds everything.

Also check BDI: Axis 8024, more money, looks nicer.

Another option is,(Bush Furniture VS11536A-03 Segments Rosebud Cherry TV Stand)

I have a couple more but need more info on what TV and other equipment need to be in the stand.

The other options is to modify your existing stand by dropping the shelf down if possible.

Hey dleto, I'll have to check out those suggestions. My TV is a 50" plasma, and the only real thing I want to keep down there is my cable box, and maybe room for another component. I have most of my major stuff on an A/V rack.


Edit:

I just checked out that Whalen, and I was looking at that the other day! Good to know the center fits, but is the shelf rated to hold that 68lb center? Thats the kind of stand I like, very simple.
 

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Like I said, I wouldn't worry about the midbass punch from these speakers, they will give you more then you are used to... I assume you are crossing over at 80hz with you current speakers? at least you should be or wherever your room dictates that you have the least amount of nulls in the crossover area.. I think your confusing where midbass lies, Mid bass isn't in the lower hz region, I believe that midbass range is 80-200hz, which these speakers are more then capable in.... and you could possibly have a room gain in that area, that boosts that range for you naturally.... the sub will be handling all the load below that, and that is probably what your hearing... what are you crossing your sub over at in your reciever..?

I'll put money on it, that the kick in the chest is coming from your sub, in the 40-50hz range... and you got that covered just fine with the sub, don't worry about the extension of the Studio's they are plenty fine for your situation here...


Here is a picture of my Stand....
http://www.standoutdesigns.com/store...p?idCategory=3

 

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Discussion Starter #20
That picture brings a tear to my eye, Warpdrv
Beautiful setup. I actually have my crossover at 70hz, I found that at 80 it made the sound a little hollow. I also have my main speakers set to large, as again, setting them to small made the overall sound a little weak. I think because of the size of my room, I don't get as much of a kick as I should be getting, but it is none the less impressive with the sub on. With 2 channel, not so much with the Infinity's. Like I said, strange with 2 8" drivers. I had them in a bigger room before, and they still didn't hit as hard as they should without a sub. Maybe I'm just bass happy.
 
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