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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Alright, I've had my 100 v.3s for just under a week now and I am really impressed by the sound. Detailed, never harsh, and very tight bass once I got them placed correctly. Also, these babies look great! They may only be laminate, but I really like how they look.


However, there is one thing that bothers me--build quality. Some may say I'm just nit-picking and you may be right, but I'd still like some feedback from others.


To help me explain, let me describe my old floor standing Monitor 9s. The 9s have optional outrigger feet that I can attach to the bottom of the speaker. To do so I'd just screw the feet into a corresponding nut (hope I'm using the correct terminology) embedded in the wood at the bottom of the speaker. This seemed to let me screw in the feet as tight as I wanted without risk of damaging the wood/speakers.


Now, I took off the outrigger feet from the 100 v.3s today (don't ask me why) and was surprised and somewhat apalled to see the screws were going straight into the wood! No nut, no nothing, straight through the laminate and into the wood. It looked very shoddy and cheap. Now, this may be normal, I don't know, and I'm pretty sure it doesn't affect the sound quality, but compared to my cheaper Monitor 9s, it is very disappointing. For the price of these speakers, I think they could at least put in some damn nuts for the feet!


Could any owners of the 100 v.3 or 60 v.3 tell me if their speakers have the nuts for the feet? Can someone tell me if it is normal practice when it comes to floor standers?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Was that pun intended? :)


Yeah, GreatBop, it is a minute detail. As I said in my first post, some will think I'm just nit-picking.


This is sort of a concern for me because I've spent hours and hours testing various placements in my room trying to get a good balance of bass, imaging, etc. In the process I've chucked (not literally) the 100s around A LOT. Now, everytime I tilt them, move them, push and pull em, they make a squeaking noise. It's as if the wood is getting worn out where the screws attach the feet... and it's been less than a week. Over the years, I've probably moved my old Monitor 9s around even more and they don't exhibit any signs of wear and tear. The embedded nuts seem to be doing their job.


For a speaker that costs a few Gs, would it hurt Paradigm to throw a few pennies into the production process and add the nuts? I mean if they could do it for their lower tier series...


If I had a perfect listening room which didn't require me to test a crap load of placements, I probably wouldn't have noticed. But I don't, so I did.


Thanks for your feedback.
 

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Doesn't sound normal. The screws should be going into the wood without some insert. Call Paradigm ASAP.
 

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If you take a step back and look at the big picture, it becomes pretty clear what Paradigm did with the v3 Studio line. With the v2, the Studio line was the flagship, and they went with their percieved best quality across the board. Fast forward to the Signature Series, which becomes the new flagship. Now, the signatures have the best build quality, wood grains, cross-overs, etc. In order to differentiate the two lines, compromises had to be made in the studio line, otherwise noone would pay the premium for the signature line. Those include cabinet design, weight, and a lack of wood veneer choices.


I've seen lots of debate about v2 vs. v3, but in my opinion it boils down to this: how much better are the v3 drivers? If they are significanly better, then v3 owners get:


Signature-like improved sound quality for only a little bit more money with only lower build quality as a trade-off.


If v3 drivers are the same or only marginally better, then v3 owners get:


Similar sound quality with lower build quality and a higher price tag to help fund new R&D.


The best way to decide between the two is to go to a shop and do an A/B comparison if they still have v2s. I just did this last week when I went in to get a pair of Studio 20 v2s to finally replace my mini monitors for rears (I have 60v2 and Studio CC already). Unfortunately, I could only compare the v2 20s with v3 60s, so obviously the 60s had better bass extension and low-end. I thought the high-end was very close between the two, but it wouldn't be a fair comparison unless I heard 60 v2 vs 60 v3. For me, sound quality is more important than build quality, but price is a major factor too. For example, v2s can be had at pretty nice discounts now. I got a demo pair of Studio 20 v2 for $425 with full warranty. When all is said and done, you can't go wrong either way, but I find the debate intriguing!


Chris
 

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I've gone back and forth on this quite a few times as well, and I do feel that Paradigm pared back on the cabinetry with the Studio v.3 series. And as someone else noted, I thought it had to do with Paradigm wanting to clearly differentiate the Studios from the Signatures.


But, the v.3s I've tried still made significant improvements where it counts, in the sound quality. I own a set of the v.2s and when I tried out the v.3s for the first time I was a bit put off by the lighter weight, the plastic framed grilles, the less convincing laminate, and the rubberized top. However, the binding posts are a big improvement, the front firing ports make for better positioning options, and no denying that the drivers are improved.


Sure, the v.3 series probably feels less rugged and bulletproof than the v.2 series, but in my auditions of the Studio 20 and 40, the v.3 series is a clear choice in terms of the overall sound quality. My more recent listening to the Studio 20 v.3 was quite a revelation. The imaging on those speakers is astonishing, and they improved on the 20 v.2 in just about every department, except the bass extension (but the trade off there is much tighter and more coherent bass).


Maybe you should just remove the outrigger feet put them on only when the speaker is positioned properly. My original impressions are posted below.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...83#post2713183
 

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IMO using wood screws into wood to attach the outriggers does not make for a cheap and shoddy speaker. I am not sure how often one needs to take the out riggers off anyway. :)


Just think of all the things that are attached with wood screws and nails into wood. Houses.... this and that.... the drivers in your speakers...... :) If these are to be take on and off a lot then yes I think they should have more than just screws, but are the meant to be taken on and off repeatedly? A few times will not hurt. The rubber feet and spikes screw into 'nuts'. I did my positioning in my not perfect room with the spikes on. It would have been easier with the rubber feet or just the out riggers, or nothing at all. It just took a lot of lifting and setting. And lots of new 'small' holes in the carpet...lol :D


Using screws into wood is not a new and cheap practice used by builders of things. :D JMO.....


FWIW, I think the difference in the v1, v2, and v3, regarding sound is a good one. Again, JMO. :D


I can understand the 'complaint', I just wouldn't base my decision on a speaker's quality on wood screws. :p But this is just me.

Edit: Oh yeah I have lots of pro gear speakers with 'feet' and flying rigs that use wood screws and cost a bit more than these do. I have yet to have a problem with them falling from the flying rigs or the feet falling off. :)
 

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Are the feet on the 100 v.3's optional like on your old speakers?

If not, then they are not designed to be removed, and therfore being mounted directly to the wood cabinet should not be an issue.
 

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Jvries,

quick question: does Paradigm supply the ouriggers with those screw-on post rubber feet like they do for the CC-470?

Just wondering, i'm in line to pick up the 60's soon, and they'll be going on Hardwood.


Leef
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Leef DaLucky
Jvries,

quick question: does Paradigm supply the ouriggers with those screw-on post rubber feet like they do for the CC-470?

Just wondering, i'm in line to pick up the 60's soon, and they'll be going on Hardwood.


Leef
The 60's and 100's come with the rubber feet and spikes, both screw into the out riggers.
 

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I just picked up a pair of the Studio 100 v.3 and have had them set up for about 3 weeks now. All I can say is "unbelievable." The room itself is a sonic nightmare typical of newer homes...vaulted ceiling open to the 2nd floor, windows like it's going out of style, and more doorways than wall space. I figured getting these set up was going to be disastrous. Not the case. I got them unpacked (outriggers with rubber feet attached) and started moving them around. It didn't take long (a few days) to figure out where they belonged and put in the carpet spikes. I'm not sure why one would need to remove the outrigger feet when positioning their speakers not to mention why they would remove them on an even semi-frequent basis. I can understand curiosity, but it's a wood screw going into a "wood" substrate with a picture of wood over top. I think that Paradigm might have included inserts if the outriggers were designed to be removed regularly instead of going this cheaper route, but why would it be necessary? I never had the chance to A/B these beasts against the v.2's, but I can say with certainty that these speakers are absolutely excellent. I shopped around and checked out other brands and chewed it over (and over...and over...) until finally giving in to the Studio 100's during a local B&M sale. I haven't looked back with even an ounce of regret. Sure, I'd like a real wood veneer instead of a vinyl picture of wood, but it's a damn good picture! And the build quality is nothing to scoff at. They're hefty at 80+ lbs each and have an incredibly solid feel to them. Nothing hollow or cheap about them at all. I've been building furniture for almost 10 years and I have a very critical eye when it comes to build quality.


Oh, did I mention they sound incredible? Even my wife, "Mrs. I Don't Give A Crap About That Stuff", stopped and exclaimed something along the lines of "Holy ****!" when I put some decibel-based stink on 'em. They sound awesome loud or soft and have given new life to my A/V system. Now to replace all the other speakers...


J.
 

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Originally posted by DrSpike69

IMO using wood screws into wood to attach the outriggers does not make for a cheap and shoddy speaker. I am not sure how often one needs to take the out riggers off anyway. :)


Just think of all the things that are attached with wood screws and nails into wood. Houses.... this and that.... the drivers in your speakers...... :)


Using screws into wood is not a new and cheap practice used by builders of things. :D JMO.....


FWIW, I think the difference in the v1, v2, and v3, regarding sound is a good one. Again, JMO. :D


I can understand the 'complaint', I just wouldn't base my decision on a speaker's quality on wood screws. :p But this is just me.



I have to second these sentiments, being that I was the one loading, unloading, unpacking, and placing the the good Dr's speakers.


Build quality? If measured by weight alone, these definately come in towards the top of their price range. They seemed very solid and well built to me.


Regarding the sound quality, although the 100v3 was too bright for me in the showroom it was tamed a bit in Spike's listening environment. There is also a huge difference between the v3 and v2, which we auditioned a while ago, and I did not like at all.


Listening to Pink Floyd DSOTM SACD on these bad boys was really exciting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Hey Guys,


To clear up a few things: The feet on the v.3s are not meant to be removed, but the problem is not with wear and tear due to constant removal and reattachment of the feet. The problem is the fact that the feet are screwed directly into the wood of the speaker--there is no "buffer nut" (for lack of a better term) that prevents damage to the wood when these speakers are tilted, pushed, pulled or otherwise moved. These speakers weigh in at 83 lbs each, so tha'ts a fair bit of pressure at the joint when tilted. As I mentioned, after a few days of moving them around trying to find the best placement they've developed a squeak at the feet. Something that didn't happen with my older, cheaper mon 9s.


The screws on the 100 v.3 feet are metal, not wood. And yep, the 100s and 60s come with both rubber and spikes. I still think screwing the feet directly into the wood is shoddy and cheap. If I get my digital camera in time here, I'll take a few pics and you'll see what I mean.


While testing placements, I didn't remove the feet because the 100 v.3 are very narrow and the floor in my room isn't exactly flat. The speakers would probably topple over without the feet.


I can understand Paradigm trying to differentiate the studios from the signatures, but we're not talking about fancy veneer siding, piano gloss finish, or some revolutionary new driver technology... we're talking about nickle and dime nuts. It's something they provided in their middle teir version 2 Monitor speakers, so that tells me they don't consider it a "differentiater" between speaker lines... it's just a poor design!


Anyways, having said all that, let me say I still like the 100 v.3 and am happy with the purchase overall as they provide great sound and the rest of the speaker looks amazing. I will email paradigm to see what they suggest... I won't be holding my breath though.


Any 100 or 60 v.3 owners have those lock nuts or whatever they're called on their speaks?
 

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Have you thought about adding a couple of your own lock nuts to the speakers to help? It may take a little modification on your part, but would be easy enough to pull off. Granted, you shouldn't have to do it in the first place...


If you go to home depot (or Lowe's, etc) they have nuts that you can either hammer in or screw in (I would suggest the screw in, they have a thread on the outside and inside). The screws would then go into them instead of the wood and provide the support you are looking for. You may have to drill the current holes a little bigger or buy a new screw for them, but it shouldn't be a problem, especially since they are located at the bottom of the speaker. I used them for a train table I made for my daugher and they worked just fine, providing plenty of strength.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
ChrisBr,


You are on the ball! I was just about to ask if anyone would suggest doing exactly that. I'm a little hesitant because I didn't want to end up with a huge holes at the bottom of the speakers... which, with my skill, isn't so far fetched. :)


Thanks Chris, I am seriously going to try it! Then I can sell the speakers on ebay as Signature S8s.... kidding.
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by JVries
The screws on the 100 v.3 feet are metal, not wood.


I am sorry, I don't mean this to sound bad, but when wood screws were mentioned, that didn't mean they were screws made from wood. Rather metal screws that are meant for use in wood. :) I apologize if this is not what you meant by that statement.


I have a question, did you develop the squeaky feet before or after you took them off? Just curious.


How is this 'buffer nut' installed? Screwed in, glued in, pressed in? You have to attach it to the wood some how. All of these methods could have the same symptoms that you mentioned.


Being that they are not meant to be removed, using wood screws seems like a perfectly viable solution. Not a cheap way out of attaching plastic to wood. JMO.


I hope you don't take this reply wrong.
 
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