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Wondering if anyone has insight into this problem.


I receive my OTA from Philly. There are two PBS affiliates that I can receive, WNJN-DT and WHYY-DT, on UHF channels 43 and 55 respectively.


The problem occurs when I try to add both channels on the Dish 6000. After going into "Add DTV channel" and punching in the channel numbers, both stations remap the to channel 80. This seems strange, since WHYY is the digital equivilent of channel 12 and WNJN is the digital equivilent of channel 52. The problem is that since both channels map to the same number, they overwrite one another, and it is impossible to store both of them in the channel lineup at one time.


Is this a Dish issue, or a problem with the stations? Does anyone have any suggestions?
 

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BenBroder, et al:

Two of us here in Minneapolis are seeing what is probably the same problem and we think it is a Dish 6000 issue.


I will explain in detail.


jps2417 in previous post explains that channel identifier "80" identifies the PBS Hi-definition feed. This is true, but probably also identifies locally originated Hi-Def programming.


There are two issues we see from the channel 16 broadcast transmissions in Minneapolis.


1) When PBS locally (known as Twin Cities Public TV) is transmitting non HD material they send out, over channel-16, 5 sub-channels identified as 2-01 through 2-05. Channel 2 is the local TPT main NTSC channel. 2-01 through 2-05 includes the same material as channel 2 NTSC, plus 2 weather channels and two other Public Broadcast sub-channels. When and if (big if see note at end) TPT sends HD they change the identifier to 80.


This seems to cause us Dish 6000 users a big headache. Yesterday, March 14, Charlie, the other local enthusiast having a problem, sent me an E-mail that between 1pm and 1:40 pm TPT were testing HD (using a demo that had) and switched to HD and identifier 80. Charlie saw a great demo, but immediately afterwards, problems. It seems that the Dish 6000 loses the set-up info when the transmission switches back to identifier "2". Charlie had to go through the whole set-up again and reestablish 2-1 through 2-5 as the Channel 16 stations. The same thing happened to me during the Pres. Bush inauragation when TPT were re-broadcasting the Japanese NHK stuff in HD. Afterwards, I had to re-enter my channel 16 set-up. I have a theory, unproven as yet, that if, during the broadcast of HD material, one goes in and sets up a new channel 16 with identifier of 80, this problem might be solved.


2) Now another problem. Charlie watches channel 16 on subchannels 2-1 through 2-5 more frequently than I. He reported that as soon he received the Dish 6000 programming update 2 weeks ago, he had a new problem, and I have verified that the same thing happens to me.


One can no longer get digital channel 2-3 or 2-4. He hears the sound (I don't) and we both just get a black screen. But, when we go to the next channel you briefly see what is on that station and then it jumps to the next station. Prior to update, we could both receive all subchannels 2-1 through 2-5.


TPT tells us that "they are going to use subchannel 4 for widescreen and are increasing the bitrate to get close to HDTV quality." We don't know if this means 480P or what.


The big IF here in the Twin Cities is (documented in a previous post) TPT announced that they had made a deal with Times Warner whereby TW would carry all their subchannels on TW cable, and therefore they were stopping HD transmission locally. We all complained to a local TPT website. The Widescreen, mentioned above, may be a compromise?


If anyone else, with or without a 6000, sees either of these problems, please post or e-mail me.



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Dan Buchler

Minnesota
 

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This is basically NOT a Dish 6000 problem. I can't address all the details described above, but basically, as has been mentioned, the national PBS HD feed is mapped to channel 80. This was chosen to allow local PBS stations to simply pass on the signal without having to purchase additional equipment to do their own channel mapping, etc. without having channel 80 interfere with other local channels, as 80 is not one of the official DTV channels. This will cause a problem if you are able to receive more than one PBS broadcast and more than one are passing on the national signal at channel 80. I would suspect that any STB would have a problem with this situation.


KCET in Los Angeles uses 28, 59, and 80 at various times. I'm not sure I'd expect any OTA DTV tuner to be able to handle all this somewhat bizarre channel mapping correctly. The time is getting close for stations broadcasting a DTV signal to get out of test and experimentation mode and settle down into a reliable situation and stop all the channel mapping changes that can cause problems with any STB.


Jerry


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(The original Jerry G, not the new member named Jerry_G)
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by [email protected]:


I agree that it's past time for broadcasters to get the bugs ironed out of the system. Unfortunately I don't expect it to get much better very soon. At least not until the FCC enforces the rules and regulations and tells broadcasters to transmit compliant PSIP and manufacturers get consistent with their hardware.

Someday all this cool stuff will work like it's supposed to!

I agree completely. I just read an article about the Tauzin's current hearings on the DTV transition. The government is threatening regulation of this whole mess and I think it's got to occur if DTV has any chance to succeed. The differences in philosophy, desires, expectations, etc between the cable industry, the networks and issues such as copy protection, the right to record for home use, etc is so extreme that I don't think there is any way that a reasonable compromise that protects the consumer will occur without government intervention. If Bush and the FCC want to keep their hands off this issue, I think it's time for DTV to just throw in the towel. It'll never happen without governmental intervention and regulation.


Jerry



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(The original Jerry G, not the new member named Jerry_G)
 

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I'm posting this as a clarification and to remind any broadcasters here that we were advised not to discuss transmission issues in these forums as they are not welcome.


Now as a clarification, at WKPC-DT we are inserting the correct PSIP tables after our feed selector so those receivers in the WKPC-DT viewing area should not have this problem




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William Smith

Special Projects Engineer

Division of Technology Development.

KET
 

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To William Smith and Joe Carey,


I'm sure we all welcome technical information from engineers at the various stations. In fact, I'm ecstatic to see your participation. The transmission issues that were discouraged related to the 8VSB vs COFDM diatribe from a few die hard COFDM advocates who as far as I'm concerned need some psychiatric help. This does NOT apply to folks such as yourself who are offering information about PSIP, etc. We want and welcome your participation in these kinds of issues and love the knowledgeable technical information you can provide. Any information that can help the forum members improve their 8VSB reception is of course also welcome.


So to Joe and William, welcome to the forum and please feel free to discuss the transmission issues that you know we want to hear about.


Jerry



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(The original Jerry G, not the new member named Jerry_G)
 
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