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I see. You thought there was no difference between DACs . . . so you decided to conduct an experiment [I presume by buying them or asking a dealer to set it up] to see if you could hear a difference. Got it.
Wrong again, read my original post you continue to harp on. As posted earlier, this is, or was, a thought provoking thread.
 

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Discussion Starter #642
After 8 months of listening, this weekend swapped dacs in dedicated two channel system, Aerial Acoustics 7Bs biamped with Sunfire Signature 400x5. SMSL SU-8 dac uses two ES9038Q2M chips and miniDSP SHD one AK4490EQ.

With no other changes, it's obvious to these 60+ year old ears, Su-8 delivers more imaging, soundstage and detail than SHD, opposite of my expectations.
So you swapped them "by accident"? It had nothing to do with attempting to compare their sounds?
 

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Discussion Starter #643 (Edited)
D1 --> A2 --> D2 <-- some other dac.
Huh? Your home DAC, "some other DAC", used to hear File A in this test has no A to D step.

I'm not sure if you are completely getting what File A and File B (the two compared in my thread's ABX test) actually are.

File A is very simple: you listening to a song through your DAC in your home system just like you always do.

File B is more complex and goes through a lot of extra steps, including the degradation of passing through the $7.99 Apple DAC.

The question is not "Is the sound degraded?" (we know that it measurably is); the question is instead, "Is it audibly degraded to the unaided human ear, or not?"

Here is my latest update to the block diagram of the two files with the extras steps used to create File B in blue text [the following quote is of myself from an earlier post]:

Or if just using the letters A for analog and D for digital:

File A is: D --------------------------------------------------------------------->DAC in listener's system.

File B is: D -->$7.99 DAC-->RCA wire--->ADC --->USB--->laptop HDD--->DAC in listener's system.

IF Files A and B are found to be indistinguishable from each other in a listening test then all those added steps to create File B are perfect to the ear, i.e., they successfully resolve every single detail/nuance in the music and add no discernible alteration.

All the added steps (except the laptop I recorded onto) are shown here:
 

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Discussion Starter #644 (Edited)
Here is a newly labeled version of the diagram of the signal flow used to create the two files, File A and B:

3033200

Click the image to expand for easier viewing.

All the wires were coiled to keep them compact and easier to photograph, by the way.
 

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Discussion Starter #645 (Edited)
Here's another cheap one I just bought to check out. I've had it in my watch list for a couple of months and the price just fell almost in half so I decided to go for it. There are a few variations you can click on there. One's currently even a buck or so cheaper but I wanted the full size headphone jack, with an included adapter for 3.5mm plugs I believe.

I suspect it is 44kHz and 48kHz sampling rates only, but that's OK by me since I can't hear >22kHz because I'm what's called a "homo sapien".

As best as I can tell this is a true, plug and play USB DAC. The optical Toslink and coax are converted outputs not inputs. The optical can be useful if trying to connect to an audio system but you get annoying ground loop noise. The fiber optic cable (not included) does not conduct electricity so no ground loop can occur! Using this technology can really be important in some scenarios and comes in handy in a pinch.
I just tested it. Mediocre performance. Bummer. It's a shame because the fit and finish are surprisingly good for a $17 box. Its footprint is about that of an Altoids tin. Here is the internal board atop a tin, if anyone cares:
3033562
 

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I just tested it. Mediocre performance. Bummer. It's a shame because the fit and finish are surprisingly good for a $17 box. Its footprint is about that of an Altoids tin. Here is the internal board atop a tin, if anyone cares: View attachment 3033562
So mediocre is you saying not as good right?... Care to elaborate?... Explain what you heard please?

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Discussion Starter #647 (Edited)
So mediocre is you saying not as good right?... Care to elaborate?... Explain what you heard please?
I didn't bother listening to it. My measurements of it tells me everything I need to know and what music/movie material would likely trip it up:
3033563
 

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I didn't bother listening to it. My measurements of it tells me everything I need to know and what music/movie material would likely trip it up:
View attachment 3033563
So measurements are how you judge audio... Not by listening?... You concluded mediocre by measurements only?... And not by ear?... OK this makes a ton of sense.

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Discussion Starter #649
So measurements are how you judge audio... Not by listening?... You concluded mediocre by measurements only?... And not by ear?... OK this makes a ton of sense.
Measurements are how I decide how much money to bet I'm right.
 

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Measurements are how I decide how much money to bet I'm right.
But if you claim mediocre by measurements shouldn't you be able to hear mediocre?... Since you admit not even listening isn't your argument one sided?

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Discussion Starter #651
But if you claim mediocre by measurements shouldn't you be able to hear mediocre?... Since you admit not even listening isn't your argument one sided?
"Argument"? I never made any argument about this cheap Amazon $17 DAC's performance, one way or the other.
 

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"Argument"? I never made any argument about this cheap Amazon $17 DAC's performance, one way or the other.
You did by claiming mediocre by measurements only and not by listening. Like it or not nice try but you did and any rational person would agree with me.

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Discussion Starter #653 (Edited)
Maybe this will help:

My measurement software, as you can see from my posting of it, used the word "Average" as its overall summary of the general performance of this cheap Amazon/generic DAC [it does not seem to have a brand as best as I can tell] and in one category it gave it a ranking of "poor":



You seem to be participating in this thread with the purpose to antagonize and criticize in an nonconstructive manner. As I had told you earlier I am here to discuss audio science and I have no interest in wasting my time by bickering so I am now writing you off.

Bye.
 

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Maybe this will help:

My measurement software, as you can see from my posting of it, used the word "average" as its overall summary assessment and at least one category it gave a ranking of "poor".


You seem to be participating in this thread with the purpose to antagonize and criticize in an unconstructive manner. As I had told you earlier I am here to discuss audio science an have no interest in wasting my time by bickering so I am now writing you off.

Bye.
You ignore the fact you make a claim of mediocre without any listening of any kind and you get a burr up your you know what when called out on it without any reason on your part except a blatant disregard of my question. You think people will take this seriously?... Good luck Z... Good luck... I've already caught you in a dilemma you need to address and your response is putting me off as some kind of troll... That's fine but I'm still asking a legitimate question.

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Discussion Starter #655 (Edited)
I suspect it is 44kHz and 48kHz sampling rates only, but that's OK by me . . .
I was correct on this point BTW everyone. 48kHz is its top sampling rate.
 

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Think of the measurements like a higher precision tool than your ears and brain. If a DAC measures perfectly, you know there is no degradation happening and it's worth buying if the price is right. Trying to make that determination solely be ear is just using the wrong tool for the job.
 

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And this is what happens people when you question a person who thinks they know it all... And cannot describe the rational behind there so called proof. Hope you all will be careful in the future who and what you Listen too... My point is proved.

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Think of the measurements like a higher precision tool than your ears and brain. If a DAC measures perfectly, you know there is no degradation happening and it's worth buying if the price is right. Trying to make that determination solely be ear is just using the wrong tool for the job.
That's not what I asked of him.

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Discussion Starter #660 (Edited)
Think of the measurements like a higher precision tool than your ears and brain.
Look at the frequency response graph in the bass alone. The output at 20Hz is so abysmal it's off the chart, literally.
 
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