Does one need to pull a low voltage permit or speaker wire permit when installing speaker wires for a new construction? My builder said the guy who installed speaker wires inside the finished-and-painted-over wall/ceiling of my theater room had to pull a permit so he will risk his license by letting me know where the wires are so I can install the speakers myself. Is this true or just b.s to squeeze me for more money?
permit needed for speaker wires?
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Wow. That sounds like an entire dumptruck full of **** to me but honestly, I don't know. Regulations are pretty extreme in some places. I know a guy who's building a studio in his home (entirely non-commercial) and they won't let him build wooden wall frames- they have to be metal.
I am in the Boston area so subcontractor charges ridiculously cutthroat prices even for the littlest work. I wouldn't mind paying the guy $100-$200 to install four rear surround speakers (since he know where the wire is) but I am afraid to call him because he'll probably want $1000.
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Ask your question in the HT Builder sub-forum here. There are a few smart gents in the groups..especially ones like larry fine who know the NEC code better than most of us know our wives.
-tReP
-tReP
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It can vary from state to state but I believe you can do up to
48 V without a permit or qualified electrician.
48 V without a permit or qualified electrician.
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Total B.S.
If I understand your post correctly, the walls are finished and the wires are buried in there, correct? See if you can borrow someone's tone and probe set, or buy one yourself. I've seen them for as little as $30.
If I understand your post correctly, the walls are finished and the wires are buried in there, correct? See if you can borrow someone's tone and probe set, or buy one yourself. I've seen them for as little as $30.
They're a box that puts a warble tone on a wire and an inductive probe to pick up that signal so you can trace the wire in the wall. $30 would be a real deal on one, the cheapest I've ever seen one was about $60. I think I paid almost $150 for the one I used to have.
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Sometimes those in the building trade play a game. They say things that are incredibly wrong just to see if you pick it up.
I had a construction foreman sho was walking me around for a close in inspection. My builder did this to be sure all the plumbing and electrical was where I was going to want it before closing in the walls. Also to mark where I wanted the cable boxes etc.
Any way at least 5 times he stated things that were the opposite of the correct procedure, I'm sure it was a test.
One I remember was in the basement he put his hand up to the wall and said "we will be putting in insulation from here down". At the time code was to insulate down to below the frost line.
I thought about complaining to the builder but then I remembered a lesson some of my college buddies taught me long ago. They worked in a pizza joint and had a special code ...it was special deluxe. Any one who gave them a lot of grief when they ordered their pizza, got the special deluxe. I've learned to never complain BEFORE you eat your food in a restaurant.
Instead I hired an inspector to help with the final walk-through.
I had a construction foreman sho was walking me around for a close in inspection. My builder did this to be sure all the plumbing and electrical was where I was going to want it before closing in the walls. Also to mark where I wanted the cable boxes etc.
Any way at least 5 times he stated things that were the opposite of the correct procedure, I'm sure it was a test.
One I remember was in the basement he put his hand up to the wall and said "we will be putting in insulation from here down". At the time code was to insulate down to below the frost line.
I thought about complaining to the builder but then I remembered a lesson some of my college buddies taught me long ago. They worked in a pizza joint and had a special code ...it was special deluxe. Any one who gave them a lot of grief when they ordered their pizza, got the special deluxe. I've learned to never complain BEFORE you eat your food in a restaurant.
Instead I hired an inspector to help with the final walk-through.
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For new construction, in our area, it is required.
New construction is any place that does not have an occupancy permit and has not gone thorugh the inspection process.
| Originally posted by daurang Does one need to pull a low voltage permit or speaker wire permit when installing speaker wires for a new construction? |
New construction is any place that does not have an occupancy permit and has not gone thorugh the inspection process.
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I've seen them at Lowes. Home Depot might have them as well. Give Radio Shack a try. Just make sure the tone generator has clips and not just a telephone jack. You attach the clips to the wire at one end and use the probe to find the wire at the other end. The probe will start beeping louder as you get close to the wire.
Do a Google search on "probe and tone generator" and you'll see what I'm talking about. You may even find some on e-bay.
| Originally posted by daurang where can i get one? I will need it since the whole house is wired throughout. |
Do a Google search on "probe and tone generator" and you'll see what I'm talking about. You may even find some on e-bay.
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Thanx for the Kudos, Trep!
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Daurang, if, by "had to pull a permit", the builder meant that the guy didn't, I'd tell him in no uncertain terms that, since the speaker wires were "illegally" installed, if they don't tell you where they are, and accurately, that his license will be at much greater risk.
On the other hand, if he did pull a permit, I don't believe that it requires that the wirer be the one to install the speakers. I would threaten to contact a lawyer, and be ready to do so. I'm serious about this; be cordial, but extremely firm.
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| Originally posted by daurang My builder said the guy who installed speaker wires . . . had to pull a permit so he will risk his license by letting me know where the wires are so I can install the speakers myself. |
On the other hand, if he did pull a permit, I don't believe that it requires that the wirer be the one to install the speakers. I would threaten to contact a lawyer, and be ready to do so. I'm serious about this; be cordial, but extremely firm.
Thank you all for all your help. I'll force the issue on the builder tomorrow and see what he says. He has been telling me to call the guy that install my wires but I believe that guy is his subcontractor which is not mine so it's not my problem to call him and get charge a bunch of money.
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I do computer and phones for a living. One of my co workers was getting ready to move into his house and wanted to run CAT5 to all the bedrooms before the sheetrock was put up.
The GC told him he could not do it himself, as he did not have a license. He told him to talk to the Electrician. After talking over a few beers the electrician let him run it and he just came back to check it when he was done.
Try it.
| Originally posted by daurang He has been telling me to call the guy that install my wires but I believe that guy is his subcontractor which is not mine so it's not my problem to call him and get charge a bunch of money. |
The GC told him he could not do it himself, as he did not have a license. He told him to talk to the Electrician. After talking over a few beers the electrician let him run it and he just came back to check it when he was done.
Try it.
After hearing these horror stories, it just makes me appreciate my GC and electrician even more!
We built our house 2 years ago and the GC was very agreeable to letting me do my own theater wiring, telephone, data and centralized sound system. He directly subtracted the line item allowances out of the bid. The electrician even let me supply my own X-10 switches and he installed them and set the codes at no extra charge. The GC also worked with me in allowing me to supply some of my own subs as well as directly procuring a large portion of my own materials. We were able to get a couple of First Class frequent flyer tickets to Europe from material purchases for the house!
If anyone in the New Orleans area ever needs a great builder, please contact me!
We built our house 2 years ago and the GC was very agreeable to letting me do my own theater wiring, telephone, data and centralized sound system. He directly subtracted the line item allowances out of the bid. The electrician even let me supply my own X-10 switches and he installed them and set the codes at no extra charge. The GC also worked with me in allowing me to supply some of my own subs as well as directly procuring a large portion of my own materials. We were able to get a couple of First Class frequent flyer tickets to Europe from material purchases for the house!
If anyone in the New Orleans area ever needs a great builder, please contact me!
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I got a feeling that the GC use you as much as you used him. He probally learned alot of what people can do and how to do it and may use it for future jobs he has. It was probally a good win-win situation created by both of you. Glad it worked out for you.
-tReP
-tReP
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This is probably true. We were the first house he had done using ICF construction. We also spec'ed "TechShield" for the roof decking, Hurd "Heat Mirror" windows/doors, zoned AC, etc. He now recommends "TechShield" for all his better homes and uses the marble/tile sub we chose. The Hurd 8' outswing, French doors were problematic. To Hurd's credit, they finally satisfied us but we received several warped doors before they finally got them right.
We have also entertained several potential clients for him in our home so we continue to pay him back for the great working relationship we formed.
EDIT For anyone thinking of doing a ICF home, a word of caution. We received a great job but we know of two horror stories where walls were not straight, windows in the wrong place, etc. With wood frame construction things like this are fairly easy to fix but with ICF, it is a major undertaking. Carefully investigate your GC or ICF sub before going forward with this construction method.
| Originally posted by Trepidati0n I got a feeling that the GC use you as much as you used him.... -tReP |
We have also entertained several potential clients for him in our home so we continue to pay him back for the great working relationship we formed.
EDIT For anyone thinking of doing a ICF home, a word of caution. We received a great job but we know of two horror stories where walls were not straight, windows in the wrong place, etc. With wood frame construction things like this are fairly easy to fix but with ICF, it is a major undertaking. Carefully investigate your GC or ICF sub before going forward with this construction method.
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