[cvye]

Does the Princeton Graphics Ai3.6HD set have a set of component inputs for an interlaced signal, or are they just for progressive scan, or HD?

The specs I've seen label all the component inputs YpbPr, which implies that they only accept 480p and above.

This implies that interlaced signals need to enter via the composite or S-Video inputs, and that they are using the DVDO iScan V2, rather than the DVDO iScan Pro.

 

[Chard]

Hi

I'm interested in this too because I'm considering this monitor for a July purchase. As far as I know, YPbPr and YCbCr are two different ways of saying the same thing.

So, I think the first component inputs on BNC is for standard interlaced NTSC, and the signals are then processed by the internal iScan. The second set of component inputs on BNC is wideband for progressive DVD input (displayed with the DVD player's own line doubling) or HDTV STB input (displayed at the native scan rate).

Since the NTSC input has component video in addition to s-video and composite, I think (hope)that means the Ai3.6HD's internal doubler is, in fact, an equivalent to the iScanPro.

I'm not sure, so I would really appreciate confirmation or clarification on all these points by those who know better.

Thanks!

 

[PeterG]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chard: Hi Since the NTSC input has component video in addition to s-video and composite, I think (hope)that means the Ai3.6HD's internal doubler is, in fact, an equivalent to the iScanPro. I'm not sure, so I would really appreciate confirmation or clarification on all these points by those who know better. Thanks!

It uses the Iscan V2 and not the Pro.


Here is a cached link from etown which states this.

http://www.google.com/search?q=cache...=en&lr=lang_en



This makes sense as Princeton OEM the Iscan doublers and always trail the release of units from Silicon Image. For example, the latest Princeton doubler is the 1500 which is the V2 and as yet there is no Princeton rebadged Pro.


Peter

 

[Chard]

Thanks for the scoop, Peter!

So what about the Ypbpr-Ycbcr? Are they the same thing?

 

[Chard]

Regarding Ypbpr and Ycbcr, I guess they actually are in all respects the same thing. I took this quote from hometheaterhifi.com's 'Benchmark Special Report-Chroma Upsampling Error': "Depending on the color system and format, the two chroma signals may be labeled "U" and "V," or "Pb" and "Pr," or "Cb" and "Cr." These are all slightly different encoding formats, but they are all essentially the same in concept."


As for the iScanV2, the line doubling component in the Ai3.6HD, I was able to find a little more info on it's performance- some good, some bad. The same kind of good/bad experiences can also be found with owners of the new iScanPro, I noticed. Lots of people who have bought the Pro as well as the V2 have experienced some sort of glitchy behavior (flashing, shimmering, blackouts, a 'greasy film covering the image') once they got it home.


On the brighter side though, the V2 was included as a contender in "hometheaterhifi.com's Progressive DVD player shootout", and it was the ONLY product (other than the very expensive Camelot Roundtable)to receive a green "passing" grade in every single variable. Although that is only one review, it is an extensive and comparison-based one. It definitely goes a long way toward bolstering my faith in the iScanV2 being a quality doubler.


I plan on mating the Ai3.6HD with a Denon DVM-3700 interlaced 5 disc DVD carousel, an AT&T Digital cable box, and a PS2 and letting the monitor's internal V2 do all the work. How does that sound? Sounds goooood to me.

 

[Chard]

Hi,


Just clarifying. My assumption was correct regarding the 2 sets of component inputs on the Ai3.6HD. Here's a reply from Princeton Graphics:

"There are two sets of component inputs. One set of component inputs are for NTSC and the second set is for HD. The HD component inputs are not scaled. The NTSC component inputs go through the internal doubler."

Sounds pretty straightforward.

 

[cvye]

Quote:

Originally posted by Chard: Hi, "The NTSC component inputs go through the internal doubler." Sounds pretty straightforward.

Kudos to Chard for getting a response from Princeton. I tried several times calling a couple of phone numbers and leaving vm, and e-mailing their tech support...no response.

That would imply that even if they are using the DVDO V2 that they've engineered a component interface to it. Very good!

BTW, I just noticed that crazyeddie has the DVM-3700 for just over $600...dam that's cheap!

 

[Chard]

Hi again,


I've emailed the sales department with product questions several times and they've been pretty prompt about getting back to me (different person each time). I think it's because they wanna sell me something, namely an-upwards-of-three-thousand-dollar TV! Of course, as my questions became more frequent, the answers became more blunt and direct. But, answers nonetheless.

The Ai3.6HD is still at the top of my list and now I'm just waiting until I have the money. How about it, cvye? Gonna buy one? If you do, pleeeeez let me know how you like it, and where you bought it.

Thanks!

BTW- that's a very good price for the DVM-3700, and I hope by the time I'm ready to purchase one they'll be had for even less...same with the Ai3.6HD, for that matter.

 

[cvye]

I finally got a reply from Princeton Graphics:



Christian:


Thank you for your interest in Princeton. There are two sets of Component inputs. One is NTSC which does run through the DVDO/SI503 chipset. The other input is a high resolution input.


The version 503 chipset (not the box) has room for component input design as part of the architecture. Our set works similarly to the Pro unit. You have sharpness,color, and tint controls that are run through the chipset for the NTSC inputs.




Sincerely,


John





------------------

Christian Vye


-------------------------

e-mail is forever

 

[Chard]

Hi again,


That's good news to read!

But, let me get this straight. The Ai3.6HD has NTSC component inputs, those go straight into the internal line doubler, and the line doubler uses the DVDO version 503 chipset? Sounds like it has a built-in iScanPro to me! Isn't 503 the latest chipset version from Silicon Image, the same one that is inside the iScanPro?

I think the iScanPlus V2's chipset was called the DV-102 or something like that. Someone please correct me if I'm wrong. But if I'm not wrong, I'm even more psyched! July can't come soon enough!

 

[Chard]

Hi again,


I was wrong about the iScanV2's chipset. Allow me to correct myself.

This is from 'hometheaterhifi.com's Progressive DVD Player Shootout' in reference to the V2: "As you’d expect, the de-interlacing was essentially perfect. We didn’t see any really significant differences between the SIL502 chip in this unit and the SIL503 in the Camelot, but perhaps we just didn’t choose the right test to show the differences. Certainly it sailed through our tests with aplomb."

They refer to the V2 as having the "SIL502" chip. I don't know where I got the "DV-102 chipset" that I referred to in my earlier post. My bad.


And this is from the ***************, in reference to the chipset inside the iScanPro: "Silicon Image pulls a rabbit out of their hat with the introduction of the iScan Pro. First...this ain’t no V2. It does all the things that I had hoped the V2 would do and more. It has three inputs, composite, S-Video, and Component...Above all it has the new DVDO version 3 chipset for smooth film and video reproduction...let me tell you what is wrong with this unit. Ooops, wait a minute, I can’t think of one."


So, if John from PG is to be believed (and why shouldn't he be?), the Ai3.6HD does indeed share the same video-processing circuitry as the iScanPro and the much-acclaimed Camelot Roundtable: the nifty little processor known as the SIL503.

Yee-Haw! Thet thar is sum quality dubblin'!


Still Saving Up in Seattle,

Chard

 

[Chard]

Hi again,


Just to follow up on the SIL503 chipset and the Ai3.6HD (in case anyone is still interested), I sent the following email to Silicon Image the other day:


"Hi there,

I am seriously considering a Princeton Graphics Ai3.6HD for a July purchase. I understand that this monitor's line doubling component uses an SIL503 chipset with a component video input, so I am assuming it is roughly an equivalent to the iScan Pro. Many people who have purchased an outboard iScan Pro have had some issues regarding brightness, flicker, or pulsing on their display which was to be addressed with a firmware upgrade. My questions are these:

Will the chipset built into the PG Ai3.6HD need the upgrade, and if so, how would it be applied?

Will later manufacturing runs of the PG Ai3.6HD include an already upgraded chipset? Or...

Is the SIL503 chipset that's built into the PG Ai3.6HD already somehow

optimized to display on that particular monitor, making compatibility issues like these a moot point?

No Rush, but I'd really appreciate some clarification. Thank You very much for your time."

Since I don't know exactly what a "firmware upgrade" is, I realize that some of those questions may not apply. I asked them anyway and blatantly showed my ignorance.


I got this in response:

"Thank you for your e-mail to Silicon Image.

The brightness blinking problem that some customers have experienced with the iScan Pro is not related to the SiI503 chip. That means that the problem should not appear if you use a display with the SiI503 chip inside.

Sincerely,

Baptiste Marmorat

Silicon Image, Inc."


I feel this is a positive response. Although I would have liked a little elaboration on what he thought actually DID cause those problems with the outboard iScan Pro products, it does serve to reaffirm (to me, at least) that the video processing that goes on inside the PG Ai3.6HD should be glitch-free.


Regards, all!

Chard

 

[Superdad]

Dear Chard & cvye:

Lest you guys get lonley posting to this thread and thinking you are the only ones interested, I thought I'd join in. I too am planning to purchase this set (late May) after two years of reseaching, attending CEDIA, talking to industry folk (I am in the biz from the audio side). The Ai3.6HH is a lot closer cousin to the AF3.0HD than to any of Princeton's Arcadia series sets. The chassis specs and standards are supposed to be right up there with the AF3.0HD, except that the 3.6 does not use the microfilter tube.


I'll throw you one interesting tidbit: a top magazine reviewer that has the set now told me that it is quite bright even after seting the color temp down and calibrating it with AVIA to not bloom and to show a good needle pulse, etc. It had not yet received a full gray-scale calibration, but he did say he was somewhat shocked at how bright it is even with 1080i material (Sampo owners don't have it that good, though their sets do have a nice flat tube with finer dot pitch).


Also, I have been told by Princeton that you can use a regular full-size IR keyboard (from CompUSA or wherever) in place of or addition to the best-of-neither world thing that it comes with. I'll probably program a small learning remote for TV and DVD use and then use a regular keyboard if I actually go to use the Ch. 1 net feature stuff (probably I'll just hook a PC or Mac up to the thing eventually so I can use my own software and be on my home Ethernet.


One minor disappointment is that the picture-in-piture only works when you are using the Ch.1 as the big background. That is, you can not do picture over DVD or pic over RGB PC input.


I'll let you know how it goes when I get it. Thanks for your fine posts earlier.

Cheers,

ALEX.

 

[Chard]

Hey all,


I just wanted to direct your attention to this post from the 'ilovehdtv.com' "HDTV News Forum" archives.


"This article authored by Dale on 4/22/01 at 4:20 PM.

If anyone is contemplating buying ANYTHING from The Digital Connection, here is my experience with them.

On 3/5/01, I ordered a Sony GDM-FW900, and a Princeton Ai3.6HD HDTV ready TV. I received the Princeton 2 weeks later, after it had been handled by 3 different freight companies, none of which can be tracked by the consumer online. I had been told 5 business days. It was DOA(Dead on Arrival) with no external damage. I returned it 3/27/01 via 1 carrier, and it was received on 4/3/01. My credit card was not refunded until 4/17/01, 2 weeks later (during which my emails, faxes, and phone calls were ignored). Of note, I received a sales receipt dated 3/5/01 but POSTMARKED 4/4/01 that showed I had only paid 2450 for the Princeton, which is listed at 2799 on their website, digitalconnection.com. I had purchased 2 monitors that day, the Princeton and the Sony, for which they were asking 2200. I was given a discount for buying them both at the same time - 4800 for both. However, the sales receipt (which was sent only after I informed them I was returning the Princeton) showed that I had only paid 2450 for the Princeton and 2350 (full MSRP) for the Sony. So, it appears that the numbers were juggled to decrease the refund.

I am already out over 600 in shipping charges, not including the 350 not refunded. I don't know if what they did is legal or not, but I wanted to let people on this board know about it before someone else gets burned."


Hopefully the Ai3.6HD arrived DOA due to disrespectful shipping handlers and not because of any product quality issues. Any comments?


Regards All,

Chard

 

[cvye]

You must be relieved at the end of your decision process!

Well I just decided against the Princeton monitors too. I'm going with a Panasonic DT-M3050W instead.

I also was one of those crazies who went for the Skyworth, and I can tell you that the Skyworth blows away my Denon DVM-3700 in resolution - the Avia sharpness pattern is dead-on (no shimmering), and the 6.75 resolution pattern is quite distinct - a blur in the Denon. So at some point, you just might want to upgrade the video of your system - but keep the 3700, by all means, for music.


------------------

Christian Vye


-------------------------

e-mail is forever

 

[Chard]

Hey there,


Well after all this research I went and bought a Sony KV36XBR450. Go figure.


The XBR450's new DRC line doubler performs 3:2 pulldown, which was the main reason I didn't consider the XBR400. The biggest drawback to the Princeton was the fact that nowhere could I see one before I bought it. Even the dealers semi-locally that carried Princeton had to special-order it for me. I also got the XBR450 for about 500 less than the lowest price I found for the Princeton. 720p? Sony doesn't have it. Built-in Ch1 internet and funky keyboard remote? Nope. Vertical raster collapse? Yes. Free five year in-home warranty? Yes, but believe me I had to haggle for it. I was also buying a Denon THX receiver and a Denon 5-disc DVD changer, so I had some finanical leverage with the sales manager for haggling purposes.


The XBR450 had a great image with the sources the shop was feeding it, and I got to play around a lot with the features. It's a Cool TV. Don't get me wrong, the Ai3.6HD is a sophisticated monitor, and in a lot of ways I simply gave in to Sony. This was a long and expensive buying process and I'm glad it's over. Now it's time to play.


Thanks all for the input and good luck,

Chard