[BadOnTheMoon]

Hello to everyone in this wonderful forum!


I'm Marco from italy and after a very long lurking period reading the most detailed and intersting software reviews and opnion ever found on the net, i decided to begin posting here too.


in this first message, i'd really like to advise all the owners of the high debated Episode 1 DVD (especially thoose who, just like myself, complained about the laking audio quality) about the incredible, far superior sound impact of the English region 2 Pal edition of this DVD (yes, i own them both). I simply couldn't believe how much of an improvement from the region 1 flat, mid bass/bass lacking and low recording level and little overall sound pressure (i'm not considering LFE channel) it was. The front soundstage in R2 UK version is immensely louder and larger, the sound more and more crisp, the effects far more realistic and powerful, the center speaker has a higher dialogue level, while the rears offer the same great effects heard in the R1. I can guarantee the impression is that of hearing a completely different movie with a new sound balancing and equalizing and i couldn't believe how this could have happened (not to mention the fact that PAL image has a very small amount of EE).


So i wanted to recommend all the most audiophile and disappointed "Star wars" fans here in the Forum, to buy THIS version as fast as they can, if they want to defenetely hear this awesome soundtrack how it was really meant to be.


Bye!!

 

[Gertjan]

Hi,


Thanks for the heads-up! It sounds like something Bjoern Roy should run his analysis on. I'd be really curious to see what his findings are, both on the video and the audio.


Btw - i'm pretty new to being region-free now with my HTPC, where before i could only do region 1 with my DVD player.


I'm suspecting that PAL DVDs would have a higher resolution...? Is this true?


Where can i easily buy DVDs from other regions? Anybody have any good pointers?


Thanks


Gertjan

 

[Frank J Manrique]

BadOnTheMon,


May I ask how did you arrive to such conclusions? What brand and how many infrabass units do you use? How much power feeding them?


I don't doubt your veracity; is just that I've very recently heard the R1 version and found bass to sound very low in frequencies reach, with excellent amplitude response...while playing at reference levels and as produced by EIGHT SVS 46/16 subwoofers (driven by 1200 watts per channel into 4 ohms nominal), crossed over to the mains at 60 Hz., and which are part of my HT system.


Tom Vodhanel's analysis results of the SW:TPM DVD soundtrack can be found on SVS' website. They seem to closely correlate with my own aural assessments quite well. You might want to check the site out.


However, you have picked my curiosity enough that I just might order an R2 PAL version for comparisons, particularly since you assert there seems to be much less amounts of that odious EE present in the transfer...


-THTS

 

[Don O’Brien]

Marco,

welcome to the forum.


Is your pre/pro or receiver able to indicate to you the dialnorm setting on the R1 disk and compare it to the R2 disk. I am sure that somebody will do a comparison to the LD, but until then I would guess that a large part of this may be related to a comparison based on a fixed volume setting vs. true level matching.


Frank,

you are a bass madman. How have you physically located the subs in your room? 8 tubes of 46 inch length and 16 inch diameter tuned to 16hz is truly awesome. It is nice to know that many others appreciate the infrasonic region and lowest 2 octaves.

 

[KennyG]

It could be possible that your equating loudness with quality.

I was taken back by the overall db level of this disc myself, it has to be turned up above my normal settings.

However, once you turn it up this R1 soundtrack it very, very good, one of the best in my opinion.

My system is what most would consider near the highend, and I came from the audio end of home entertainment, so good sound is very familiar to me...This is good sound.

The bass in this ST drops very deep, everything else to crystal clear and well placed. Most importantly for me, the bass isn't so overblown that it bloats everything in the midbass (a common problem with alot of soundtracks)


I do wonder why they chose to lay this track down at such a low level...if you get a db meter out and listen to the R2 disc at your normal level, then set the R1 disc to that level, I wonder if perhaps you might hear the same things???

 

[KennyG]

P.S. welcome to the forum!

 

[Frank J Manrique]

Don O,


The SVS octet is placed as close to one corner of the HT room as is physically possible...behind the 12 foot wide screen. This was done to conform to Tom Nousine's and Tom Vodhanel's suggestions for subwoofer placement; it seems to work just fine.


That many tubes take a lot of space, but I think there is still room enough for the addition of at least another sub if I decide to go ahead and bi-amp the center channel.


What can I say, Don? Love 'em low end frequencies...even if I am an audiophile...


-THTS

 

[David600]

Frank my friend


arn't we nuts ? one day, perhaps in the next 2years, I plan to go this way:

250" screen (curved, high gain but what projector??)

cinematrix-scaler

3 JBL 4675C THX mains (230lbs, 7ft high, 2400w)

8 JBL 4645C subs, stacked together on same infinite line , 1000w each clean power (should get me 145db @ 20hz )

12 surrounds

24seats on 3 levels (floor, to get sucked in by the subs + 2levels)

QSC DCA amps


then I'll be able to rest.........


argh!!!


we are nuts!

 

[Frank J Manrique]

Dave600,


My friend...are you opening an IMAX theater?


You know, some of 'em JBL THX horny systems will eventually find a home at my humble abode. I just can't shake the way they prodigiously reproduce most bass and upper frequency regions; truly awesome!...


-THTS

 

[David600]

hey


sort of ! I'll need a 8meters by 12meters room for sure, at least! and 3.5meters high too or more


got a friend who is setting up his system with 3 3678, 2 4645C and 6 8330 JBL, with QSC DCA 1644 amps. nice !

 

[Frank J Manrique]

Dave600,


Right on, my friend. Go for it!!...


-THTS

 

[Rachael Bellomy]

Does the fur-in D-Vay-D have the original film or the same director's cut as we got? Frank, pick up a copy of the LD. On my X9 the colour on the LD equals the DVD. Your LD-S2 should do OK with it. It has a few more bad edges than the DVD...Otherwise, it's about equal. There's a limit to ow good this film can look anyway! Seeing it in theatre told me that. The LD is the original film, sound included, me thinks. The LD is how it sounded @ the theatre IMO. Surely, this is the best time ever to buy the LD too! See what your subs can do with the LD. I think it's the best sounding LD, period.

Start a Kalaforie quake!


Hi David! You should see the X9 render the LD. There's some edge enhancement too, or what passes as such. There's not as much as the DVD. I thought the DVD would really beat the LD badly on the submarine ride animation. It didn't. If I had to give up one or the other, it would be the DVD. There are limits to how good this film can look, me thinks.


Oh, Frank, I'm listening to the DVD of George Benson absolutely live as I write this, actually watching it too, on half the sreen. It's a real joy!!! Best wishes!

 

[Rice Rocket]

FWIW, dialnorm on the R1 EP1 DVD is set at +27.

 

[clehner]

I just wanted to add that everybody should be aware that PAL DVDs ALL suffer from the 4% speed up due to the conversion of 24 Film frames to 25 frames (to be able to end up with 50 fields).

That makes IMHO all considerations whether R2 is sound wise better than R1 absolutly groundless.


Cheers

Christoph

 

[Roland Wandinger]

Quote:

I just wanted to add that everybody should be aware that PAL DVDs ALL suffer from the 4% speed up due to the conversion of 24 Film frames to 25 frames (to be able to end up with 50 fields). That makes IMHO all considerations whether R2 is sound wise better than R1 absolutely groundless.

As you state correctly: IMHO (in YOUR opinion!)

The 4% speed-up does not have any effect on soundquality whatsoever!


My R4 PAL copy has been dispatched yesterday from www.ezydvd.com so it will be some time till I can compare it to my LD. I might rent the R1 to make a comparison.

Quote:

(not to mention the fact that PAL image has a very small amount of EE).

Someone claimed that the R2 version of Cast Away also has a lot less EE than the R1. Could it be that EE is more used on NTSC DVDs than on PAL DVDs for some reasons?

 

[CKNA]

PAL 4% speed up is there always, so you can't compare sound quality. It does not matter if it is pitch corrected, (BTW pitch correction lowers audio quality even more because pieces of sound are taken out, it is like data reduction) everything is still too fast and that makes it further from original filmmaker vision. I highly doubt it sounds better. People in PAL countries always think that everything PAL is better. TPM DVD was mastered for NTSC and PAL at the same facility using the same source and then during mastering sound was speeded up by 4% for PAL release.


Quote:

The 4% speed-up does not have any effect on soundquality whatsoever!

Yes it does. If you can't hear it then you are either deaf or just used to speed up.


True, PAL has higher vertical resolution so on a big screen it may look a little better, but it flickers terribly. Everybody knows though that the higher frame rate is always better. NTSC 3:2 pulldown can create judder but using progressive scan film mode it is eliminated.



PAL cannot sound better if it is done from the same source because of 4% speed up and simple laws of physics.



NTSC-PAL debates are stupid. They both have many bad sides.

They usually turn into American bashing. I worked in television in Europe as well as US and will take NTSC 90% of the time. When I worked in Europe I thought that PAL was better. When I came to US and saw properly done NTSC I could not believe that it could look this good. NTSC is also much better in post production because it is easier to edit, easier to sync audio and most of all easier to compress using MPEG2. Please also remember that NTSC color television started in 1950 when there was almost no TV in Europe. I think that Germans did a pathetic job developing PAL because they were 15 years behind and only added 100 vertical lines and screwed up audio by lowering frame rate. PAL broadcasts did not start until 1968. Before that Europe used 405 line monochrome television. US TV had 525 lines from the very first day even when it was B&W.


BTW, I will order Region2 PAL TPM and "try" to compare sound since it is impossible due to speed up.

 

[CKNA]

Quote:

(not to mention the fact that PAL image has a very small amount of EE).

Not according to this site, http://www.bulletsnbabesdvds.com/sec...ticle&artid=20


Here is the quote:
Quote:

The Phantom Menace (Any Version) has significant Edge Enhancement throughout. Most easily seen is during the Pod Race as QuiGon, Jar Jar, Shmi, and Amidala are raised up in the viewing tower. You'll see halos around them as they are raised, also the shots of the Pod Racers on the Grid have a lot of EE particularly around the pipes. Another easy to see sequence is Amidala on her throne with the white glass windows behind her. These windows have massive edge enhancement, making them appeared panelled when in fact they are plain. The halos make it look like something they're not.

 

[Neil Jenkins]

and Bullets n Babes is my website. So to fan the flames this link:
http://www.bulletsnbabesdvds.com/article.php?sid=573


Is a full comparison review of R1 R2 and R4.


Personally I cannot hear any difference in the different sound mixes. The Pal mixes are slightly faster and we already know that the mixes are recorded slightly lower than one would expect.


The EE is terrible.


Regards Neil.

 

[CKNA]

Neil,


Your website is the best as far as DVD reviews. I hope you do not mind me quoting you in this thread.

 

[David600]

CKNA


hi


I agree 100% with you . and I live in Belgium but always bought my US movies on ntsc laserdiscs, almost never in a PAL version. I'm very sensitive to pal speed up too, since I have a big collection of US/UK movies soundtracks: it forms the ears to the right tempo !


ntsc dvds most of the time as so much better encoded ( for many reasons: better encoders, better original source material, better hardware etc).


the only "advantage " of pal sometimes is the slightly visible improvement in vertical line resolution but the flicker annoys me too.