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Bryan, I found a balanced 3-way splitter in my box that's rated -5. I saw one on Amazon that's a balanced -7. I'll admit I don't know the difference and never had a reason to learn just what those numbers mean. FWIW, back when I had a VCR, I used to spilt my cable 2 ways and then 1 of the lines 2 more ways and never had any problems. Even after I got the DVR, the VCR stayed connected and used when there was a 3-way conflict before On Demand finally got enough networks to participate.

 

EDIT: My coax is only split 3 ways outside, but all 3 go to different rooms.
 

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With the VCR and Analog, signal levels were not that critical. With Digital a 1 dB difference could mean all or nothing. As long as you do not drop much below -7 dB you should be fine, -10dB might even work, but when the temp reaches 115 that will drop even further by a few dB


A balanced 3 way should actually be -5.5dB per leg, Does it have a frequency rating of 1GHz or higher?

Unbalanced are much more common.


For the MoCA to work efficiently any splitter between the TiVo and the Mini needs to be rated at least 1GHz (2GHz would be better) any splitter not marked with it's specs is a potential issue.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24698829


With the VCR and Analog, signal levels were not that critical. With Digital a 1 dB difference could mean all or nothing. As long as you do not drop much below -7 dB you should be fine, -10dB might even work, but when the temp reaches 115 that will drop even further by a few dB


A balanced 3 way should actually be -5.5dB per leg, Does it have a frequency rating of 1GHz or higher?

Unbalanced are much more common.


For the MoCA to work efficiently any splitter between the TiVo and the Mini needs to be rated at least 1GHz (2GHz would be better) any splitter not marked with it's specs is a potential issue.
Yes, it is 1GHz and is -5.5 per leg. I didn't see any 2GHz 3-ways yet, but I only checked Amazon fairly quickly. I remember now the discussion we had about levels back in the early days and what you mentioned matches what I remember of those discussions. I guess I'll find out soon enough.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24699027


Yes, it is 1GHz and is -5.5 per leg. I didn't see any 2GHz 3-ways yet, but I only checked Amazon fairly quickly. I remember now the discussion we had about levels back in the early days and what you mentioned matches what I remember of those discussions. I guess I'll find out soon enough.
Dave,

I did some testing just for you.

I installed a 2-way (-3.5dB) splitter on my Roamio Pro to test MoCA w/ the Mini and lower signal levels.


My Tuner signal dropped to around -7 dB and the Tuning Adapter FDC dropped to -10 dB. The drop in FDC signal w/ the introduced MoCA noise caused the Tuning Adapter to fail tuning requests.


I installed a MoCA POE filter on the Tuning Adapter (as the Cox install sheet shows) and this fixed the TA failed tuning issues. So, I would now recommend placing a MoCA POE filter on the TA.


I had never tried out the Ethernet + MoCA bridged network on the TiVo, but it was easy to set-up and seems to work well, even at those low signals.


A quick note about MoCA, If you do not place a POE Filter on the outside tap, you potentially introduce noise back into the Cox lines, you also leave your home network potentially vulnerable to being hacked. The TiVo does have the ability to set-up MoCA encryption, which you should do after you're done setting everything up and testing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24699527



Dave,

I did some testing just for you.

I installed a 2-way (-3.5dB) splitter on my Roamio Pro to test MoCA w/ the Mini and lower signal levels.


My Tuner signal dropped to around -7 dB and the Tuning Adapter FDC dropped to -10 dB. The drop in FDC signal w/ the introduced MoCA noise caused the Tuning Adapter to fail tuning requests.


I installed a MoCA POE filter on the Tuning Adapter (as the Cox install sheet shows) and this fixed the TA failed tuning issues. So, I would now recommend placing a MoCA POE filter on the TA.


I had never tried out the Ethernet + MoCA bridged network on the TiVo, but it was easy to set-up and seems to work well, even at those low signals.


A quick note about MoCA, If you do not place a POE Filter on the outside tap, you potentially introduce noise back into the Cox lines, you also leave your home network potentially vulnerable to being hacked. The TiVo does have the ability to set-up MoCA encryption, which you should do after you're done setting everything up and testing.
Thanks for doing that Bryan, that's above and beyond. It's going to really help going in to know what to look for if I run into problems so I don't get too frustrated. :) I had planned to initially connect things just like the Cox diagram says. It also tells me I definitely need to move the 8300 to the bedroom until I at least get the Roamio set up to record in the family room and not miss any recordings. For that reason alone, I might wait until next Saturday morning to start setting things up. There are a lot of season finales next week that I don't want to chance missing.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24699814


My goodness this is getting complicated.
I see now why Cox requires a professional install on their Whole Home DVR that uses MoCA, and all the potential issues that can arise.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24699814


My goodness this is getting complicated.
Actually, It sounds a lot worse than it's going to be because most readers probably haven't looked at the diagrams. The connection instructions are easy enough to follow and I've got no concerns about that part of this. It's definitely not Plug n' Play though, is it?

 

I'll also admit that I didn't expect it to get this involved, even after I looked at the diagrams. I never considered signal strength and if push comes to shove I'll get another line put in for the modem, though I'm not sure who to call to get that done. I'm sure Cox will run a new line, but that means they'll run it outside along the eaves or the side of the house rather that fish it through the attic with the others. But, I just took a look outside and there are 4 cables coming out of the Cox box going into the house and I've only got 3 rooms connected. That must mean there is a 4th cable dead ended up in the attic somewhere. I'll look this weekend to see if I can find it. Hopefully, they dead ended it on this side of the firewall between the house and the garage. If not, I guess I'll have to go in to the attic above the garage for the first time since we had the house built. I fished speaker wires to where the cable outlet is in the family room, so I should be able to fish a second cable line if I can find where it dead ends.
 

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Discussion Starter #10,989

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bryan_CoxPHX  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24699958



I see now why Cox requires a professional install on their Whole Home DVR that uses MoCA, and all the potential issues that can arise.
And I'm going to ask about that when I run up to get the CC and TA. I know they won't install the TiVo, but they will fix the signals if I need that done. Since I just noticed there is a 4th line coming onto the house, I'll ask them about finding out where it goes and redirecting it to the family room for the modem. Believe it or not, I did take videos every Sunday while the house was being built and I may have the cable runs on one of those.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24700084



And I'm going to ask about that when I run up to get the CC and TA. I know they won't install the TiVo, but they will fix the signals if I need that done. Since I just noticed there is a 4th line coming onto the house, I'll ask them about finding out where it goes and redirecting it to the family room for the modem. Believe it or not, I did take videos every Sunday while the house was being built and I may have the cable runs on one of those.

Videos? Excellent work! Those are/will be invaluable.


All I can offer in all of this is my experience with the basic Roamio and it was a breeze to install and configure. Particularly in terms of the interface for setting up/managing recordings. It is light years ahead of the Cox DVR GUI (actually, I wouldn't even classify that as a GUI). As friendly and intuitive as it is, I still needed some time to get comfortable with it - I found (for me) that there's a lot going on on a lot of the screens so I had to slow down and look at the entire screen at times.


Also, one bonus (at least for OTA), and maybe for Cable, there is not six day limit for going out in time on the Guide! Discovering that was way cool. I think it goes out at least a month, maybe more, again OTA. Maybe Cox limits it to six days on the CC, not sure.


Anyway I'll be real interested to follow this saga.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24700125



Videos? Excellent work! Those are/will be invaluable.


All I can offer in all of this is my experience with the basic Roamio and it was a breeze to install and configure. Particularly in terms of the interface for setting up/managing recordings. It is light years ahead of the Cox DVR GUI (actually, I wouldn't even classify that as a GUI). As friendly and intuitive as it is, I still needed some time to get comfortable with it - I found (for me) that there's a lot going on on a lot of the screens so I had to slow down and look at the entire screen at times.


Also, one bonus (at least for OTA), and maybe for Cable, there is not six day limit for going out in time on the Guide! Discovering that was way cool. I think it goes out at least a month, maybe more, again OTA. Maybe Cox limits it to six days on the CC, not sure.


Anyway I'll be real interested to follow this saga.
I've already used them a few times for other things, but I don't know if I got the cable runs before the ceilings went up. :)

 

I don't expect to have any real problems getting the Roamio set up unless I run into signal problems. The connections we've been discussing are no worse than all the cables need for my surround receiver, subwoofer, etc.

 

I've known how much better the TiVo interface is from when it was offered by DirecTV. My reluctance to get one has purely been because I never needed to. Out of pocket costs was always a factor in addition to my dislike of the company. To be completely honest, I've always thought the TiVo's for cable, up to the Roamio models, were somewhat of a kludge. I still think the TA is a kludge, but I'm past arguing the merits of that. Howeve,r the price with the discount was reasonable enough so the payback will be in a timeframe I'm okay with. I also expect there to be a learning curve and a lot more options to check out. Given that I'm getting a Pro with so much storage, I'll probably even take advantage of more of those options than I would have with less storage. I'm not one for suggested programs, but I'll probably even give that a try as well as using some of the filters to find movies, etc., on TCM and other channels that I don't often look at in the guide unless I have the time.

 

AFAIK, the guide will go out about 2 weeks and that is a definite plus. Oftentimes I see an ad for something on Sunday that will be broadcast next Sunday and have to make a note to enter it into my recording schedule before then. With the TiVo, I'll be able to schedule it right away. I've never doubted how robust and useful the TiVo interface is, but I never "needed" it and really still don't. However, now that I'll have it, I'll make as much of it as I can. I'm sure I'll have a lot of questions and I'll probably ask them here after I check on the TiVo Community site.

 

As for following this saga, I'll probably PM Bryan if I run into any serious trouble and eventually post how things went here. :)
 

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Well, well. I went to the Cox Store after lunch today and was in/out in under 5 minutes with the M-Card and Tuning Adapter in a rather nice large canvas shopping bag. A rep met me at the door and I didn't even have to take a number. I don't know if that happens often, but it was a welcome relief compared to the old days when the lines were long and slow at the old 59th/Bell location. Now if only everything else goes as smoothly.

 

EDIT: I have to tell you too that the installation guide they gave me makes no mention of the splitting the cable or a POE and I just noticed there wasn't one included. Both the M-Cad and Tuning Adapter are new, but the TA came shrink-wrapped rather than in a box. I know it's new because it still has the plastic covering the display, the connectors are fresh and the power block/cord were in a sleeve. The installation guide online mentions all that and says the POE should be in the package. So, I guess things didn't go as smooth as I thought and I'll have to stop back up there after I get my granddaughter from school in a few minutes.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24701940


Well, well. I went to the Cox Store after lunch today and was in/out in under 5 minutes with the M-Card and Tuning Adapter in a rather nice large canvas shopping bag. A rep met me at the door and I didn't even have to take a number. I don't know if that happens often, but it was a welcome relief compared to the old days when the lines were long and slow at the old 59th/Bell location. Now if only everything else goes as smoothly.


EDIT: I have to tell you too that the installation guide they gave me makes no mention of the splitting the cable or a POE and I just noticed there wasn't one included. Both the M-Cad and Tuning Adapter are new, but the TA came shrink-wrapped rather than in a box. I know it's new because it still has the plastic covering the display, the connectors are fresh and the power block/cord were in a sleeve. The installation guide online mentions all that and says the POE should be in the package. So, I guess things didn't go as smooth as I thought and I'll have to stop back up there after I get my granddaughter from school in a few minutes.

C'mon Dave, this is Cox, your "friend" in the digital age, i.e.: par for the course. (sorry to any Cox employees)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24702341



C'mon Dave, this is Cox, your "friend" in the digital age, i.e.: par for the course. (sorry to any Cox employees)
Now, now, anyone can make a mistake and I admit I didn't tell him I was connecting a Mini. I also got in a hurry and didn't go through my checklist before I left. I just got back and it took less time to get the extra box with the splitter, POE and another cable without any hassle whatsoever. I don't know about you, but I would have had a longer time just checking out at Best Buy and then dealing with customer service to get the extra stuff. I think Cox did a great job and I told him so. :)
 
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Got home after taking my wife to get her throat scoped and the box with the Roamio and Mini were in the family room as scheduled, they came while we were gone and my daughter signed for them. All I need to do now is clear off the TV and cabinet, move them away from the wall and connect things up. I'm going to start with just the Roamio and hope to get it working before the Season Finales on CBS start at 7:00. If it goes smoothly and I have time, I'll add the Tuning Adapter and Cable Card. At that point, if something goes wrong with Cox, I should still be able to watch/record unencrypted channels until things get fixed. Then I can work on the Mini the next day, though that should just be a matter of connecting things and turning the Mini on. Now that it's here, I'm getting anxious and don't want to wait until Saturday. :)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24712243


Got home after taking my wife to get her throat scoped and the box with the Roamio and Mini were in the family room as scheduled, they came while we were gone and my daughter signed for them. All I need to do now is clear off the TV and cabinet, move them away from the wall and connect things up. I'm going to start with just the Roamio and hope to get it working before the Season Finales on CBS start at 7:00. If it goes smoothly and I have time, I'll add the Tuning Adapter and Cable Card. At that point, if something goes wrong with Cox, I should still be able to watch/record unencrypted channels until things get fixed. Then I can work on the Mini the next day, though that should just be a matter of connecting things and turning the Mini on. Now that it's here, I'm getting anxious and don't want to wait until Saturday.

Exciting! Hope you didn't stay up all night.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Oakley  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24713123



Exciting! Hope you didn't stay up all night.
Not at all, haven't even started yet and won't until around 9:00, after I take my granddaughter to school and run through my daily exercises. Then it will be just to move things so I can get at them, probably won't actually connect the cable until after lunch.
 

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SUCCESS!!

 

Roamio Pro is all connected and working as advertised, I'm watching an NCIS Season Pass recording now. Setup was fairly smooth. I had no trouble connecting things, calling Cox to get the Cable Card and Tuning Adapter activated. It went so well that Nancy and I talked about the early days of computers and punched cards. :)  I did get a little ahead of myself on the TA, not waiting long enough to let it do it's thing. I was just about to call Cox when I noticed the light had stopped blinking. I connected the USB and AFAIK I'm receiving all the SDV channels I'm entitled to. I even have the device entered into my Harmony remote and will do further testing of that tomorrow.

 

I am dealing with one hiccup though and that's with the Mini, it won't connect to the MoCA network to "talk" to the Roamio Pro. I think I know what the problem is, and Bryan agrees, so tomorrow I will connect it directly to the network via Ethernet so it can be updated. Then I'll move it back tot he bedroom and see what happens. If it still won't connect, then I'll check the specs on the outside splitter. If that's not 1GHz, I'll replace it, or get it replaced, and go from there.

 

I told Bryan about one disappointment I had with moving around the guide grid, but he suggested I give the Live Guide option a try and I like it. When I first saw it, I didn't like it, but that's only because I was busy and really didn't even look at it before switching to the same old grid Cox uses.

 

Likes so far:

30 second skip

Direct access to Netflix, Amazon and YouTube.

Guide containing 2 weeks of data

 

Dislikes:

No clock on the display, but I'll get used to using one of the other clocks my wife has in the room and Info brings up the time as part of the data shown

 

I'm sure everyone is wondering how much better I think it is than the Cox DVR. Well, I've got to be honest, so far it's pretty much what I expected. Compared to the junk Cox used to use (SARA), it's way ahead, However, compared to Passport, it's not that far ahead for standard recording actions. Where it shines is in all the extras it brings to the table. I'm already able to manage recordings via my phone much better than I could with Cox. Cox records all of Masterpiece Classics and I'm hopeful the Roamio will let me limit things to just Downton Abbey.

 

I did lose my 1st recording earlier today. The remote has the playback buttons in the same location as the navigation buttons on the Harmon, so I kept hitting them instead of the navigation buttons higher up on the Roamio remote. That's the main reason I took some time to update the Harmony and so far, so good. :)

 

All in all, a nice day with very little frustration, far fewer than I expected, which is exactly what I told Nancy from Cox. :)

 

Do I regret waiting this long? No, absolutely not. Cox has worked just fine for me all these years and I don't regret staying with them or hanging on to the 8300 so long. But, I can't say I'm not happy with the change, I am. Once I get the Mini working correctly, I'll be even happier. After that, 2 years from now I'll be that much happier because I'll have recouped my basic costs. Two years more and it'll only cost $2/mo for the CC.

 

Oh, and I should mention things are going well with my diet. It's not as hard to manage my carbs as I thought it would be. My wife is 1 step closer to getting her problems resolved too, so life is pretty good right now.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by DoubleDAZ  /t/451563/phoenix-az-hdtv/10980#post_24716411


Dislikes:

No clock on the display, but I'll get used to using one of the other clocks my wife has in the room and Info brings up the time as part of the data shown


I'm already able to manage recordings via my phone much better than I could with Cox. Cox records all of Masterpiece Classics and I'm hopeful the Roamio will let me limit things to just Downton Abbey.

Here is what I use for clock. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-White-LED-Black-Wood-Wooden-Digital-Alarm-Clock-Rectangle-USB-AAA-/291124981128?pt=US_Clocks&hash=item43c866ad88


Nope on the Downton Abbey VS Masterpiece Classic in my experience.
 

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So Dave, here is a question that relates to anyone switching to a new DVR. I'm assuming that the 8300 had recordings that you hadn't gotten to yet. How are you dealing with that? Are you keeping the 8300 for some sort of overlap period? We lost a bunch of material when I upgraded to a new Cox DVR last year. I've been thinking of upgrading once again to the 6 tuner box but am not excited about losing what amounts to a whole lot of programming on the current one.
 
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