[ablegoy]

I have a Piano HE-3200 projector connected to my dvd-player via svideo. Mostly I am very satisfied with the picture quality, even though I know I have exceeded the recommended size of the screen at 110"


There is one thing that really bothers me though, the motion artefacts! Whenever the camera pans or tilts at some speed, the image degrades quite noticeably. This is especially evident in dark scenes such as in Fellowship of the Ring and even more so in Under Siege... I love the works of horror-maestros such as Dario Argento, but sweeping camera movements (one of his trademarks) look really bad!


Would it help to get a better dvd-player and hook it up via component? Or is this something I'll just have to live with? I haven't done any tweaks, the projector is "out of the box". I seem to have read that the 3200 would be better than the 3100 at reproducing smooth images even in motion, so is there any tweaks I could do to improve this??


Any input would be much appreciated!! Piano-users please HELP!!

 

[lyndonlim]

I have experienced exactly what you are talking about and have found a solution. Don't worry the disease is largely curable. Use the Search function on this facility and do a search under " Piano" or "DVI". You can read all abt my complains and the key solution. In a nutshell, you will need to throw your DVD player out the window as the processor in the Piano suxs at controlling motion artifacts....which many Piano owners either do not notice or are not admitting to it.


You'll need to get a HTPC (a bit more research required again), use the DVI input of your PJ to get a true digital signal from the HTPC, you will get a 35% lift in every aspect of your picture quality. Sharpness jumps to another level, picture stability and perceived depth of field improves, and most of all motion artifact is reduced to such a level that it becomes a none issue.


The Piano sux inthe motion artifact arenamore so than its competitors such as the Sim HT200, Sharp 9000.


Don't worry you are able to solve the problem without spending too much. HTPC is a very cost effective solution relative to another medium end DVD player or external scaler like the Iscan pro.

 

[audible]

ablegoy, I auditioned the Piano several times before ending up with the InFocus X1 and this was one area I found fault with, the only other issue was the Piano's inability to reproduce reds correctly. The image was spectacular except for the these problems. I viewed it on a 100" screen but the dealer suggested that 82" wide was more appropriate. I don't know if that would help but I thought this might be an issue with all DLP projectors. After viewing my X1 at 104" wide I'm glad it's not. It could have to do with brightness as the Piano has an output of 450 lumens as opposed to about 700 lumens of the X1 in video mode. I'd be curious and would appreciate feedback as I found the Piano to be an excellent machine otherwise.

 

[audible]

Quote:

Originally posted by lyndonlim ...In a nutshell, you will need to throw your DVD player out the window as the processor in the Piano suxs at controlling motion artifacts....which many Piano owners either do not notice or are not admitting to it. You'll need to get a HTPC (a bit more research required again), use the DVI input of your PJ to get a true digital signal from the HTPC, you will get a 35% lift in every aspect of your picture quality...

Wow lybdonlim, that is one heck of a solution!! I'm using a crappy little Samsung DVD player with an S-VHS cable on my X1 and getting a great image with no motion artifacts. If this is the only solution then the Piano has just gone way down in my estimation. I guess the Faroudja scaler used by InFocus really is the magic essence.

 

[Charlesk]

I own the piano 3200 as well. I have a new $399.00 harman kardon dvd player before and it had motion artifacts. This does not seem to be an issue with the piano but rather the dvd player. I also have a 61 inch tv and had the same problem when using the harman kardon. I upgraded my dvd player to a denon 1600 and the picture is -very- clean!


I think alot of this has to do with the dvd player than anything else. Also, you definitely want --good-- component cables because they will make a difference. I have Monster m1000cv cables.


Charles

 

[bublitchki]

Here's a question:


I note that both Lyndon and ablegoy are outside the U.S. Are you using NTSC sources?


I'm just wondering if this might be some kind of standard-related problem, since the folks having motion-artifact problems with the Piano are outside the U.S., while those (like me) who haven't noticed these problems are in the U.S.


Just a shot in the dark...

 

[Kimmo Jaskari]

Isn't it just the DLP problem rearing its ugly head again? There are several artefacts that seem to be inherent in all DLP solutions and they have been discussed a multitude of times on this board. Do a search.

 

[gene4ht]

I would have to agree with bublicthki. Until lyndonlim mentioned artifacts, U.S. Piano owners posting in this forum have never mentioned seeing any.


Clehner: Since you have extensive experience with the Piano and other DLP's with respect to PAL material, perhaps you could comment on your observations.


I made a move to an HTPC to further enhance (not to reduce/eliminate artifacts) PQ beyond an already very satisfying image...but this is true for most PJ's regardless of technology.

 

[omszz]

I own a 3100 and am in the US, and I do see motion artifacts on panning in dark scenes. I have a cheap $100 DVD player using a component connection (non-progressive).


I do feel the artifacts are distracting, and if I had to do it again, I'd probably pick the X1 given its price and the fact it doesn't have artifacts.


Other than the artifacts though, I'm very pleased with the Piano.

 

[Mash]

I wonder if it is an interlacing issue. Interlaced images because the whole screen is not being refreshed at one time can potentially leave motion artifacts.


People using the x1 are reporting connecting up non progressive dvd players and having no such issues that I have seen on the forum. Perhaps it is the chip inside the x1 that is doing a better job with interlaced images.


Could you perhaps borrow a progressive scan dvd and see if that makes a difference? It would be expensive to run out and buy one and then find that was not the problem. Or as suggested above try the dvi slot and a computer, if you have a video card with a dvi output.


Don't trust my newbie knowledge, I was just reading up on the difference between interlaced and progressive dvd players, and trying to decide if I want to get an x1. The x1 doesnt have have component inputs that you can plug in a progressive dvd. You need an expensive special adapter you have to order that plugs into the vga slot.

 

[audible]

Yes Mash, as mentioned before, the Faroudja processor in the X1 does the trick. You don't need a progressive scan DVD, it just wouldn't beat the circuitry inside the X1. Also the whole machine is built around the processor so everything is optimized to work together. A simple S-video cable is all thats needed!

 

[omszz]

I can't try progressive input as 3100 doesn't have it. Someone who has the 3200 could try progressive and non-progressive DVD player and see if it makes a difference.


DVI would be the only option for me, and I may try that at some point, although the artifacts aren't bothersome enough for me to take the time to put together an HTPC.

 

[Cinemaphile]

How does one arrive upon an 'improvement' figure as accurate as 35%? Were objective tests done on the quality of the before and after images? What parameters were tested? What weighting was given to each of those those parameters to arrive at the final figure? Why isn't the number more like 36% or say 32%?

 

[lyndonlim]

Quote:

Originally posted by Cinemaphile How does one arrive upon an 'improvement' figure as accurate as 35%? Were objective tests done on the quality of the before and after images? What parameters were tested? What weighting was given to each of those those parameters to arrive at the final figure? Why isn't the number more like 36% or say 32%?

Cinemaphile,


Far out man ! take it easy. Its my subjective assessment, there were no "control groups" established, nor was there a focus group of randomly selected people or weighted scoring assigned to any particular set of variables.


You've got to take this sorts of comments with a pinch of salt. This is a common man's forum not some scientific journal.

 

[lyndonlim]

Motion artifacts on the Piano is not confined to occur only on PAL related DVDs because I have PAL and NTSC material. It occured on all software materials.


It is like the Rainbow effect phenomenon in that some people are more prone to seeing them than others.


There are very few projectors which I would trade the Piano in for mainly because of its ability to render very natural colors and a soft yet incredibly sharp film like quality. The reds could be better although an FLD filter does improve the reds to some extent.

 

[ablegoy]

Thanx for the input guys.....

Well it's not a ntsc / pal problem, since about half of my dvds are region 1 NTSC...


CharlesK: the motion artifacts you saw on the piano when using the harman Kardon dvd-player, can you describe them in more detail?


I am using a Samsung dvd-611, and every time there is quick tilting or panning in a dark scene, the image seems to break up and looks... digitised, for lack of a better word. It's like objects moving through darkness gets a double, image or something. If I hit pause in the middle of such a scene, the image "comes together" and looks fine! I can't believe reviewers who raved about the Piano's black level didn't comment on this!


I tried reducing brightness, and this helps quite a bit, but the sweeping pan across the battle with the orcs in the beginning of fellowship of the ring is still totally unwatchable! It's enough to make a grown man cry! And I am a grown man.


I don't know much about computers. I tried asking a friend of mine who works with computers about HTPC, and he'd never heard of it.... Probably not that widespread here in Norway. So if the Denon 1600 is the answer,..


But if an approx 35% increase in pq is possible, I guess I'll have to do some research into this.

 

[gene4ht]

ablegoy...just as an FYI...I've never experienced the motion artifacts you've described. And I've watched LOTR via S-Video and component from Pioneer & Toshiba DVD players and currently via DVI from an HTPC.

 

[audible]

Just a shot in the dark ablegoy. Do you have any kind of keystone adjustment on? This can cause the effect you talking about.

 

[lyndonlim]

You will not get rid of motion artifacts with different DVD players nor will you get rid of it via different dvd regions, it is a processing problem. I tried 3 different DVD players and they all yielded the same results. I also communicated to the Plus engineers and the Australian distributor engineer and they said it was a problem inherent to DLP. This is not so as the Piano's motion artifacts were quite severe...enough to make you want to stop watching movies on it.


The problem is attributed to the processing within the Piano so regardless of what source you throw at it, it will still have motion artifacts.


Do a search on the HTPC forum. Its not as difficult as you think to setup...just order a few hardware and software parts here and there or purchase a ready made HTPC.


I am afraid HTPC is your only solution. It will reduce motion artifacts to the point that it becomes a none issue. HTPC will also yield you a much better image in every sense.

 

[lyndonlim]

The motion artifacts are there in every single Piano. Its just strange that our fellow Piano owners have not seen it.