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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As promised I have posted picts of the cross hatch and resolution patterns from AVIA. I still am not sure I have everything set up correctly but there are so many variables to consider this is the best I've been able to achieve so far.


I also thought it would be helpful to show some clips from 5th element (2.35:1 with and without masking)


For a 16:9 I used So I Married an Axe Murderer, which is a pretty good transfer.


In both films I used scenes that had lots of vertical, horizontal and diagonal lines.


Picts are here: http://www.msnusers.com/MilleEmporium/screenshots.msnw



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John
My HT Picts
 

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Hi John


Is the image as blue as the pictures indicate or is that a function of the camera?
 

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I think I would this would be more liveable to me than the Panamorph artifact. At least the pincushion is symmetrical. It's also pointing inwards, instead of outwards. If the image is a decent size I'd also think it would give more an illusion of being in a theatre with a curved screen http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


I'd rather not have it at all, but it's still better than the Panamorph IMO.


Oh and thanks a lot for the pictures!


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/frode


[This message has been edited by Frode (edited 08-30-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Frode (edited 08-31-2001).]
 

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Nice pics. I have an ISCO-1 and I must say that the pincushion effect is as noticable as mine is. This bi-concavity can be decreased by making the exiting image as small as possible.??


Soon, I will be one of the lucky ones as I will be using the panamorph to mate up with my Dila. Thinking of selling my ISCO.


Jaime


[This message has been edited by Jmartin (edited 08-30-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Jmartin (edited 08-30-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Jmartin (edited 08-30-2001).]
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
The blue tint is a function of the camera, I edited contrast and brightnness, otherwise when uploaded the picts come out too dark. The camera used was a very inexpensive Fuji digital.


Update: I reloaded the film clips without changes to contrast and brightness. The test patterns were not altered.


There is some overlap into the black borders of the screen. In fact I now noticed that the image is shifted to one side in the cross hatch.


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John
My HT Picts


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 08-30-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 08-30-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 08-30-2001).]
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by Frode:
At least the pincushion is symmetrical. It's also pointing inwards, instead of outwards. If the immage is a decent size I'd also think it would give more an illusion of being in a theatre with a curved screen http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif
Maybe someone can design a curved screen that would take the pincushion out of the ISCo II. It is really difficult to design a perfect lens.
 

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Thank you for taking the time to set up these pics.


What is the source? Progressive scan player, HTPC?


Yes, the distortion is noticable . . . . but I wonder if I would care once the movie is underway.


Kelly
 

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Quote:
Originally posted by kstirman:
Yes, the distortion is noticable . . . . but I wonder if I would care once the movie is underway.


Kelly
You mean people actually watch movies on these things? I thought they just analyzed them to death. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
The source is a Pioneer DV-09 through a Faroudja DVP 2200 set to output 480p.


The pincushion is not noticable to me when viewing DVDs with the masking in place.


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John
My HT Picts


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 08-30-2001).]


[This message has been edited by Wireless (edited 08-30-2001).]
 

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Thanks for the pictures. Always worth 1,000 words.


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Huck
 

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One thing I guess this shows, which is probably obvious, is that the distortions are *much* more noticeable with test patterns than with actual video. So if you're not watching test patterns, maybe the distortions aren't as big a deal as we're making them out to be...


(Putting on flame-proof suit... http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif )


Mike



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Based upon my experience using the ISCO II with the VT540, this looks about right. With proper masking, it's really not noticeable under normal viewing conditions (DVD's), and the lens is, overall, a big improvement.


I wonder what it would look like if we projected crosshatch test patterns at our local movie theaters?
 

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So I guess the real question is, is there more or less distortion with the Panny compared with the Isco 2?


Mike



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Quote:
Originally posted by Frode:
At least the pincushion is symmetrical. It's also pointing inwards, instead of outwards. If the immage is a decent size I'd also think it would give more an illusion of being in a theatre with a curved screen http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif


I'm glad someone else noticed the curved screen illusion which can be achieved with the Isco lens. I have been on the verge of mentioning this at various times when the discussion turned to pincushion distortion, but I figured everyone would think I'm crazy.


Believe it or not, I really like this effect. When I first got my Isco lens, I (like everyone else) sought to eliminate the pincushion. However, as I continued to observe the image, I found that having a moderate degree of the pincushion was more and more appealing---I actually missed the effect when I used my screen curtains to obscure it.


What I was observing jostled a pleasant but unconscious memory...I began to wonder where I had seen this sort of picture geometry before. Then...Bingo! I remembered it from my childhood days watching the curved CinemaScope and Cinerama screens, which are so rarely seen today. A minimal and proportional pincushion effect like that produced by the Isco lens makes the height of the edges slightly greater than the middle of the picture (Think about the CinemaScope logo). This fosters an illusion that the middle is a bit farther away than the sides of the picture, suggesting to your eye and mind that the screen/image is curved. It is that illusion which I find appealing, because, for me, it enhances the cinematic impact of film presentation.


So anyway, that's my rather quirky perspective on the pincushion issue. If you can reduce the distortion to a moderate level and adjust the lens so that the effect is symmetrical, the cinematic illusion caused by this "problem" can actually add to your home theater enjoyment.


Happy home theater-ing!


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Tom
 

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Huckster,


Maybe I should apply to Microsoft http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif .


Seriously though, the minimal distortion from the Isco lens is just not a problem for me. I use a constant height, variable width configuration and a relatively large screen size (150" + horizontal width)---the size might have something to do with the effectiveness of the curved screen illusion, I don't really know.


I generally prefer the effect with wider screen formats (2.35:1 and greater), and often choose to obscure the distortion with masking curtains for narrower formats (like the popular 1:85:1). Anyway, the illusion created appeals to me for the reasons mentioned in my earlier post. Obviously, whether an individual likes this effect remains a matter of personal taste---to each his own http://www.avsforum.com/ubb/smile.gif .


Happy home theater-ing!


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Tom
 

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Wireless,


What does the ISCO II do for the image? I would expect it to give a smoother, clearer more 3D look, however, I have heard from one respected source that the image is "softer". What's your take?


Cheers,


Grant
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Grant,


I don't detect any softness and when looking at the resolution pattern the detail is the same. It does give a much smoother look, making the fill factor less. This reduction could probably be interpreted as a softening to the picture


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John
My HT Picts
 
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