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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I just recently purchased a Panasonic TC-P50S2 and I suppose I was expecting too much from this television set. The picture on the display at one department store was moving very clearly, almost as if it was REAL and it really excited me into buying a plasma. The refresh rate is the same as the tv that was on display, but for some reason im unable to get that REALISTIC looking movement. The picture quality is great, but the movement on the picture doesn't move as smoothly. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Ill see if i can be more specific:


The movement of characters on the screen had no blurs, moved fluidly, and looked REAL. Simple. Why can't my tv do this? its also 600 hz, 1080p, etc.


I've seen an LED at 240 hz handle motion better than my plasma at 600 hz. Can anyone explain to me whats going on? What can I do to improve this? My source is Avatar on bluray played on a playstation 3 through hdmi.


To even more specific, I just saw 80 hz on an LCD with avatar on DVD play smoother than my plasma. Can anyone tell me whats up?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 /forum/post/19535523


Try setting Blur Reduction to On. I personally haven't noticed a difference with it off or on, but some say it gives that effect.

Tried this but to no improvement. I believe the picture quality on my television set is as good as it gets but Automotion Plus or TruMotion is superior to my plasma's refresh rate. Could this really be the case?


I just realized, that there was a plasma that looked better than the tv's with AutoMotion Plus and TruMotion. Why can't my tv meet those standards with the same specifications?
 

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Only "Cinema" mode enables 600hz subfield drive. Also, only Vivid and Standard have an artificial smoothing effect. Custom and Game have all these processes disabled.


Now...why you can't enable and pick and choose your options on any mode is beyond me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by daniel'son /forum/post/19535688


.. do you have pixel-shift turned off or all the Advanced features in Menu.


Warning: pixel=shift serves purpose, so would leave on for ,at least, first few 100 hours.

I have pixel shift turned on. Haven't even used my tv for 24 hours.

Quote:
Originally Posted by redwolf4k /forum/post/19535818


Only "Cinema" mode enables 600hz subfield drive. Also, only Vivid and Standard have an artificial smoothing effect. Custom and Game have all these processes disabled.


Now...why you can't enable and pick and choose your options on any mode is beyond me.

Does vivid and standard mode have 600 hz subfield drive enabled as well? or just cinema?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkm8 /forum/post/19536063


I have pixel shift turned on. Haven't even used my tv for 24 hours.




Does vivid and standard mode have 600 hz subfield drive enabled as well? or just cinema?

I am not 100% sure. I know on Panasonics website, when they advertise 600hz, they put an asterik next to it, and the fine print reads "600hz in cinema mode only."


But, I have messed around with all the modes for quite a while, and its very clear that Standard and Vivid both have some sort of motion smoothing or interpolation thing going on, because panning and body movement seems to be much smoother, where as its choppy with Game or Custom.
 

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Try using the widely used reference settings posted by D-Nice. I'll copy them for you and click here for the thread with more info on the settings.


Picture:

Picture Mode: Cinema

Contrast: 71

Brightness: 60

Color: 47

Tint: G9

Sharpness: 0

Color Temp: Warm

x.v. Color: Off

C.A.T.S: Off

Video NR: Off

Blur Reduction: Off


Advance Options

MPEG NR: Off

Black Level: Light

3:2 Pulldown: On
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99
Try using the widely used reference settings posted by D-Nice. I'll copy them for you and click here for the thread with more info on the settings.


Picture:

Picture Mode: Cinema

Contrast: 71

Brightness: 60

Color: 47

Tint: G9

Sharpness: 0

Color Temp: Warm

x.v. Color: Off

C.A.T.S: Off

Video NR: Off

Blur Reduction: Off


Advance Options

MPEG NR: Off

Black Level: Light

3:2 Pulldown: On
3:2 Pulldown is greyed out. Also, I noticed when playing Call of Duty: Black Ops the frame rate is much much better (exactly as fluid and realistic as the display at the retail store I went to). Also, I noticed that when I hook up an HP Laptop and play the same movie (Avatar) the motion is much more fluid like than if i were to play it through my ps3.


My theory:


The PS3 automatically adjusts the fps of blu ray movies to make them look more theatre like, but not realistic (or unrealistic; the 'soap opera effect'; whatever you want to call it). Or, the Blu-Ray player on the ps3 just sucks.


could this be the case?


Edit:


I just noticed that my tv is lacking an essential feature that comes with the European models known as IFC. Oh well. Guess Ill just enjoy what Ive got. Thanks guys!
 

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The 3:2 pulldown is going to be grayed out on HDMI sources. The option is for when you watch interlaced sources such as 480i or 1080i through OTA or cable/satellite/fios etc.


I don't know about the PS3 as I don't have one, but make sure it doesn't have some setting on that causes that effect.
 

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If your ps3 games look good, and avatar looked good thru another source, then my guess would be a setting for bd playback on your ps3 is not to your liking. Double check things like 24p output. As far as I know, the s2 series doesn't do 24p. Don't know what would happen if you tried to feed it a 24p source? Keep tweaking. Best way to learn your gear.



Also, BD playback on the ps3 most definately does NOT suck. It's also a very good upconverting standard dvd player.
 

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From what I've read in this forum, 240 Hz with a LCD/LED display means something different than the 600-Hz subfield reference for plasmas. 240 Hz mode for LCDs refers to a frame repetition rate when interpolation (extra artificial frames) is used to 'smooth' motion. Often there are complaints about the distortion this causes. By contrast, Panasonic's 600-Hz subfield rate, AIUI, refers to the dithering of each pixel--not directly related to frame interpolation (240 Hz, etc.).


Your reference to 600 Hz in Cinema mode only is new to me. The manual for my '09 Panny TH-65VX100U, doesn't mention this. Here, Cinema mode is only listed as "ideal for movies." There's a huge visual difference between Cinema and Standard modes, with Cinema mode preset to the warm color temp. So, I usually switch to Cinema mode only for 24p (drama) productions, then to Standard for 1080/60i (1080i30), or 480/60i (non-24p) programs. VX100s, and some other Panny models, use a DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) color standard that often makes reds and greens too strong when viewing 1080i/480i non-24p programs in Cinema mode.


One of those intriguing *-type notes in my manual mentions that 3-2 pulldown "ON" only applies with YPbPr component inputs, which I'm using with cable TV because it delivers slightly better horizontal resolution compared to HDMI (via a DVRed HD test pattern). My Sony PS3 Blu-ray machine is connected only with HDMI. With so many subtle setting/input options and interactions, there seems to be many ways of setting one or more parameters the wrong way. AIUI, my VX100 does provide 96 Hz frame repetition for 24p via HDMI, although one pro review describes it an a pseudo-96Hz (doubling of 24 Hz to 48 Hz, then doubling that).
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 /forum/post/19538108


The 3:2 pulldown is going to be grayed out on HDMI sources. The option is for when you watch interlaced sources such as 480i or 1080i through OTA or cable/satellite/fios etc.


I don't know about the PS3 as I don't have one, but make sure it doesn't have some setting on that causes that effect.

Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything in the menu's that says anything to this effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bobbvis /forum/post/19538182


If your ps3 games look good, and avatar looked good thru another source, then my guess would be a setting for bd playback on your ps3 is not to your liking. Double check things like 24p output. As far as I know, the s2 series doesn't do 24p. Don't know what would happen if you tried to feed it a 24p source? Keep tweaking. Best way to learn your gear.



Also, BD playback on the ps3 most definately does NOT suck. It's also a very good upconverting standard dvd player.

Thanks for verifying the BD playback on the ps3 doesn't suck. The 24p signal sent by the ps3 does show on my screen and panasonics website says I have the following feature: 24p Playback (2:3).


Unfortunately, there is no way to disable 24p, which is what is causing this. I also think that the lack of IFC is what is causing me not to get the picture I want (which is apparently available in the European modes).
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by John Mason /forum/post/19539414


From what I've read in this forum, 240 Hz with a LCD/LED display means something different than the 600-Hz subfield reference for plasmas. 240 Hz mode for LCDs refers to a frame repetition rate when interpolation (extra artificial frames) is used to 'smooth' motion. Often there are complaints about the distortion this causes. By contrast, Panasonic's 600-Hz subfield rate, AIUI, refers to the dithering of each pixel--not directly related to frame interpolation (240 Hz, etc.).


Your reference to 600 Hz in Cinema mode only is new to me. The manual for my '09 Panny TH-65VX100U, doesn't mention this. Here, Cinema mode is only listed as "ideal for movies." There's a huge visual difference between Cinema and Standard modes, with Cinema mode preset to the warm color temp. So, I usually switch to Cinema mode only for 24p (drama) productions, then to Standard for 1080/60i (1080i30), or 480/60i programs. VX100s, and some other Panny models, use a DCI (Digital Cinema Initiative) color standard that often makes reds and greens too strong when viewing 1080i/460i non-24p programs in Cinema mode.


One of those intriguing *-type notes in my manual mentions that 3-2 pulldown only applies with YPbPr component inputs, which I'm using with cable TV because it delivers slightly better horizontal resolution compared to HDMI (via a DVRed HD test pattern). My Sony PS3 Blu-ray machine is connected only with HDMI. With so many subtle setting/input options and interactions, there seems to be many ways of setting one or more parameters the wrong way. AIUI, my VX100 does provide 96 Hz frame repetition for 24p via HDMI, although one pro view describes it an a pseudo-96Hz (doubling of 24 Hz to 48 Hz, then doubling that).

600 hz is only available in cinema mode according to the website. I don't know what to do though. I'm still lost as to how I can make my television perform better. I suppose Ill just leave it as it is until I find someone else with a blu ray player that can turn off 24p.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkm8
600 hz is only available in cinema mode according to the website. I don't know what to do though. I'm still lost as to how I can make my television perform better. I suppose Ill just leave it as it is until I find someone else with a blu ray player that can turn off 24p.
24p, from Blu-rays or some rare DBS sources, has been long sought after on these forums. It's closer to 24p film frames than the 2-3 pulldown 24p from 1080i/480i delivered in interlace format, then extracted with inverse pulldown, stitched back to 24p, but then displayed at 60p on most plasmas, like 1080/60i/480/60i (non-24p) programs. That adds judder--noticed by some--because it's not an even frame multiple (96 Hz, etc.). AIUI, some of the newest video processors can perform inverse (or reverse) pulldown, then output even 24p multiples, but not sure what displays are using this.


As I outlined earlier, the 240-Hz cinema smooth feature differs, AIUI, from 600 Hz subfield operation in some plasmas. Many earlier posts mention cinema 'smooth' often looks fine in stores; then, at home, viewers begin noticing the image distortion from inadequate frame interpolations. This smooth-motion 'soap-opera' effect can of course be seen on some daytime soap operas because they're not 24p. Lots of AVS threads discuss eventual 60p, 48p, etc. capture of dramas, but 24p, they generally conclude, will long be with us. -- John
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkm8
I just recently purchased a Panasonic TC-P50S2 and I suppose I was expecting too much from this television set. The picture on the display at one department store was moving very clearly, almost as if it was REAL and it really excited me into buying a plasma. The refresh rate is the same as the tv that was on display, but for some reason im unable to get that REALISTIC looking movement. The picture quality is great, but the movement on the picture doesn't move as smoothly. Does anyone know what I'm talking about? Ill see if i can be more specific:


The movement of characters on the screen had no blurs, moved fluidly, and looked REAL. Simple. Why can't my tv do this? its also 600 hz, 1080p, etc.


I've seen an LED at 240 hz handle motion better than my plasma at 600 hz. Can anyone explain to me whats going on? What can I do to improve this? My source is Avatar on bluray played on a playstation 3 through hdmi.


To even more specific, I just saw 80 hz on an LCD with avatar on DVD play smoother than my plasma. Can anyone tell me whats up?
You're looking for the wrong thing, there's no way for a Plasma TV to achieve the same "soap opera" effect that 240hz gives you on an LCD. The whole point of plasma motion is to avoid that effect. On an LCD you're either stuck with 60hz, which has a lot of motion issues, or a 120/240hz effect which gets rid of motion blur but on the other hand makes everything look like cheap soap opera.


Why anyone in their right minds would like that "real" effect is beyond me, it's almost too real, that's not how movies are supposed to look.


If you want that ridiculous home video soap opera real movement effect, you have to buy an LCD/LED.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jabolino
You're looking for the wrong thing, there's no way for a Plasma TV to achieve the same "soap opera" effect that 240hz gives you on an LCD.
Not true. The Samsung PNccC8000 can do the "soap opera effect."
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkm8
Unfortunately, there is no way to disable 24p, which is what is causing this. I also think that the lack of IFC is what is causing me not to get the picture I want (which is apparently available in the European modes).
Why don't you disable 24Hz output on the PS3? If you go under your video settings in the PS3 (not the display settings), there should be a 24 Hz option that you can change to off. See if that helps. With that said, the S2 will accept a 1080/24p signal but it will not display it in it's native refresh rate. It uses 3:2 pulldown to convert it back to 60Hz.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by checkm8 /forum/post/19539441


Unfortunately, I haven't seen anything in the menu's that says anything to this effect.

Sorry, I meant to say for Progressive sources. The 3:2 Pulldown option can only be changed when you're source is an interlaced source. If you look at the option in the menu, it has a description at the bottom which says "Reduces motion jitter in film-based content by transforming 24 fps to 30fps (non-HDMI)"
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·

Quote:
Originally Posted by poofyhairguy /forum/post/19540468


Not true. The Samsung PNccC8000 can do the "soap opera effect."

That is exactly the TV I was looking at. Too pricey for me though. Im glad I got what I got.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Brad /forum/post/19540684


Why don't you disable 24Hz output on the PS3? If you go under your video settings in the PS3 (not the display settings), there should be a 24 Hz option that you can change to off. See if that helps. With that said, the S2 will accept a 1080/24p signal but it will not display it in it's native refresh rate. It uses 3:2 pulldown to convert it back to 60Hz.

I disabled 24hz output and it didn't do anything noticeable when watching The Hangover on Blu-Ray. Oh well. I don't even know what that means "It uses 3:2 pulldown to convert it back to 60Hz."

Quote:
Originally Posted by fairchild99 /forum/post/19541127


Sorry, I meant to say for Progressive sources. The 3:2 Pulldown option can only be changed when you're source is an interlaced source. If you look at the option in the menu, it has a description at the bottom which says "Reduces motion jitter in film-based content by transforming 24 fps to 30fps (non-HDMI)"

Surprisingly enough, my DVR is connected via HDMI but it allows me to turn on 3:2 Pulldown. I suppose this is due to the fact that the picture coming in is 1080i.
 
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