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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok we have 2 projectors here showing the same movie, Titan AE.

One is an upper end 720P DLP showing the DVD version upscaled via the Lumagen HD Pro in full scope using the Isco 3 lens.

All top images from each set is the DLP.


The next projector is a 35mm showing the 35mm print via Xenon.

Both are 8 feet wide. I tried to capture the same frames as close as possible. I was able to freeze the DVD image for the camera but not so with the film so the DVD had the advantage there. I used the eact same settings for all shots.

Unfortunetly my Film room is not done yet and the room is bright white and shinning on the wall..ouch contrast killer but still the films dark scenes kill our video systems.


The camera does tent to shift things a little. I can tell you the film version clobbers the DLP in contrast and color saturation. Its really quit stunning and your mouth drops open in some of the scenes.


Just thought it would be fun to compare the two side by side.


Next week I will try "Cat N the Hat" in HD to the Film version so we can see how HD compares to Film.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/3v.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/3f.jpg

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/2v.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/2f.jpg

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/1v.jpg
http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/1f.jpg
 

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The color temps look totally different. The DLP looks too blue. The brightness looks different. Were they both putting about the same amount of light to the screen?


Would be interesting to see the same shots filtered to the same final brightness at the screen.


I agree, the space shots looked killer on film. That, however is not what I see locally with film. Our movie house looks majorly washed out and blacks are not so good here.


Nice post!
 

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One thing I really love about film is that the spatial colorresolution is so much higher than with DVD. Alan, which 35mm projector do you use?
 

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Film at the theater is a whole different ball game and is often inferior to what I see on DVD at home. Having a nice clean film print at home is obviously the way to go!


Was the DLP calibrated to D65 and were the brightness/contrast settings set correctly Alan? That would make a huge difference to to what you see on the DLP.


Gary.
 

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Alan, were you processing the DVD through your Mosquito?


Dan
 

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Alan, how about slicing a frame out of the 35mm film, mounting it into a slide-mount and then projecting using a proper slide projector? Not sure that you would get the same amount of light (probably not), but at least you would get a static projected image.
 

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nice job and interesting

What kind of specs does the dlp have?

It must be possible to get the dlp closer to the original in colors. They are SO different.


What kind of quality level is the film?

1 generation, struck from OCN or a release print

2 what kind of film stock is used for the print, normal or high quality.




looking forward the hd comparison.


What about taking a picture with a high quality digital camera and then project it with the dlp. This to see what is the limitation of the projector and not the source.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCARACER
however is not what I see locally with film. Our movie house looks majorly washed out and blacks are not so good here.


Nice post!
True but film done rt ( its not hard) blows away our best video displays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by drpp
One thing I really love about film is that the spatial colorresolution is so much higher than with DVD. Alan, which 35mm projector do you use?
YOu are dead on. Something the camera really does not pick up. Thats the biggest let down in our video systems and source.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mhafner
To match a good film print you need good HD. DVD does not cut it...
As in my post. I will compare Cat N the Hat in HD and film next.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanHouck
Alan, were you processing the DVD through your Mosquito?


Dan
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFerret
Alan, how about slicing a frame out of the 35mm film, mounting it into a slide-mount and then projecting using a proper slide projector? Not sure that you would get the same amount of light (probably not), but at least you would get a static projected image.
Good idea but I dont have the equipment. This was just a fast side by side but I will take a little more time next time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohlson
What kind of quality level is the film?

1 generation, struck from OCN or a release print

2 what kind of film stock is used for the print, normal or high quality.
Same print that what was distributed to all the theaters. Nothing special.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Lightfoot
Was the DLP calibrated to D65 and were the brightness/contrast settings set correctly Alan? That would make a huge difference to to what you see on the DLP.


Gary.
Strangly enough yes my system is completly calibrated but I think the camers may have some effect.





I will take more time on the next one. This was just one of those quick ideas and did not know how it would turn out.

I will tell you the color on film blows away our video systems. We will never have the color you get from film. The contrast on film is also much much better and easy to see with eye even when my film room has white walls it still blows away the DLP. With a clean print you can get very close and watch it. Very smooth and 3 d.

No color smear or chroma delay. No edge enhancement.

Our top video systems still look great just as long as you are not doing direct comparisions.
 

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Again about the color

Was the color difference as dramatic in color as the first shot suggest. I am not asking about quality just the color.


If the color was closer than the picture suggests perhaps you accidently changed mode between the shots. For example light bulbs, flourescent tubes or daylight. One of these modes is very cold with my camera. I can not remember which one though.


keep up the good work
 

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Ferret, 35mm frames are much smaller than regular 35mm chromes (they are rotated 90 degree compard to slides), so you have to build a kind of mask if you want to use a 35mm slide projector to project them. Additional you don't have a Xenon bulb in the slide projector.


Mhafner, I think all consumer sources, HD included have less spatial colourresolution than film (not talking digital cinema here). I would assume that you would need to scale 1080i down to a 960x540 display to get comparable relative colourresolution but than you have significantly lower spatial resolution...


Alan, which of your many filmprojectors did you use for the comparison?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I did not change any settings on the camera to be fair thinking thats the best way to do this. It could have something to do with both systems using a different light source.


Cat N the Hat in HD is top notch with a ton of colors. A bad movie but eye candy. Ill do a better job on that one.


I think thats where Laser projection excels, color.
 

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What is the white for film , close to 5400K?

If things are to look the way they do with film. How often does the color change dramatically in the transfer to say DVD. We calibrate our projectors to a standard. We assume that in creation of the dvd they have made the dvd look like film in color palette.


Can you make the dlp look closer to the film by changing a few parameters.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by drpp
Mhafner, I think all consumer sources, HD included have less spatial colourresolution than film (not talking digital cinema here). I would assume that you would need to scale 1080i down to a 960x540 display to get comparable relative colourresolution but than you have significantly lower spatial resolution...


Alan, which of your many filmprojectors did you use for the comparison?
drpp


The color resolution of film is beyond what my camera has captured in my pictures. Its really stunning. The difference between the two is no comparison.


My HD version of Cat N the Hat is very very color full. A stunning example of HD but next to film the colors look pastel and pasty. On the film they are very saturated and rich yet natural. Hard to describe.


If I could list in order the differences I am seeing between the two formats it would go like this with resolution being last and least noticeable between the two.


1. Color resolution. Film winning hands down.

2. Contrast. Film winning hands down.

3. Overall resolution. Not as noticeable as you would think.


Here a picture of my DeVry portable. Completely rebuilt with a new Simplex intermittent. Shes perfect for little screenings and running trailers.

http://gallery.avsforum.com/data/509/Picture_004.jpg
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger
The color resolution of film is beyond what my camera has captured in my pictures. Its really stunning. The difference between the two is no comparison.


My HD version of Cat N the Hat is very very color full. A stunning example of HD but next to film the colors look pastel and pasty. On the film they are very saturated and rich yet natural. Hard to describe.
It seems that some terms are being confused here.


There is the spatial resolution of color, and there is the gamut of color (which contributes to saturation). They mean totally different things.


For example, DVD has a spatial resolution of 360x240 for chroma, whereas the gamut (or color triangle) is defined by the SMPTE "C" primaries.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erik Garci
It seems that some terms are being confused here.


There is the spatial resolution of color, and there is the gamut of color (which contributes to saturation). They mean totally different things.


For example, DVD has a spatial resolution of 360x240 for chroma, whereas the gamut (or color triangle) is defined by the SMPTE "C" primaries.
Thanks for the explanation. You are far more technical then myself. What ever the definition if you could be here to see the two side by side you would easily see the weakness in our videos ( paint by number) color system. Yet when I walk away from the film for some time and watch a good quality movie in my HT it looks fine. Sometimes doing a side by side can be dangerous:)
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alan Gouger
Thanks for the explanation. You are far more technical then myself. What ever the definition if you could be here to see the two side by side you would easily see the weakness in our videos ( paint by number) color system. Yet when I walk away from the film for some time and watch a good quality movie in my HT it looks fine. Sometimes doing a side by side can be dangerous:)


Oh yeah... thats easy to see even in the photos... the color gradiations are incredible on the film version compared to the DLP/DVD... so smooth and stepless. Amazing difference.
 

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This seems like "The Emperor has no clothes" to me.


Hasn't anyone else noticed that the screen shots of the DVD don't look nearly as good in brightness, color, or contrast than the typical screenshots of even budget pj's?
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Quote:
Originally Posted by noah katz
This seems like "The Emperor has no clothes" to me.


Hasn't anyone else noticed that the screen shots of the DVD don't look nearly as good in brightness, color, or contrast than the typical screenshots of even budget pj's?
Noah


I did not spend a lot of time on this but the DVD was frozen so it did have an advantage. There were plenty of other pictures from the 35mm that really showed its stuff but it was blurry from motion. Im going to really do a better job on the next few. Much better:)
 
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