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Discussion Starter #361
Started work on making fabric frames. Been ripping plywood down, planning the ply + MDF combo. This weekend hope to mock up my first frame.




Followed up a lead for local OC 703 here:


KAMCO SUPPLY CORP OF BOSTON

304 Bodwell Street

Avon, Massachusetts 02322

Phone: 508-587-1500

Fax: 508-588-6140
http://www.kamcoboston.com/


They don't stock OC 703 but can order it, and they get a truck a week from Owens Corning, so about that long to get it in. I was hoping to pick some up so I could mock a frame complete with the OC 703.


BPape did a design for me and spec'd a mix of 1" and 2" OC 703 both faced and unfaced.

They quoted me these prices:


2" unfaced - - $80 for 96 sq [I am not sure he got it right, I think he quoted me the 1" here]

2" faced - - $60 for 48 sqft

1" unfaced - - $80 per carton [should be 96 SQ]

1" faced - - No estimate


They were somewhat helpful. Shipping really ads up on this stuff, so it is probably cheaper to get it locally, though I'd rather give Bryan the business ( http://sensiblesoundsolutions.com/index.php?cPath=38 ). I need to clean up my estimate of how much I need. I'll probably by it unfaced and add the facing separately. Bryan sells a scrim, and I need some accoustic cotten too.
 

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Discussion Starter #362
On a business trip went out and got the $100 HD-DVD player at wal-mart (already have the PS3). It fit in the suitcase, but I have to check it now. Now I need to get a HDMI splitter.
 

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Hey Dave,


I was wondering where you've been, thought you might have gotten trapped under all that sawdust. I went this morning to Brockton Wal-mart on the way to work and picked up 2.
 

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You probably mean HDMI switcher right, monoprice has those too.
 

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Discussion Starter #366
Yeah meant switcher. Was looking at the monoprice ones. Would have put the order in, but could remember if I need more cables.


I got about 1/3 of my cuts done before other obligations took over.


Sister in laws wedding is next weekend. After that only work and holidays get in my way.
 

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Discussion Starter #367
Well I have all my sources lined up now.


I went to the sony outlet and was able to get a sony HDD-250 DVR. It is a quirky unit in that it was quickly discountinued, and may have a problem getting guide data (essential to its operation) after the analog shutoff in 2009, but then it will still work as an ATSC/QAM tuner (w/cablecard). I hadd the HDD-500 upstairs in my den and was reticent to move it. I thought I would end up with the cable company's DVR, but I prefer to not be tied to a subscription or monthly fee.


So my sources will be PS3 for blu-ray; A2 for HD-DVD; HDD-250 for HDTV/DVR. I am short one HDMI cable, so will order a couple when I get the switch from monoprice.


The DVR was $299, and I got the 2 year warranty for $25 due to the 2009 issue. They had a handful of refurbs at the outlet, so they may be at other outlets around the country. They go around that price on e-bay, but you never know what you are getting there.


Once my switch arrives I'll be done to only one piece of electronics left, the remote. Leaning towards RF, but have conduit run if I decide to go IR. At this pace I am not going to buy it until the room is done, so its looking like a 2008 purchase. We have a harmony upstairs which is only "ok", so I have been glancing at the URC line of remotes.
 

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Discussion Starter #368
Okay, a bit of progress. I finished cutting my mdf into 2" strips. So the ply is cut, the mdf is cut, next step is beveling the mdf, then its mitering and frame assembly. This could take a while.


Here is the 200 or so pieces of trimmed mdf. They will all need to be re-fed through and a bevel added.


Dust went everywhere. I tried to vacuum after each session, but it was time consuming, so towards the end I was just plowing through. The dust mask was an MVP. I added the binder clip to prevent it from fogging my glasses. worked well.


Here is the mini dust mountain under the saw.


The next step is bevelling. I made a few test cuts a few weeks ago. These cuts are far from perfect, but this is the ist of where we are going.


A cross-section.


My wife's sister is getting married this weekend, so I might get one more night to work this week. After that, a bit more free in the evenings. I think the bevelling will take 2-4 sessions. My trial cuts told me I will need to work on my push stick technique.
 

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Hey there, aren't you done yet??? You are getting as bad as Me. LOL
 

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Dave:


Thanks for the lead on Kamco in Avon.


These guys seem to have everything I am looking for.


I had them deliver all my steel studs, insulation, and found out after the fact that they have putty pads also. They also carry RISC clips, fyi.


No surprise they have the 703! Probably other goodies as well!


db
 

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Discussion Starter #371

Quote:
Originally Posted by McCall /forum/post/12149696


Hey there, aren't you done yet??? You are getting as bad as Me. LOL

I know, its terrible. The next target to miss in New Years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dbbarron /forum/post/12149806


Dave:


Thanks for the lead on Kamco in Avon.


These guys seem to have everything I am looking for.


I had them deliver all my steel studs, insulation, and found out after the fact that they have putty pads also. They also carry RISC clips, fyi.


No surprise they have the 703! Probably other goodies as well!


db

Didn't know they had RSIC clips. What are the delivery charges like? I am thinking the 703 I need might be a bit much for my wife's subaru.
 

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Discussion Starter #372
Back in business. Sort of. Tonight set things up to bevel the mdf. I cut enough to make a mock up frame, but the miter saw is in the garage under the baby's room, so couldn't take it further.


Adding the bevel adds quite a bit of resistance in terms of pushing the mdf through the tble saw. So much so, that I guess it was smoky (none that I saw), and set off the fire alarm. The fire alarms are networked in my house, so all the fire alarms went off. My daughter slept through it, which was a big break. I yanked the detector off the ceiling, which ment it still went off a couple more times on battery power, but the rest of the alarms in the house didn't go off.


The mdf showed a few schorch marks. But really not too much. Here is a couple pics of the one who showed the most. Really not too much. Should I get a better blade to cut the mdf better?

 

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Hi Dave,


I personally don't think you need to worry about your cuts being perfect if you are just going to cover them with GOM or similar. I am in the process of covering my second room with GOM fabric and I have furred both rooms using just OSB. As you can imagine OSB chips and cuts quite rough but once covered with GOM it looks perfect. The GOM covers the imperfections and is very forgiving, as an added bonus OSB takes staples very well and is cheap.


You can try to wrap your fabric around a piece you have cut with imperfections to give yourself an idea of how much it covers up.


Rob
 

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I got scorch marks at the end of my MDF bevel cuts also. Some strange force causes it to want to twist at the very end of the pass. I agree with McArthur, the GOM covers up any flaws with the bevel cuts.
 

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Discussion Starter #375

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob_McArthur /forum/post/12211024


Hi Dave,


I personally don't think you need to worry about your cuts being perfect if you are just going to cover them with GOM or similar.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mbgonzomd /forum/post/12212296


I got scorch marks at the end of my MDF bevel cuts also. Some strange force causes it to want to twist at the very end of the pass. I agree with McArthur, the GOM covers up any flaws with the bevel cuts.

Thanks for the comments guys. I am quite concerned about the even-ness of the cut. I am not super concerned about the scorch marks showing through the fabric. But to be honest with you, the bit that concerned me the most was that the force required to push the mdf through the saw makes me worry that I am stressing the blade too much. I am not sure why having the blade on an angle makes the cut more difficult, thinking about more I guess the surface area cut is about double the straight cut, but its an effort to feed the mdf through. I'd say the effort is a 5 or a 6 out of 10, whereas the straight cuts were a 3 or so. I am a little paranoid because I am a leg amputee from a brushwacker that had a circular saw blade fracture.


I think I have convinced myself to swap out the factory stock blade. I'll start researching which blades cut MDF best. Any recomendations?
 

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Discussion Starter #376
Well looks like I should get one with at least 50 teeth, and carbide. I'll see what the stores have. I don't remember what the stock blade for the bosch was. Probably not that.

Quote:
Q: What should I use to cut and mill MDF?


A: MDF can be treated much like a fine grained hardwood. Its high glue content means that steel cutting tools will dull VERY quickly; thus the use of carbide tools is highly recommended. Always keep your tools sharp for efficiency and safety.


The following recommendations are from the The National Particleboard Association publication:


* For general shop or table saw use with decent cut and good blade life, a 50 tooth, 10 inch combination blade may be used.

* For those demanding a better cut, consider a 60 tooth, 10 inch blade with alternate top bevel (ATB) teeth at 15 degrees, 10 degree positive hook, 5 degree side clearance, 10 degree outside diameter clearance, and low approach angle (blade projecting no more than 0.5 inch through top of material).

* For an even smoother cut, consider an 80 tooth, 10 inch blade with 15 degree ATB, 10 degree alternate face bevel, 15 degree positive hook, and 7 degrees side clearance. This is costlier and may result in a shorter blade life.
Quote:
MDF
http://www.lalena.com/Audio/FAQ/MDF/#Q7


Medium Density Fiberboard is made by heating and compressing softwood scraps and glue. It is uniformly granular, machinable and has no grain. It's porous, dense and heavy, and won't hold screws well. It may contain formaldehyde. Tools cutting MDF tend to get hot due to abrasion, so choose a durable triple chip style 10 in. 60T.
http://www.dekalbsaw.com/sawchoices.html
 

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Long rip cuts can be difficult and scary, especially with a bevel like that. A hold down or two mounted to the rip fence would add some protection and probably give you a smoother cut, as well. I would post some links but the system won't take them since this is my first post. Options range from Board Buddies (search Amazon for Board Buddies) to a feather board (search for Bench Dog 40-011, as an example). Feather boards are easy to make if you have some solid hardwood scraps laying around. The idea is that the feather board is mounted vertically, clamped to the rip fence, so it holds the MDF tight against the table as you push it through the blade. The uneven-ness in your test cuts probably resulted from the MDF lifting up slightly when you repositioned your hands during the cut. A feather board or equivalent hold down helps prevent that.


A new blade would be a good idea, too. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a blade to cut MDF, unless you're interested in finding someone to resharpen it for you. MDF is really tough on blades and by the time you're finished making all of those bevel cuts, the blade will likely need to either be resharpened or replaced. A 50-tooth thin kerf combination blade in the Diablo line of Freud blades would probably be adequate for your needs (search for Freud D1050X Diablo).


Woodworking is my main hobby. I'm happy to lend more advice if it would be helpful.


Love your construction thread, by the way. Your space is really looking great! I am green with envy over all the basement theater construction threads. In the Phoenix area, where I live, everything is slab-on-grade construction and almost no one has a basement.


-- Paul
 

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I've had good luck with Freud blades for my miter saw. I haven't yet fired up my new table saw yet and therefore haven't replaced the blade that came with it. I seem to recall that HD had them for around $65 or so.
 

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Discussion Starter #379

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp /forum/post/12213740


Long rip cuts can be difficult and scary, especially with a bevel like that. A hold down or two mounted to the rip fence would add some protection and probably give you a smoother cut, as well. I would post some links but the system won't take them since this is my first post.

[snip]


The uneven-ness in your test cuts probably resulted from the MDF lifting up slightly when you repositioned your hands during the cut. A feather board or equivalent hold down helps prevent that.

This is a good and helpful description. Thanks for making my thread the first you posted (& welcome). I am new to the table saw, had a related thread where a featherboard was mentioned, and I have one that applied pressure horizontally. It was in the way of my push stick when vertically oriented. I did clamp a longer piece of wood to the fence, but I might need to make it a tighter fit. The board buddies thing is intruiging too.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwightp /forum/post/12213740


A new blade would be a good idea, too. I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a blade to cut MDF, unless you're interested in finding someone to resharpen it for you. MDF is really tough on blades and by the time you're finished making all of those bevel cuts, the blade will likely need to either be resharpened or replaced. A 50-tooth thin kerf combination blade in the Diablo line of Freud blades would probably be adequate for your needs (search for Freud D1050X Diablo).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cathan /forum/post/12214165


I've had good luck with Freud blades for my miter saw. I haven't yet fired up my new table saw yet and therefore haven't replaced the blade that came with it. I seem to recall that HD had them for around $65 or so.

I just got back from HD at lunch. They didn't have the diablo 50 tooth version, so I got a 60 and an 80 for $40 and $50 respectively. I need a new blade for my 10" miter saw too. Probably could have stuck with the 60 for both, but I upsell myself pretty easily when it comes to tools, "What's another $10. . ." Oh well.
 
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