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Discussion Starter #1
*Updated 4/7/08 - Updated Movie mode settings: contrast, sharpness, pure cinema; Edited PS3 24hz setting*


These settings are intended for HDMI inputs only. I've chosen to use Movie mode as it does not drive the panel as hard as User mode, resulting in less PWM noise (yielding a "cleaner" image). Use these settings for your Pio 5080, PS3, Xbox 360, Dish receiver and the results should be satisfying.

1) Under Options -> HDMI input on your 5080; make sure Video setting is set to Auto.

2) On the Xbox 360, under Display settings in the System blade, choose Standard Levels. Also set your 360 to output 1080p.

3) On the PS3, set output to 1080p and the following settings like so...
Under BD/DVD settings, Force Y Pb/Cb Pr/Cr, NOT Auto or RGB...
Under Display settings, set RGB: Limited, NOT FULL...
Superwhite: On
BD 1080p 24Hz Output: Auto (I set this to Off which seems to minimize stutter/judder)

4) I set my Dish Receiver to output 720p as I watch a lot of 720p program material.

5) Set your 5080 settings like so...

Main Menu:

AV Selection: Movie

Contrast: 38

Brightness: 0

Color: -2

Tint: 0 (middle)

Sharpness: -6

Pro Adjust

Pure Cinema

Film Mode: Off (On for 1080i material)

Text Optimization: Off

Picture Detail

DRE Picture: Low

Black Level: Off

ACL: Off

Enhancer Mode: 2

Gamma: 2

Color Detail

Color Temp: Low

CTI: Off

Noise Reduction

3DNR: Off

Field NR: Off


Power Save Mode: Off

Orbiter: On

6) These settings result in light output around 39 foot lamberts on the 5080. I have a light controlled room, so these settings may be a bit too dim for some. Just increase the Contrast setting a bit if need be. But at a setting of 38, you will be minimizing IR.
 

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These settings are at PC levels and aren't necessarily a good idea for video sources such as BD, HDDVD, DVD and TV. I'm not a gamer so I don't know whether most games are designed for video or PC levels but I'd suspect many games are at video levels as well.



Edit 2/16: The settings were subsequently revised and are no longer at PC levels.
 

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Discussion Starter #3

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat /forum/post/12938781


These settings are at PC levels and aren't necessarily a good idea for video sources such as BD, HDDVD, DVD and TV. I'm not a gamer so I don't know whether most games are designed for video or PC levels but I'd suspect many games are at video levels as well.

not a good idea? meaning what, my 5080 will suffer damage? i've tried many other settings configurations and the settings i've arrived at are the best to my eyes for gaming, hd-dvd, and blu-ray with the 360 and ps3. sure, they aren't perfect but they look great to me in my low lit media room. just throwing them out there for others to try. the only way you can know if they look good or not is to try them
but your mind is probably already made up that they can't look right
 

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If a recommendation is given "because it looks better" that also happens to be technically incorrect then a caveat should also be provided.


Expanding video levels to PC levels is never technically correct.
 

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I purchased a 5080 last week (on sale @ BB + 10% off---can't beat that!) and I've played with a couple types of settings. Tried D-Nice's, the "ISF" settings from plasma tv buying guide .com, and my own few tweaks.


I won't lie, it's hard to choose because on the Pio everything looks great



But these settings look much better than anything I've tried so far on my PS3 games + Blu-Ray. Thanks a ton!!
 

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Do these settings give you the D65 look of a softer picture which is OK in daytime viewing, but much in nighttime viewing or low light?


When I get a chance I will take some pictures of my PS3 and 360.


I use my 360 over VGA and PS3 over HDMI, I don't have an HDMI 360 but would be keen to get one at some point.


I have my PS3 set to PC mode, then have it configured to D65 settings listed on another site. The picture looks similar to the D65 settings I've seen when not on PC mode, except it prevents overscanning which I prefer.


360 does a 1:1 pixel over VGA so I prefer that over component as I can't get rid of overscan with component.
 

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Kurofan,


Wow! Thanks! I was looking for a post just like this. Just to be sure, this only applies, inter alia, to the Xbox 360 Elite and not the component version, correct?
 

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Discussion Starter #8

Quote:
Originally Posted by clemsontiger2010 /forum/post/12940532


I purchased a 5080 last week (on sale @ BB + 10% off---can't beat that!) and I've played with a couple types of settings. Tried D-Nice's, the "ISF" settings from plasma tv buying guide .com, and my own few tweaks.


I won't lie, it's hard to choose because on the Pio everything looks great



But these settings look much better than anything I've tried so far on my PS3 games + Blu-Ray. Thanks a ton!!

very glad to help! good to know that someone else is happy with these settings
i too went through gobs of settings and found these to be the best for my viewing environment. although some dislike them for technical reasons, they "appear" best to my eyes...for now...heheh.
 

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Discussion Starter #9

Quote:
Originally Posted by liquidsense /forum/post/12940838


Kurofan,


Wow! Thanks! I was looking for a post just like this. Just to be sure, this only applies, inter alia, to the Xbox 360 Elite and not the component version, correct?

yes, unfortunately, these settings are only for 360s with an HDMI output...which nowadays includes every current model - arcade, pro, elite, etc.


if you do have a component version of the 360, your next best option is probably VGA. not sure how these settings would translate to VGA, but give it a go and let me know!
 

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Discussion Starter #10

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokenz /forum/post/12940829


Do these settings give you the D65 look of a softer picture which is OK in daytime viewing, but much in nighttime viewing or low light?


When I get a chance I will take some pictures of my PS3 and 360.


I use my 360 over VGA and PS3 over HDMI, I don't have an HDMI 360 but would be keen to get one at some point.


I have my PS3 set to PC mode, then have it configured to D65 settings listed on another site. The picture looks similar to the D65 settings I've seen when not on PC mode, except it prevents overscanning which I prefer.


360 does a 1:1 pixel over VGA so I prefer that over component as I can't get rid of overscan with component.

i'd say give these settings a try for your PS3 in video mode, not PC mode. i had used PC mode on a previous 5080 and for me the biggest disadvantage is not being able to use the Orbiter. The Orbiter really is nice for minimizing IR and burn-in. with the RGB 0-255 settings i've posted here, HDMI in Video mode with the PS3 and Xbox 360 looks very nice indeed. give it a shot and post back. everything just seems to "pop" more and have more "depth."
 

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Discussion Starter #11

Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcat /forum/post/12939766


If a recommendation is given "because it looks better" that also happens to be technically incorrect then a caveat should also be provided.


Expanding video levels to PC levels is never technically correct.

so be it. but the feedback is starting to roll in that these settings "look better" with the xbox 360 and ps3 over hdmi. thx for caring and looking out for us "non-technical" kuro fans
 

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how about SD DVD settings? I can't select cinema modes when playing SD discs, don't I want at least standard for that?


My ps3 is @ 1080p/24hz/RGB & FULL, upscale normal, frame noise reduction 1, block noise reduction off
 

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You can't select it because when your PS3 is upscaling to 1080p, it does it at 1080p/60 and for some reason the set doesn't allow cinema mode at that res and hz rate.


also just wondering in general. isn't game mode designed to have faster processing of the signal so that there is less or no noticeable gaming lag? wouldn't setting it to user make the processing slower, or is this just a myth?
 

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Discussion Starter #14

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokenz /forum/post/12952573


You can't select it because when your PS3 is upscaling to 1080p, it does it at 1080p/60 and for some reason the set doesn't allow cinema mode at that res and hz rate.


also just wondering in general. isn't game mode designed to have faster processing of the signal so that there is less or no noticeable gaming lag? wouldn't setting it to user make the processing slower, or is this just a myth?

i don't have any noticeable lag when using User instead of Game mode.
 

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Discussion Starter #15

Quote:
Originally Posted by smokenz /forum/post/12952573


You can't select it because when your PS3 is upscaling to 1080p, it does it at 1080p/60 and for some reason the set doesn't allow cinema mode at that res and hz rate.


also just wondering in general. isn't game mode designed to have faster processing of the signal so that there is less or no noticeable gaming lag? wouldn't setting it to user make the processing slower, or is this just a myth?

you have to set the HDMI input to the Cinema Mode you want BEFORE turning on the 360 or PS3. when it's switched on, you cannot adjust it due to the 5080 receiving 1080p/60.
 

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While trying to find the 'ultimate' settings for my setup I've come across some interesting information... it's got the ring of truth to it, but I'd like to see some PS3/Kuro owning people back it up with measurable numbers:


quoted from vgevodotcom/forums/showthread.php?p=83334 (sorry I'm not allowed to post links being a new member, and please forgive if I've overstepped some quoting rules)

Begin Quote:


RGB Settings, and what setting should you use???


I'm stealing this from an excellent post on NeoGaf


Author: andrewfee


"Ok, here's the deal. Televisions are designed to work with a limited range of RGB numbers; 16-235. This means that anything black is output at 16, and white is at 235 RGB.


Monitors on the other hand are designed to work with the full 8-bit RGB range, which is 0-255. 0 being black, 255 being white.


Internally the PS3 is rendering everything using the full RGB range, 0-255. When you are sending a limited signal, the brightness range is compressed and output as 16-235.


16-235 on a properly calibrated television should look virtually identical to 0-255 on a properly calibrated monitor.


However, newer HDTVs may also support the 0-255 range as well as 16-235, and others that are really just big monitors may only support 0-255. Many of these have DVI instead of HDMI, and often a lot of the cheaper brands will work like this.


If you send a display that is expecting the full 0-255 range the limited output then blacks will look grey and whites will be dulled.


On the other-hand if you send a display that is expecting the limited range (most televisions) the full 0-255 range, you will see a big increase in image contrast, but all of your shadow and highlight detail will become pure black and pure white. As you are overdriving the display (sending 255 when it is expecting to only receive 235) you may also see colour shifts with white objects. (they might be tinted red, for example)


Many people perceive this as "better blacks" however the black level itself will not change. If you have a full black screen up it will look identical.


It's all about using the correct signal type for your display. If your screen is expecting limited RGB, then that is what you should be sending it. If you are using a monitor, or a display that is expecting the full range, then you should be sending that.


If your display supports both, then you are best to use Full RGB. As I mentioned earlier, the PS3 will be rendering internally using 0-255 and then compressing the range to 16-235 for limited. This means that there are only 219 steps of brightness vs 255 so gradations are potentially going to be smoother if you are using full RGB. The "blacks" or colour reproduction should look the same on either setting, the only change is potentially a slightly smoother image.


So how do you find out what your display supports? Well if you're hooked up to a monitor, it's 99% certain that it will be expecting a Full RGB signal.


So how do you know if your TV supports it? TVs generally have a hard cut-off on the 16-235 range, turning anything outside that to pure black / pure white. (eg 15 would be jet black, no matter how high you set brightness)


Make sure your PS3 is set to limited and download this image onto a memory stick, load it up in the PS3 browser etc:

sr-388.net/images/patterns/Brightness.jpg


Turn up the brightness control on your display until you can (hopefully) see all four numbers. (1% grey, 2% etc) Assuming you can see all four, adjust brightness to the point where 1 is just about to turn solid black. (if the lowest number you can see is 2, then adjust it until that is almost black)


Now, enable Full RGB. If your screen supports it, you should still be able to read the same numbers. If not, it will turn pure black. However, many TVs that support both won't auto-switch between the two, so you may need to check your TV's menus for a "black level" setting. (may be called something different) If you have that, change it and you should see the numbers pop back up onscreen.


If you can't see the numbers at all when you enable Full RGB and don't have any options that bring them back, you should be using limited. If you can still see them all, you're probably fine using Full RGB.


If you do use Full RGB, check your contrast setting is ok. If it is set too high, you may not be able to see the 99, 98, 97, 96% grey in this image:

sr-388.net/images/patterns/Contrast.jpg


Note: Just because you may be able to max out contrast and still see all the numbers does not mean that is the correct setting. This can only tell you if it's clipping highlight detail, not if it's too bright.


AzianFury's post is a great example of how things should be. His TV supports both and has an option to switch between them. Limited/Limited looks virtually identical to Full/Full, which is how it is supposed to be. Full on the PS3 and Limited shows what happens when things are set wrongly. The TV produces a more vibrant, higher contrast image, but will be destroying all shadow and highlight detail. Notice how the greens are starting to look a bit "neon" and unnatural - this is a result of the display being overdriven."

End Quote



It also appears (from what I've read from other sources) the best settings for BD movies would in fact be YCrCb 4:4:4 with superwhite (on) since this is native to filmmaking and conversion would have to be made to output in RGB?
 

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Discussion Starter #17

Quote:
Originally Posted by sfoodawg /forum/post/12956643


While trying to find the 'ultimate' settings for my setup I've come across some interesting information... it's got the ring of truth to it, but I'd like to see some PS3/Kuro owning people back it up with measurable numbers:


quoted from vgevodotcom/forums/showthread.php?p=83334 (sorry I'm not allowed to post links being a new member, and please forgive if I've overstepped some quoting rules)

Begin Quote:


RGB Settings, and what setting should you use???


I'm stealing this from an excellent post on NeoGaf


Author: andrewfee


"Ok, here's the deal. Televisions are designed to work with a limited range of RGB numbers; 16-235. This means that anything black is output at 16, and white is at 235 RGB.


Monitors on the other hand are designed to work with the full 8-bit RGB range, which is 0-255. 0 being black, 255 being white.


Internally the PS3 is rendering everything using the full RGB range, 0-255. When you are sending a limited signal, the brightness range is compressed and output as 16-235.


16-235 on a properly calibrated television should look virtually identical to 0-255 on a properly calibrated monitor.


However, newer HDTVs may also support the 0-255 range as well as 16-235, and others that are really just big monitors may only support 0-255. Many of these have DVI instead of HDMI, and often a lot of the cheaper brands will work like this.


If you send a display that is expecting the full 0-255 range the limited output then blacks will look grey and whites will be dulled.


On the other-hand if you send a display that is expecting the limited range (most televisions) the full 0-255 range, you will see a big increase in image contrast, but all of your shadow and highlight detail will become pure black and pure white. As you are overdriving the display (sending 255 when it is expecting to only receive 235) you may also see colour shifts with white objects. (they might be tinted red, for example)


Many people perceive this as "better blacks" however the black level itself will not change. If you have a full black screen up it will look identical.


It's all about using the correct signal type for your display. If your screen is expecting limited RGB, then that is what you should be sending it. If you are using a monitor, or a display that is expecting the full range, then you should be sending that.


If your display supports both, then you are best to use Full RGB. As I mentioned earlier, the PS3 will be rendering internally using 0-255 and then compressing the range to 16-235 for limited. This means that there are only 219 steps of brightness vs 255 so gradations are potentially going to be smoother if you are using full RGB. The "blacks" or colour reproduction should look the same on either setting, the only change is potentially a slightly smoother image.


So how do you find out what your display supports? Well if you're hooked up to a monitor, it's 99% certain that it will be expecting a Full RGB signal.


So how do you know if your TV supports it? TVs generally have a hard cut-off on the 16-235 range, turning anything outside that to pure black / pure white. (eg 15 would be jet black, no matter how high you set brightness)


Make sure your PS3 is set to limited and download this image onto a memory stick, load it up in the PS3 browser etc:

sr-388.net/images/patterns/Brightness.jpg


Turn up the brightness control on your display until you can (hopefully) see all four numbers. (1% grey, 2% etc) Assuming you can see all four, adjust brightness to the point where 1 is just about to turn solid black. (if the lowest number you can see is 2, then adjust it until that is almost black)


Now, enable Full RGB. If your screen supports it, you should still be able to read the same numbers. If not, it will turn pure black. However, many TVs that support both won't auto-switch between the two, so you may need to check your TV's menus for a "black level" setting. (may be called something different) If you have that, change it and you should see the numbers pop back up onscreen.


If you can't see the numbers at all when you enable Full RGB and don't have any options that bring them back, you should be using limited. If you can still see them all, you're probably fine using Full RGB.


If you do use Full RGB, check your contrast setting is ok. If it is set too high, you may not be able to see the 99, 98, 97, 96% grey in this image:

sr-388.net/images/patterns/Contrast.jpg


Note: Just because you may be able to max out contrast and still see all the numbers does not mean that is the correct setting. This can only tell you if it's clipping highlight detail, not if it's too bright.


AzianFury's post is a great example of how things should be. His TV supports both and has an option to switch between them. Limited/Limited looks virtually identical to Full/Full, which is how it is supposed to be. Full on the PS3 and Limited shows what happens when things are set wrongly. The TV produces a more vibrant, higher contrast image, but will be destroying all shadow and highlight detail. Notice how the greens are starting to look a bit "neon" and unnatural - this is a result of the display being overdriven."

End Quote



It also appears (from what I've read from other sources) the best settings for BD movies would in fact be YCrCb 4:4:4 with superwhite (on) since this is native to filmmaking and conversion would have to be made to output in RGB?

the 5080 supports RGB 0-255, hence the color-4 setting under options->hdmi input->video. so if you set your ps3 to output 0-255, you are matching things up, correct? looks good to me. thx for the helpful read!
 

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Do any of these settings apply to a break-in period. Would it be unwise for me to use some of these settings while breaking-in a new 5080? In other words, using Full RGB settings?
 

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so you could use either on your Kuro unit:


xbox 360 set standard reference levels (16-235)

&

pioneer hdmi set to color3 setting (16-235)


or


Xbox 360 set to expanded reference levels (0-255)

&

pioneer hdmi set to color4 setting (0-255)


Either will give you a full range of color as long as you are matching up the settings properly ... pure black to pure white, however I will choose 0-255 on each, as it will give more steps/graduations, maybe smoother color shade transitions.
 

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Discussion Starter #20

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snurb /forum/post/12961557


Do any of these settings apply to a break-in period. Would it be unwise for me to use some of these settings while breaking-in a new 5080? In other words, using Full RGB settings?

You are safe to use these settings, but I still recommend using the Standard settings that D-Nice has posted for the break-in DVD. I use the Full RGB settings for normal usage...movies, gaming, etc. But overnight, I run the break-in dvd and use the Standard settings. I'm around 150 hours total on my panel, with the majority of them set at Standard. I did some gaming last night with Madden 08 as well as some arcade titles and NBA Homecourt. There was some IR that was easily washed away using the break-in DVD.
 
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