Its a $400 reciever, its a very good one for $400, but it sounds like you are looking for something a little better. Since its such a great deal at teh price point, you'll probably need to save your money for something you like better at a higher price point....
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Pioneer 1014 musical?
I decided to get on the 1014 bandwagon but now I'm not so sure. If the unit was exclusively for home theater then I would be very happy, but I also really enjoy straight music out of my system as well.
I'm using the 1014 with Paradigm 5se fronts, 3se surrounds, and cc-300 center. As a point of reference, I started out with this system as 2-channel with the 5se's with a Yamaha 70x2 receiver from the Dolby Surround era, then moved to a Sherwood 6108 100x5 surround receiver as a low-cost entry into surround sound. I felt like I lost some detail and smoothness going to the Sherwood, but it did a decent job with movies and I was still satisfied with it for music , too, especially it's smooth midrange for female vocals, which I felt matched well with the Paradigms.
So, now with the 1014, the sound is definitely much more detailed and crisp and much smoother than the Sherwood. For movies, it sounds great. But somehow, for music, it just seems very sterile sounding. I've tried a variety of recordings and the 1014 makes pop music so antiseptic and *too* precise. (which I never thought I'd use in a negative sense) With acoustically recorded vocals, it's somewhat better but still doesn't seem to present in a musically involving way.
At first I thought it was a matter of burn-in. For the first 3 days, I ran the thing continuously, either with me listening to music, watching movies, or running white noise from the antennaless tuner at -25. This seemed to improve its smoothness a bit, but it still seemed too bright.
So I started playing with the MCACC auto-eq settings and every combination of large/small/sub on/plus, etc. The auto-eq did fix some problems that I wasn't consciously aware of previously...like my center channel had a slightly congested sound in the lower vocal region that is made obvious by turning the EQ on and off, probably a room resonance from the corner it is in. Also, in stereo mode, I couldn't get to sound levels that I'd consider loud without the treble taking on a painful sibilance or harshness (depending on the nature of the music selection). I started by turning down the 14kHz EQ by 0.5dB steps on both the L and R (from where Auto EQ had set them) until I got to -1.5dB from the auto setting. This helped the treble problem but not completely. The female midrange vocals also did not have the smoothness that I'd loved before, so I then turned down the 4kHz EQ -1.0dB from the auto setting and that helped alot, though not to my complete satisfaction.
So at this point, I think I'm ok with the tonal balance though I may tweak the EQ settings more. The imaging seems too precise with studio recordings. Something about the sound just doesn't seem musical in the way that the Yamaha and even the Sherwood were, even though the consciously discernable characteristics of the sound are better.
I really want to love this receiver, because it has the features I want at a great price, but I can't find it in me yet. The next steps up for equivalent features would seem to be the Marantz 7500 or HK 635, which I understand have a warmer sound that I now think I may be partial to, but they are also over twice the price.
I'd be interested to hear what other music lovers have to say if they've listened to the 1014 critically. I'd also like to hear any other setup or tweaking advice that I've overlooked.
Thanks in advance...
I'm using the 1014 with Paradigm 5se fronts, 3se surrounds, and cc-300 center. As a point of reference, I started out with this system as 2-channel with the 5se's with a Yamaha 70x2 receiver from the Dolby Surround era, then moved to a Sherwood 6108 100x5 surround receiver as a low-cost entry into surround sound. I felt like I lost some detail and smoothness going to the Sherwood, but it did a decent job with movies and I was still satisfied with it for music , too, especially it's smooth midrange for female vocals, which I felt matched well with the Paradigms.
So, now with the 1014, the sound is definitely much more detailed and crisp and much smoother than the Sherwood. For movies, it sounds great. But somehow, for music, it just seems very sterile sounding. I've tried a variety of recordings and the 1014 makes pop music so antiseptic and *too* precise. (which I never thought I'd use in a negative sense) With acoustically recorded vocals, it's somewhat better but still doesn't seem to present in a musically involving way.
At first I thought it was a matter of burn-in. For the first 3 days, I ran the thing continuously, either with me listening to music, watching movies, or running white noise from the antennaless tuner at -25. This seemed to improve its smoothness a bit, but it still seemed too bright.
So I started playing with the MCACC auto-eq settings and every combination of large/small/sub on/plus, etc. The auto-eq did fix some problems that I wasn't consciously aware of previously...like my center channel had a slightly congested sound in the lower vocal region that is made obvious by turning the EQ on and off, probably a room resonance from the corner it is in. Also, in stereo mode, I couldn't get to sound levels that I'd consider loud without the treble taking on a painful sibilance or harshness (depending on the nature of the music selection). I started by turning down the 14kHz EQ by 0.5dB steps on both the L and R (from where Auto EQ had set them) until I got to -1.5dB from the auto setting. This helped the treble problem but not completely. The female midrange vocals also did not have the smoothness that I'd loved before, so I then turned down the 4kHz EQ -1.0dB from the auto setting and that helped alot, though not to my complete satisfaction.
So at this point, I think I'm ok with the tonal balance though I may tweak the EQ settings more. The imaging seems too precise with studio recordings. Something about the sound just doesn't seem musical in the way that the Yamaha and even the Sherwood were, even though the consciously discernable characteristics of the sound are better.
I really want to love this receiver, because it has the features I want at a great price, but I can't find it in me yet. The next steps up for equivalent features would seem to be the Marantz 7500 or HK 635, which I understand have a warmer sound that I now think I may be partial to, but they are also over twice the price.
I'd be interested to hear what other music lovers have to say if they've listened to the 1014 critically. I'd also like to hear any other setup or tweaking advice that I've overlooked.
Thanks in advance...
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You could always use the 1014 TX as a pre-amp and just use a tube amp with the front l/r. This would give you some of that smooth tube distortion and not be so detailed. I am not mocking you here. I happen to think most tube amps pleasantly color the sound.
Amplifiers are always so subjective. Some people love detail saying that a certain receiver removes a veil from the sound. Others tend to like some smoothing like a nice tube amp.
Amplifiers are always so subjective. Some people love detail saying that a certain receiver removes a veil from the sound. Others tend to like some smoothing like a nice tube amp.
Have you done any treatments to your room?
If the room was set up to sound good with the other equipment, it may need some changes to sound good with the Pioneer.
Deron.
If the room was set up to sound good with the other equipment, it may need some changes to sound good with the Pioneer.
Deron.
Maybe the 1014 just isn't musical 
.
Yeah, maybe the 1014 just sucks!!!
Yeah, maybe the 1014 just sucks!!!
I had the 1014 and had the same problem, I just couldn't get the sound that I wanted out of it. The highs were too bright and I couldn't get the the sub to output hardly anything, no matter which settings I tried. I wanted to like it but it just didn't work for me. I ended up taking it back and getting a HK AVR335 and I was amazed at the sound difference, I'm not trying to knock the 1014 but HK Rocks!I think it was the whole equalization being set to flat with the MCACC, the sound just didn't appeal to me.
Hey! We only need 1 person playing devil's advocate and that's me
Seriously though, I doubt there is any significant difference in sound from the Pioneer to the H&K. If you hear one then it's probably a setup error.
Seriously though, I doubt there is any significant difference in sound from the Pioneer to the H&K. If you hear one then it's probably a setup error.
What source equipment are you using to play this music and how is it connected to the 1014?
Quote:
The source is a Panasonic CV51 5-disc DVD changer connected via optical digital out.
I haven't done anything in particular in terms of room treatments.
Also, I'm surprised that somebody would say there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the 1014 and the HK 635 at twice the price, especially since I'm always hearing about the HK's warm tonal character.
Frankly, I don't think my expectations are too high really...I mean, I am comparing the musicality of the $400 1014 against the $70 Sherwood...and somehow the Sherwood seemed to have better musical character, even though the Pioneer is definitely smoother and better in most observable aspects. I'm gonna hook up the Sherwood again to do a more direct comparison, but I'm still open to more advice if anybody has any.
| Originally posted by cwb4tx What source equipment are you using to play this music and how is it connected to the 1014? |
I haven't done anything in particular in terms of room treatments.
Also, I'm surprised that somebody would say there wouldn't be a noticeable difference between the 1014 and the HK 635 at twice the price, especially since I'm always hearing about the HK's warm tonal character.
Frankly, I don't think my expectations are too high really...I mean, I am comparing the musicality of the $400 1014 against the $70 Sherwood...and somehow the Sherwood seemed to have better musical character, even though the Pioneer is definitely smoother and better in most observable aspects. I'm gonna hook up the Sherwood again to do a more direct comparison, but I'm still open to more advice if anybody has any.
Was the sherwood hooked up with optical to the CD as well?
Have you tried line level connections from CD to AVR for the 1014?
Have you tried line level connections from CD to AVR for the 1014?
I have been very happy with the musicality of the 1014. I listen to a lot of music, and I play in a band, and I find nothing lacking with the Pio. I'm running JBL Northridges with an SVS sub, and I can tell you the bass is all there, along with clear midrange and perfect treble. It's a pleasure to sit in that room and listen to music.
If you can not get the sub to output anything, I would have to say it is the monkey under the hood that is the problem
I would suggest the only way to do a good shoot out would be to have a A/B set up where you can instantly switch between receivers.
Doing a comparison can be hard to do if not done right. I for one, could listen to some music in the morning and then listen to the same music off the same system at a different time and it could sound better or worse. Every wake up to music? That is when music sounds the best to me, a incredible differance!
Deron.
I would suggest the only way to do a good shoot out would be to have a A/B set up where you can instantly switch between receivers.
Doing a comparison can be hard to do if not done right. I for one, could listen to some music in the morning and then listen to the same music off the same system at a different time and it could sound better or worse. Every wake up to music? That is when music sounds the best to me, a incredible differance!
Deron.
Quote:
the sherwood was hooked up via optical as well. nothing in the system has changed except for the receiver. i haven't tried line connections, but i don't really have much confidence in the da converters in the panasonic vs those in the pioneer. anyhow, i'll restarted the burn-in with white noise and will do some more tweaking of the eq settings.
| Originally posted by cwb4tx Was the sherwood hooked up with optical to the CD as well? Have you tried line level connections from CD to AVR for the 1014? |
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