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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,


I'm not flaming nor do I want to start a which is better thread, I'm just puzzled about my experience that follows.


I finally decided on the Pioneer PDP-5070/1, but wanted to look one more time to make sure. So went to BB yesterday where the 5070/1 was right next to the Samsung HP-S5053. The feeds were the same, typical views of various subjects football, mountain scenes etc and my conclusion was that the Samsung was much sharper to my eyes then the Pioneer in every scene, which amazed me. For example you could see individual strands of hair on the Samsung and on the Pioneer it was sort of soft and not nearly as sharp.


I know that viewing at a store is not the best place to evaluate a TV but that's all I/we have available. If all things are equal and as far as I could tell they were, the Samsung offered me the sharpest picture. This is now a concern and I'm questioning my choice again.


Could it be that the Pioneer was incorrectly adjusted and could that adjustment be that far off?


I never considered purchasing a large ticket item on the internet but I was so set on the Pioneer (prior to viewing the above two sets) and because local BB and CC prices are not coming down much that yesterday I finally called all of the Forum Sponsors and was quoted large savings over the B&M's.


I really want the Pioneer but in this instance the Samsung was better, any thoughts?


What would make the Pioneer less sharp and softer?


Is the Pioneer a little softer overall?


Hay, I'm 74 and my eyes are not what they use to be but I could readily see the difference in the sharpness/softness I experienced yesterday.


Hell, I don't want to make a mistake this could be my last big ticket purchase???


I guess I just want to be talked into the Pioneer again but yesterday it was no contest.


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

---Jerry---
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrymac /forum/post/0


Hello,


I'm not flaming nor do I want to start a which is better thread, I'm just puzzled about my experience that follows.


I finally decided on the Pioneer PDP-5070/1, but wanted to look one more time to make sure. So went to BB yesterday where the 5070/1 was right next to the Samsung HP-S5053. The feeds were the same, typical views of various subjects football, mountain scenes etc and my conclusion was that the Samsung was much sharper to my eyes then the Pioneer in every scene, which amazed me. For example you could see individual strands of hair on the Samsung and on the Pioneer it was sort of soft and not nearly as sharp.


I know that viewing at a store is not the best place to evaluate a TV but that's all I/we have available. If all things are equal and as far as I could tell they were, the Samsung offered me the sharpest picture. This is now a concern and I'm questioning my choice again.


Could it be that the Pioneer was incorrectly adjusted and could that adjustment be that far off?


I never considered purchasing a large ticket item on the internet but I was so set on the Pioneer (prior to viewing the above two sets) and because local BB and CC prices are not coming down much that yesterday I finally called all of the Forum Sponsors and was quoted large savings over the B&M's.


I really want the Pioneer but in this instance the Samsung was better, any thoughts?


What would make the Pioneer less sharp and softer?


Is the Pioneer a little softer overall?


Hay, I'm 74 and my eyes are not what they use to be but I could readily see the difference in the sharpness/softness I experienced yesterday.


Hell, I don't want to make a mistake this could be my last big ticket purchase???


I guess I just want to be talked into the Pioneer again but yesterday it was no contest.


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

---Jerry---

Jerry,


Go back and get hold of the remotes for each display. Play around with the adjustments to see whether they have an effect. Use a custom mode, not vivid, dynamic or some such and run through all the settings. If after this the Pioneer still looks too soft for your taste, get a Panny or Sammy. Personally though I would opt for a NEC over all of these including the Pioneer.


Until you have verified the adjustments, comparisons or judgements are meaningless. You might also ask your question about Pioneer sharpness in the Calibration forum as many ISF calibrators are there and may be able to offer an experienced and critical opinion. I for one would love to hear what they have to say.


BTW I have also noticed a softness, lack of texture on surfaces for example, on at least some Pioneers in some stores. You have me curious.


One other trait to look for is overscan. Look at the picture edge to see how much of a picture is visable. I noticed that a Sammy cut off more, significantly more, of the picture than a Pioneer or Panny in one store where I looked for this.


Please let us know what you find.


Cheers,



Gary
 

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Yup, the sammy is sharper than the pioneer. In fact, I've even found that the pannys tend to be a tad sharper than the pioneer. That said, you can crank up the sharpness quite a bit on the pioneer before you run into edge enhancement artifacts such as halos, etc. But it still won't quite get to the sammy level (IMO).


But... I had pretty much reached the same conclusion as you & even brought the sammy home... I mean, HD, come on, we should be able to count the hairs on a fly, right? I ended up taking the sammy back and getting a 5070 & have been very happy with my decision.


I find it to be a much more lifelike picture & does much better with my cable feed. And I have (on several occasions) have my wife stand next to the pioneer & compared her to the image on screen (trying to get shots with approximately the same head size & lighting). I found that even the "soft" pioneer is actually sharper than real life. I can see details on the actresses faces that I can't see on my wifes untill I get closer to her.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks to both for the replies and the information.


As suggested I re-posted this in the Display Calibration forum and will report back.


Was so happy that I finally made a decision and now ???


To be honest after comparing many HDTV's (SXRD - DPL - LCD - PLASMA) the Samsungs were at the top or very near in almost every case.


So why don't I just buy the Samsung and be done with it? Well for a couple of reasons, first: SD picture quality on Pioneer are said to be above average and we still watch a lot of SD content. Second: many rate Pioneer very high. Third: All sets have one problem or another but Pioneer seems to have less. There are others but will keep this post short.


What I am looking for is the best picture quality with the fewest problems, probably not attainable.


Thanks again for your replies.

---Jerry---
 

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Jerry I can really relate to you.

I wasn't really interested in plasma or LCD until about a year ago. Then I saw a then pioneer 930. I was blown away and knew I was going to buy it. After several months of waiting, pioneer replaced the 930 with the 940. I then saw the samsung 4273 right next to the 940 at bestbuy. I was all set to buy the pioneer but my eyes kept telling me the samsung had the more natural picture.

The pioneer still looked good and it seemed to have maybe slightly more shadow detail. Also the samsung had just a little more overscan. In other espects though the samsung beat it. Both sets are beautiful and by themselves would not disappoint but I bought the samsung because I was truly impressed with it's natural colors.

The 4273 also came with a 2 years parts and labor warranty so it helped to seal the decision.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by why2not /forum/post/0


That said, you can crank up the sharpness quite a bit on the pioneer before you run into false contouring, etc.

Don't you mean, edge-enhancement artifacts?
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerrymac /forum/post/0


Hello,


I'm not flaming nor do I want to start a which is better thread, I'm just puzzled about my experience that follows.


I finally decided on the Pioneer PDP-5070/1, but wanted to look one more time to make sure. So went to BB yesterday where the 5070/1 was right next to the Samsung HP-S5053. The feeds were the same, typical views of various subjects football, mountain scenes etc and my conclusion was that the Samsung was much sharper to my eyes then the Pioneer in every scene, which amazed me. For example you could see individual strands of hair on the Samsung and on the Pioneer it was sort of soft and not nearly as sharp.


I know that viewing at a store is not the best place to evaluate a TV but that's all I/we have available. If all things are equal and as far as I could tell they were, the Samsung offered me the sharpest picture. This is now a concern and I'm questioning my choice again.


Could it be that the Pioneer was incorrectly adjusted and could that adjustment be that far off?


I never considered purchasing a large ticket item on the internet but I was so set on the Pioneer (prior to viewing the above two sets) and because local BB and CC prices are not coming down much that yesterday I finally called all of the Forum Sponsors and was quoted large savings over the B&M's.


I really want the Pioneer but in this instance the Samsung was better, any thoughts?


What would make the Pioneer less sharp and softer?


Is the Pioneer a little softer overall?


Hay, I'm 74 and my eyes are not what they use to be but I could readily see the difference in the sharpness/softness I experienced yesterday.


Hell, I don't want to make a mistake this could be my last big ticket purchase???


I guess I just want to be talked into the Pioneer again but yesterday it was no contest.


Any help or advice would be greatly appreciated.

---Jerry---


The pioneer "softness" is due to the factory settings. Just go into the Pro adjust menu and turn the NR and mpegNR settings to "off". Then increase the sharpness and contrast settings a bit and you should get a crisp sharp image that is equivilent to the Sammy or Panny.
 

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Quote:
Originally Posted by xrox /forum/post/0


The pioneer "softness" is due to the factory settings. Just go into the Pro adjust menu and turn the NR and mpegNR settings to "off". Then increase the sharpness and contrast settings a bit and you should get a crisp sharp image that is equivilent to the Sammy or Panny.

Thanks for this important information. I knew it had to be something like this but was not sure just what. Too many knowledgeable people and calibrators admire the Pioneer for it to have a picture like you see in most stores.


Cheers,



Gary
 

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Yep, The Samsung is sharper. I had the $$ to buy the Pioneer, and wanted to buy the Pioneer. After MUCH trial on many different sets, I coudn't get over the sharpness of the Samsung. I was buying the set for HD, and I wanted SHARPNESS. Bought the Samsung HP-5073 and couldn't be happier. Saved a few bucks too.
 
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