[zenith2525]

In regard to automatic chapter insertion with recordings made with the 510:

I recorded a one hour program to the hard drive today from a VHS source in 'SP' mode with auto chapter set to every 10 minutes.

When I went to view the title from the hard drive after recording, it appears that it was recorded as one single chapter. Can anyone here tell me why that is and what to do set-up wise in order for the auto-chapter insertion to work?

I am referring to be able to use the chapter skip button an any given recording.

Are the chapters only automatically inserted when you transfer to a dvd-r/w?

It looks like this might be the case and then only in real-time dubbing do they get this treatment. Confused. Help?

(Also, one thing I would have preferred in this unit is the ability to mark chapters at 5 min intervals)

 

[zenith2525]

.. And one other thing. It seems to only insert these chapter markers automatically whn doing real-time dubs (which as we know involves taking a hit in quality on the recode)

This is not good news. Mike?

 

[zenith2525]

Ok, so in order to have chapter markers on a video-mode dvd-r/w (allowing one to hit 'next' upon playback and have the disc skip ahed either 10 or 15 minutes into the title), you seem to only have 2 choices:


#1 Insert chapters manually into the recording on your 'copy list'

#2 Real-Time Dub (No High-Speed) your title/s to dvd-r/w


With #1, will the dreaded pauses/freezes occur at the manually inserted chapter points upon playback?

 

[Mike Up]

I commented to you about this in the other thread. This is normal, the E80H operates the same. You also have to set the navi mark manually as the automatic time interval is void when high speed dubbing to DVD-R/W. Like I said, this is normal as the E80H does the same. In fact if the thread had your name replaced with mine and the unit's name replaced with the E80H, the post would be a mirror of my post when I first bought the E80H.


This is no biggy. It takes only about 3 more minutes then the chapters are all customized where "WE" want them, not the machine.


As good as these forums are, you never really get the overall feel until you own one. This situation is common yet it's never really been frequently discussed here with the majority being DMR-E80H owners!! Auditioning and use is the only true way of really knowing a product.


Have a good one.

 

[Mike Up]

Quote:

With #1, will the dreaded pauses/freezes occur at the manually inserted chapter points upon playback?

Of course not, chapter marking isn't editing. And only editing where a deleted chapter or a divided title has been, will there be a slight pause. Then you could do the re-encode in real time as you stated to make it seamless.


Man, I thought I was bad about finding fault with everything.


Have a good one.

 

[zenith2525]

re: "Man, I thought I was bad about finding fault with everything."


I'll give you a run for your money in that department


Thanks Mike


At least it's good to know that we can insert chapter markers manually .. with the only downside being that we can only dub these titles to dvd-r/rw in real time and not high speed.


Do you know then if the frame-accurate should then just be set to 'on' and auto-chapter to 'off' (since we want the chapter markings we made to be inserted as opposed to having them inserted automatically)


Sorry, but it's mighty confusing

 

[BASHERS33]

Ahhhhhhhhhhh, you can't even record to dvd-r at high speeds if you cut out commercials? Every time I think I make a decision... This somewhat makes the HDD less important. It would take double time to transfer vhs tapes. If I want to record 100 hours, it would take 100 to put them on the HDD, editing time, then 100 more to copy them to discs??? That is possibly even more annoying than getting the Sony and cutting out commercials by pausing the recorder. The HDD would be nice for recording things that will only be kept temporarily. But it sounds like it will be as much of a pain to copy vhs tapes with this as it would be for the Sony. At least I could go do other things while it is recording though I suppose.

 

[zenith2525]

Actually, you can high-speed dub edited content as in where you have 'divided' and in essence cut out commercials. With the 510 you just 'divide' the program thereby creating a seperate title of the commercial .. title of which you can just easily erase on your copy list and then high speed dub.

Rather, what I am referring to is the chapter markers that allow one to skip ahead 10 or 15 minutes throughout the title with a push of the 'next' or 'previous' or 'chapter skip' buttons on a remote. From what I have now gathered, these are only inserted (either automatically or where you have manually placed them after recording) into a subsequent dvd-r/rw copy using real-time dub as opposed to high-speed.

 

[BASHERS33]

oh, ok. I was thinking you had to make the commercials a separate chapter, not a separate title. Why must it dub in real time if chapter marks are made and not if you do it the other way though? Just wondering... I sure hope Mike Up does not find all of these other negatives right when I put in my order. lol I have PAINFULLY narrowed my choices down to this or the Sony already. And with the rebate, I could either save $100 or I could buy a dvd player that would play the discs and have zoom.

 

[kacang]

basher,


I think you can high speed copy titles with chapters, I have cut out commercials in the chp edit and after that high speed copied them to the DVD, no problem.


However, when using high speed copy it copies the files and does not do any encoding as in a normal transfer. Thus when the file is copied to DVD AS IS, it can't insert chapter markers. When doing a normal transfer IT CAN.


SO what I do as I think mikeUp said. I play the title, fast forward on scan4 and hit the chp mark Twice (the first time it will change from fast forward to normal play but not put on the chpater marker).


then repeat again scan4, and hit the chp mark twice. I have display on so I can see the time elapsed. I put chp markers roughly every 10 minutes, don't care too much if it is 11:03 or 10:20 or whatever, just roughly.


It only takes around 3 minutes for a 1:30 hour movie to set chp markers every ten minutes.


The I set frame accuracy to off, and then copy and choose high speed.


Voila,



erick

 

[BASHERS33]

I'm still a little confused. What is the method that causes it NOT to be able to dub faster? What is the other way of doing it other than doing it the way you do? Sorry, I get confused easily on these issues.

 

[Mike Up]

I guess I wasn't clear enough. You don't have to do a real time dub. If there is deleted content and you want the playback to be seamless, without brief pauses where the deleted content was edited at, a real-time dub is then needed. Otherwise, if the slight pauses don't bother you, you can high speed dub. This is exactly the same thing that happens on the Panasonic DMR-E80H and DMR-E100H. It's not a problem but the way these recorders work with MPEG2.


To get rid of commercials, here's what to do.


Chapter mark the beginning of a commercial and then chapter mark the end of the commercial. Then go into chapter editing and delete the chapter that contains those commercials. Pretty simple IMO, although you will get a slight pause if you high speed dub the program.


As far as manual chapters go, I'm anal, I fast forward to about 9m55sec and let it run up to 10:00, then hit the chapter marker. It's really faster than it sounds unless you have a 6 hour movie. In fact, I think my high speed dubbed DVD is done.


Catch ya later!

 

[BASHERS33]

Well really it will not bother me if it does have slight pauses. In fact I almost would like it. Because I am going to mainly copy 80's tv shows I have. So it would actually be a tad strange to not have at least a momentary pause when it was supposed to be going to commercials. Either way, won't bother me. So everything sounds pretty good to me. I will definitely purchase this if the price is unchanged at the time the rebate goes into effect. I was thinking of getting an extended warranty, but I am not going to. I am thinking after 1 year I wont want the same one anymore anyways.

 

[zenith2525]

Thanks for the info: Let me present a specific example:

Let's say you record a baseball game to the hard drive. You then go through the 'title' (the entire game) and fast forward and manually insert chapter markers at the beginning of each inning. Now, as I understand it, those chapter markers that you inserted will transfer over onto a finalized dvd-r/rw if you choose high-speed dub?

In this scenario, do you know if it matters whether Frame Accurate is 'On' or 'Off'?

And also, what abut the setting for auto-chapters: Should you set it to 'Off'?


Let's take the same baseball game as an example now and let's say you want to edit out commercials. As Mike has illustrated, you just need to go into chapter editing and mark the beginnning and ending of said commercial .. then erase that 'chapter'. However, in this case, in order to not get the slight pauses upon playback, you would need to dub in real time.

Again though in this case, what should your setting be in regard to Frame Accurate? 'On' or Off' ?

 

[kacang]

Quote:

Originally posted by zenith2525 Now, as I understand it, those chapter markers that you inserted will transfer over onto a finalized dvd-r/rw if you choose high-speed dub?

correct, you got it !

Quote:

In this scenario, do you know if it matters whether Frame Accurate is 'On' or 'Off'?

I have found that I can only high speed copy with frame accuracy off, but the manual states that in some cases it doesn't matter. Just try and it will say 'can not high-speed copy', then go back and set frame accuracy off (you loose your copy list, so have to redo it)

Quote:

And also, what about the setting for auto-chapters: Should you set it to 'Off'?

When setting the chapter markers manually it should not matter, IF you copy to a VR mode DVD. Other wise it needs to be set to 'ON' if you want chapters on your DVD-R (video mode) (see the excerpt from the manual at the bottom)


When you set chapter markers before and after the commercial and edit afterwards by removing the chapter that contains the commercial you still end up with the first and the third chapter, which then becomes chapter 1 and 2.


You can NOW either turn off frame accuracy and high-speed copy with the risk that you getting slight pauses or just leave the frame accuracy on and do a 'real-time' dub which supposingly clears up the pauses between the chapter marks. this works only for VR mode DVD's


If you copy to a normal DVD-R in video mode the chaptermarks that you have set are NOT copied. See excerpt from manula below



--------------------------------------------------------------------------

When real-time copying from the HDD to a Video mode

DVD, the chapter markers in the original material are not

copied. Chapter markers are put into the copy at

intervals, according to the Auto Chapter (Video) setting

(see also Auto Chapter (Video) on page 97).

 

[BASHERS33]

ok, now I am confused again. All of my copying would be from the HDD to dvd-r discs. So basically, I still can edit out commercials and then high speed copy to a dvd-r, but I can not make chapter marks anywhere I want? Ir can I not even cut out the commercials if I am copying to dvd-r?

 

[zenith2525]

Yeah, I'm a little confused too .. but at least have the unit here to experiment with. And it looks like there's going to be quite a bit of trial and error to get these discs just the way I want them. So be it.


Apparently (although I have not confirmed this yet personally) you can do high-speed dubbing to dvd-r (video mode=compatible with other players) with hard drive content wherein you manually inserted your chapter markers .. and still have those chapter markers retained when playing back the dvd-r. I really hope this is true!


*I do know that they are automatically inserted (in the intervals you choose from the auto-chapter menu .. 10 or 15 minutes) IF you do a real-time dub*


However, I will want to do high-speed dubs predominately so it looks like I will have to manually insert chapter marks into each title and make sure frame-accurate is set to 'off' to enable high-speed dubbing.

 

[kacang]

guys no need to be confused. In simple words :


1) You can always edit contents on HDD to cut out commercials


When copying to DVD-R (video mode)


A) In high-speed copy : The chapter markers you have set manually are copied over, there is no auto chapter settings active !


B) In real-time copy : The chapter markers you have set are NOT copied over but auto chapters are inserted if YOU have it switched on in the SETUP.


When copying to a DVD-RW


A) if it is initilaized as a video mode DVD, then the above applies


B) if it is initialized as a VR mode DVD, then your manuallu set chapter markers ARE copied.


Is this better


erick

 

[zenith2525]

Yes, that post does help to summarize this topic Erick .... thank you.


Now I will move on to experimenting with divided content (edited out commercials) and see if I can somehow eliminate the slight pauses at the edit points upon playback. Have you tried this yourself Erick? Made any high-speed dubs to dvd-r (video mode) of televised content you recorded and then removed commercials from?

 

[kacang]

I did a couple :


one was snow queen from hallmark, and did some editing, but I can't recall if I high-speed copy it or not, ill check.


I did some high-speed copying of movies yesterday where I set the chapter marks manually, but I haven't check the results, i'll do tonight when I get home.


I am in Asia so here is 13:40 afternoon



Cheers,


erick