[bnbhoha]

Pioneer 533: looks promising; however, I sure do miss my Panny E100 though. 533 is easy to use but here are my gripes and comments (I read most of them here on the boards and have confirmed). I have several questions towards the bottom. As always, thank you.

Pros:

-easy to use and very self explanatory.

-affordable

-dual layer capable

-DV in for camcorder

-uses –rw discs in video compatible mode (wish it did all/most formats though)


Cons:-no frame accurate editing for video mode. When you cut commercials or segments, it does it in half second increments. My Panny was frame my frame and still let you do high speed dubbing. This also goes for adding chapter markers, they can’t be frame accurate added in video mode (if you do and dub during high speed, they will be off).


-no chapter marker button on remote; have to go to edit button and add markers. Also it doesn’t automatically insert chapter markers when doing high speed mode (my panny didn’t either though) But at least there was a button on the remote to easily do it.


-they say your thumbnail pics may not be accurate when doing high speed dubs


-no show menu at start of disc option. Panny gave you an option to start the disc with or w/o the menu.


-cheesy thumbnail background menus


-Genres: does anybody even use this in the edit menu? I don’t think it was even worth putting it in.


Concerns:

Composite may not look nice as s-video in for VHS recordings:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=567141
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=570954




Questions:

Chapter Markers:


1a. how do I add chapter markers; I don’t see an option to add chapter markers, is it the divide button in the chapter edit menu? *It’s my understanding that the 533 does not automatically add chapter points during high speed dubbing and that you would have to manually add them.



1b. How do I delete the chapter markers after erasing a section (like a commercial which also adds a chapter marker). Do I have to use the combine chapter option?



1c. why would you even want to combine chapters? Just to remove chapter markers? It would be nice to combine titles, which they don’t let you do according to the pop up screen on the TV, but on pg. 72 of the manual, it says you can combine titles. (also pg 83)



1d . Is there a way to jump forward 10-20 minute increments to add chapter markers? Panny had a button where I depressed and I could choose the amount of minutes I wish to go forward, and then I would simply add chapter markers this way. I here the commercial skip can go forward 10 minutes but you would have to depress that button 5 or more times instead of once.



2. 533 remote seems to be controlling my D-Tivo and messing it up eventually making it freeze. How can I change the frequency so it doesn’t control the D-Tivo?



3. How to manual recording differ from flexible recording? Is it basically the same? I don’t see the big deal here?



4. How can I watch the show that it being recorded on the HDD form source. Do I just click rewind while it’s recording?



5. What’s the benefit of recording in VR mode. I hear it’s great for re-authoring on a PC. But aren’t most programs like Tempeg compatible with video mode also? What’s the benefit besides being able to high speed dub the disc back to the HDD.



6. what is multi mode and single mode in the edit menu? It appears that it’s basically a “select button” You select the titles and can delete them all at once. Is there anything else you can do besides deleting items? Pg. 83

 

[probepro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhoha Pioneer 533: looks promising; however, I sure do miss my Panny E100 though. 533 is easy to use but here are my gripes and comments (I read most of them here on the boards and have confirmed). I have several questions towards the bottom. As always, thank you. Pros: -easy to use and very self explanatory. -affordable -dual layer capable -DV in for camcorder -uses –rw discs in video compatible mode (wish it did all/most formats though) Cons:-no frame accurate editing for video mode. When you cut commercials or segments, it does it in half second increments. My Panny was frame my frame and still let you do high speed dubbing. This also goes for adding chapter markers, they can’t be frame accurate added in video mode (if you do and dub during high speed, they will be off). -no chapter marker button on remote; have to go to edit button and add markers. Also it doesn’t automatically insert chapter markers when doing high speed mode (my panny didn’t either though) But at least there was a button on the remote to easily do it. -they say your thumbnail pics may not be accurate when doing high speed dubs -no show menu at start of disc option. Panny gave you an option to start the disc with or w/o the menu. -cheesy thumbnail background menus -Genres: does anybody even use this in the edit menu? I don’t think it was even worth putting it in. Concerns: Composite may not look nice as s-video in for VHS recordings: http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=567141 http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=570954 Questions: Chapter Markers: 1a. how do I add chapter markers; I don’t see an option to add chapter markers, is it the divide button in the chapter edit menu? *It’s my understanding that the 533 does not automatically add chapter points during high speed dubbing and that you would have to manually add them. 1b. How do I delete the chapter markers after erasing a section (like a commercial which also adds a chapter marker). Do I have to use the combine chapter option? 1c. why would you even want to combine chapters? Just to remove chapter markers? It would be nice to combine titles, which they don’t let you do according to the pop up screen on the TV, but on pg. 72 of the manual, it says you can combine titles. (also pg 83) 1d . Is there a way to jump forward 10-20 minute increments to add chapter markers? Panny had a button where I depressed and I could choose the amount of minutes I wish to go forward, and then I would simply add chapter markers this way. I here the commercial skip can go forward 10 minutes but you would have to depress that button 5 or more times instead of once. 2. 533 remote seems to be controlling my D-Tivo and messing it up eventually making it freeze. How can I change the frequency so it doesn’t control the D-Tivo? 3. How to manual recording differ from flexible recording? Is it basically the same? I don’t see the big deal here? 4. How can I watch the show that it being recorded on the HDD form source. Do I just click rewind while it’s recording? 5. What’s the benefit of recording in VR mode. I hear it’s great for re-authoring on a PC. But aren’t most programs like Tempeg compatible with video mode also? What’s the benefit besides being able to high speed dub the disc back to the HDD. 6. what is multi mode and single mode in the edit menu? It appears that it’s basically a “select button†You select the titles and can delete them all at once. Is there anything else you can do besides deleting items? Pg. 83

Wow, so many questions from someone who's not new to DVRs. I suggest you spend some more time with the manual and the recorder, and you will have your answers. That's what the rest of us did.

 

[doxtorRay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhoha -no chapter marker button on remote; have to go to edit button and add markers. Also it doesn’t automatically insert chapter markers when doing high speed mode (my panny didn’t either though) But at least there was a button on the remote to easily do it.

I hate the lack of that button. It seems small, but it really makes a difference (even if it isnt frame-accurate, it gets you close to where you want to be when editing).

Quote:

-Genres: does anybody even use this in the edit menu? I don’t think it was even worth putting it in.

One use for Genres-- My wife has dozens of tapes of the same show. While I'm transferring to DVD, she wants me to sort them by season, but the tapes don't give any indication of season. So I dump them onto the hard drive and sort them out as I divide them. I don't want to indicate the season in the title, so I do it by genre. (89-90=diamond, 90-91=heart, etc.)

Quote:

1a. how do I add chapter markers; I don’t see an option to add chapter markers, is it the divide button in the chapter edit menu? *It’s my understanding that the 533 does not automatically add chapter points during high speed dubbing and that you would have to manually add them.

Yep, you have to go through chapter edit (which is seven button pushes after selecting the program in the Navigator, I believe). Then, you have to look at the program in the tiny chapter edit screen. Fortunately, you can advance the time using commercial skip or use time search.

Quote:

1b. How do I delete the chapter markers after erasing a section (like a commercial which also adds a chapter marker). Do I have to use the combine chapter option?

Yep, otherwise those chapter marks just stay there, which might not be bad if the commercial breaks were chosen with some care (by the show's editor).

Quote:

1c. why would you even want to combine chapters? Just to remove chapter markers? It would be nice to combine titles, which they don’t let you do according to the pop up screen on the TV, but on pg. 72 of the manual, it says you can combine titles. (also pg 83)

You can combine titles (or chapters) in the copy list. This is handy on rare occasions (especially when you want to do some non-linear editing). I have some VCR tapes on which partial episodes of a TV show or movie got recorded. Using this, I can assemble a whole show.

Quote:

1d . Is there a way to jump forward 10-20 minute increments to add chapter markers? Panny had a button where I depressed and I could choose the amount of minutes I wish to go forward, and then I would simply add chapter markers this way. I here the commercial skip can go forward 10 minutes but you would have to depress that button 5 or more times instead of once.

Commercial skip or time search (page 61-62 in the manual). Alas, to set chapters, you must be in chapter edit.


Quote:

2. 533 remote seems to be controlling my D-Tivo and messing it up eventually making it freeze. How can I change the frequency so it doesn’t control the D-Tivo?

Page 96 of the manual. Go to HOME MENU-> inital set-up -> Options -> Remote Control

Quote:

3. How to manual recording differ from flexible recording? Is it basically the same? I don’t see the big deal here?

You can set a manual recording for 2hrs, 30 min, but actually record for longer than that (flexible recording on the Panny would stop at the time you set) That way, if the show is 2 hours, 30 minutes with commercials removed, but 3 hours with the commercial shown, you can record the whole show, remove the commercials and get the whole thing on a DVD with best quality.


Quote:

4. How can I watch the show that it being recorded on the HDD form source. Do I just click rewind while it’s recording?

just click play (it will start playing from the start of the last recording by default, or the last thing you were watching). You can fast forward and reverse while playing, or pause.

Quote:

5. What’s the benefit of recording in VR mode. I hear it’s great for re-authoring on a PC. But aren’t most programs like Tempeg compatible with video mode also? What’s the benefit besides being able to high speed dub the disc back to the HDD.

That's it.

Quote:

6. what is multi mode and single mode in the edit menu? It appears that it’s basically a “select button†You select the titles and can delete them all at once. Is there anything else you can do besides deleting items? Pg. 83

You can also lock and unlock them as a group. Don't underestimate the value of locking. It has saved me from throwing away stuff with a careless automatic button click.

 

[squonk]

bnbhoha

"1c. why would you even want to combine chapters? Just to remove chapter markers? It would be nice to combine titles, which they don’t let you do according to the pop up screen on the TV, but on pg. 72 of the manual, it says you can combine titles. (also pg 83)"



I find that combine chapters when editing on the copylist is very useful to correct a mistake made in dividing a chapter at the wrong point, or if you simply change your mind about where you want to divide a chapter.


I highly recommend doing all editing from the copylist, not directly on the hard drive. That way, if you screw up something on the copy list, you are not irrevocably altering the hard drive original content.


You need to use these things for awhile and the relative advantages and disadvantages will become more readily apparent. The lack of that chapter mark button was a big mistake by Pioneer though.

 

[bnbhoha]

Thank you doxtorRay & Squonk for your time. I read the manual twice and played with the machine for a couple of hours and read several threads here and had some ideas but couldn't make total sense out of it. My questions have been answered and I feel I know the machine well now. I'm starting to like the 533 more and more. I now am a huge fan of manual recording. My next step is to learn the copylist feature. I've never used it on the Panny and it appears to be a nice tool.


This may be the last question:

-on copylists, you say you can make your edits here and they will not affect the original segment on the hard drive. So, I can add separate chapter markers, delete chapter markers and delete stuff from the titles etc w/o messing the orginal content up? Seems to good to be true. I will read up on this when I get home. Thank you

 

[doxtorRay]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhoha This may be the last question: -on copylists, you say you can make your edits here and they will not affect the original segment on the hard drive. So, I can add separate chapter markers, delete chapter markers and delete stuff from the titles etc w/o messing the orginal content up? Seems to good to be true. I will read up on this when I get home. Thank you

Yes, it is true. And it is good. You can do pretty much anything in a copy list that you can do by editing the original recording. You can even combine sections of different recordings together to make one. All without actually affecting your original recording.

Also, a copy list "stays" until you use it or create a new one. So, you can do some editing, cut commercials, put in chapters, etc. in the copy list. Then, record something else on the hard drive, then come back and work some more on the copy list, go to bed, get up the next day and modify the copy list some more, then burn your DVD based on the copy list. If you want, you can then make another DVD from the same copy list. As long as you don't delete the program that the copy list is based on, and don't create a different copy list, you can make a DVD from the copy list.


The only trick to remember is that you edit a program in a copy list by selecting the title and clicking the "ENTER" button on the remote. This is a different procedure from editing the actual recording on the hard drive. Other than that, the choices and processes are pretty much the same.

 

[bnbhoha]

No luck w/ the remote. Manual says press return and then hold down either 1,2, or 3.

1 is the default setting. I did 2 & 3 and nothing happens; the remote is rendered useless. Then I revert back to 1 and it works again, but it still controls the D-Tivo. The D-Tivo remote does not control the 533. I figured I would go change the Tivo remote, but I don't see the option in the menus?


When you press return, you are to hold down either 1,2,3 and wait untill the red light comes on and then let go (that's what I'm doing) and it's not working Any suggestions?


+

Since I'm here, I might as well ask one more question that's bugging me.

On the Panny's and I believe most other recorder, you could record 2 hours and 8-10 minutes on a dvd-r in SP mode (no flexilbe recording mode needed). Now that we have manual mode on the Pioneer, 2:10 would be set at MN20, which is 130 minutes. Let's say I didn't set it at MN20 and just used SP mode, would I still be able to get the 2 hours & 8-10 minutes on a dvd-r? If so, which method would be ideal? Thanks

 

[probepro]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhoha No luck w/ the remote. Manual says press return and then hold down either 1,2, or 3. 1 is the default setting. I did 2 & 3 and nothing happens; the remote is rendered useless. Then I revert back to 1 and it works again, but it still controls the D-Tivo. The D-Tivo remote does not control the 533. I figured I would go change the Tivo remote, but I don't see the option in the menus? When you press return, you are to hold down either 1,2,3 and wait untill the red light comes on and then let go (that's what I'm doing) and it's not working Any suggestions? + Since I'm here, I might as well ask one more question that's bugging me. On the Panny's and I believe most other recorder, you could record 2 hours and 8-10 minutes on a dvd-r in SP mode (no flexilbe recording mode needed). Now that we have manual mode on the Pioneer, 2:10 would be set at MN20, which is 130 minutes. Let's say I didn't set it at MN20 and just used SP mode, would I still be able to get the 2 hours & 8-10 minutes on a dvd-r? If so, which method would be ideal? Thanks

Worked for me, but took two attempts to get it to work. If I recall, I first changed the default setting in the Initial Setup, then change the remote.

 

[HealeyGuy]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhoha On the Panny's and I believe most other recorder, you could record 2 hours and 8-10 minutes on a dvd-r in SP mode (no flexilbe recording mode needed). Now that we have manual mode on the Pioneer, 2:10 would be set at MN20, which is 130 minutes. Let's say I didn't set it at MN20 and just used SP mode, would I still be able to get the 2 hours & 8-10 minutes on a dvd-r? If so, which method would be ideal? Thanks

Because DVD recorders use Variable Bit Rate encoding the manual mode setting shows a very close estimate of how much will fit on a single-layer DVD. Some programs (such as some letterboxed shows I've recorded) actually get several minutes more recording to the available disc space than is shown. Most do not. If you record to the HDD at a setting that doesn't fit a DVD you can copy the video in real time at a different setting that does fit. Or you can split the Title and copy to more than one DVD. Or you can burn to DL media. Or you can re-record the program from its sources at a setting that fits. My recommendation is to be conservative and use a recorder setting you're confident will fit the DVD.


By the way, a nice benefit of VR-mode discs is they essentially expand the size of your hard drive. A 15-pack of DVD-RW may cost about $30 which adds the equivalent of over 60 GB of storage. That's a pretty good deal.


You need to change the remote setting in the Setup menu before changing the remote code.

 

[bnbhoha]

You guys are great; it worked. Thanks

 

[bnbhoha]

"The only trick to remember is that you edit a program in a copy list by selecting the title and clicking the "ENTER" button on the remote. This is a different procedure from editing the actual recording on the hard drive. Other than that, the choices and processes are pretty much the same"



Sorry to resurrect this thread:

For the life of me, I can't figure out how to start a copylist. Pg 66 & 67 of the manual talk about it but do not tell you how to do it. Pg 78 says something about creating a playlist; I haven't tried this yet but will when I get home from work. I skimmed through the manual three times and no luck. I even went to the recorders setup/menu options and did not see it. Wow, I feel like I'm losing it. Please direct me the right way. After this, I will almost have the recorder buttons/navigation mastered. Thank you.

 

[squonk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnbhoha "The only trick to remember is that you edit a program in a copy list by selecting the title and clicking the "ENTER" button on the remote. This is a different procedure from editing the actual recording on the hard drive. Other than that, the choices and processes are pretty much the same" Sorry to resurrect this thread: For the life of me, I can't figure out how to start a copylist. Pg 66 & 67 of the manual talk about it but do not tell you how to do it. Pg 78 says something about creating a playlist; I haven't tried this yet but will when I get home from work. I skimmed through the manual three times and no luck. I even went to the recorders setup/menu options and did not see it. Wow, I feel like I'm losing it. Please direct me the right way. After this, I will almost have the recorder buttons/navigation mastered. Thank you.

Assuming the 533 is essentially the same as the 520 which I have, it's pretty simple.

You have content on the hard drive you want to burn to DVD.

1. you go to home menu and hit "copy"


2. You select HDD to DVD


3. All the titles on the HDD will appear


4. You select what titles you want to ADD to the copy list (you enter add on any title you want to put on a DVD)


5. The added title will appear below on the DVD section. That is now a title on the copy list. It is also still on the hard drive above. You can now use the menu to divide, edit chapters, erase sections, make new chapters etc. Everything you do on the copy list won't alter at all the original content on the hard drive. You can delete, erase, divide to you heart's content.


6. When you are ready to copy to dvd, look in the menu for "CONFIRM" the copy list. It will then go to a screen where you set your recording speed, and it will tell you whether the content you want to record will fit on the DVD at the speed you selected. Obviously, you want to high speed dub if possible.


7. You hit START and it begins copying. You can also copy from DVD to HDD the same way.


Honestly, this is probably the most essential function of the DVD recorder. I can't understand why a few minutes with the manual wouldn't allow you to figure this. If in fact they changed the how to record using copylists on the new Pioneers, or for some reason made the instruction manual more confusing, that would be another step back from the x20 series, but I can't believe such an essential function would be that much different on the new ones vs last years model.


Glad to help out but you really do have to spend some time with the manual and remote and just go through the various menus.

 

[doxtorRay]

squonk:

The interface for the 531/533/633 is completely different from the 520 interface. However, you still start by selecting HOME MENU-> COPY

You get a list of the content on your hard drive. As you scroll the list of titles, each title's thumbnail is displayed, one at time, in the bottom of the screen (this is a big difference from the 520--the 520's display is more useful in my opinion. You can't pick a recording by looking for it's thumbnail, but you have to scan, one at a time, through all the titles to find the one with the thumbnail you want).

You hit the ENTER key to add that title to your copy list.

When you have all the titles you want to copy, you hit the RIGHT ARROW key.

If you have more content than will fit on a disc (as will happen if you intend to cut commercials out before burning the DVD), the Pioneer will try to talk you into changing the copy mode to re-encode the material. Make sure you say "no, don't reencode" but "yes, I know it is more stuff than will fit on a DVD." This is Pioneer's way of saying "you are an idiot, so we'll let this recorder think for you, OK?" JUST SAY "NO, I am not an idiot." Oh, but you also have to say "yes, I know what I'm doing may destroy civilization, but it's OK."


Now, you have a list of titles which may or may not fit on a DVD as they are. You have TWO OPTIONS

A) If you just want them on a DVD as is, hit the RIGHT ARROW button again, and you are off.

B) If you want to move (re-order) or edit them, you have to select a title in your list and hit the ENTER key. You will then be presented with options, such as setting thumbnails, changing names, dividing, chapter editing, erase section, and moving.


The 531/533/633 interface is a lot more clunky. For example, on the 520, you can add a title to the copy list, edit that title, and then add another title. All of this would occur in the same window (and you would only leave that window for the actual editing or previewing of items on the list). In the 531/533/633, making a list, editing items on that list, and adding more programs to that list are all very separate operations, each using a different kind of screen and (in most cases) different buttons, menus, and displays. You can pretty much do all the same things, it just may take more button presses, and there is no "one screen for everything" interface as there was on the 520/420 and 510.

 

[squonk]

doxtorRay:


Yea, I probably should not have ventured to answer that one since I don't have the 533, but I figured Pioneer couldn't have changed the copylist function that much could they have? Well, I guess they did. Perplexing to say the least, and another + mark for the x20 series. That's why its kind of amusing to read these threads where the owners of the newer recorders want to proclaim from the highest mountaintop, "My recorder is superior to your old outdated one in ALL respects!" And here I thought I was helping a new 533 owner.

I would say to new owners that, clunkier or not, it is useful to edit from the copylist rather than the hard drive as noted above.

 

[bnbhoha]

Thank you. I will lay this thread to rest now